1/8″ deep floor damage/ worth sanding?
user-51823
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This is a continuation of my other thread on kitchen floor water damage, but I need answers asap on this new question…
Have started to pull up the oak planks and it appears that the black discoloration is uniformly about 1/8″ deep, or just shy that.
Is it worth sanding further? It’s cheap to rent the sander for another 4 hrs, and worth it to me if I can sand the wood. The planks are in better shape than I expected and their placement makes it a real pain to have to replace.
All answers and opinions welcome! urgent, as the time to decide is right now… Thanks!
Edited 3/30/2009 11:08 am ET by msm-s
Replies
I'd say not. If you do the install and finishing, and oak floor is not that expensive.
Now, I don't know how many square ft we're talking here, but I would consider pulling up at least all the damaged area and possibly the whole floor..........
Thanks, but I'd like the specifics of your preference on sanding vs replacing.
If negatives about sanding down 1/8" are only a matter of time involved, I'm okay with that. If Having the floor that much lower would create a big problem, then I'd like to know what it is. I can build up the poly coat a little deeper there, around the sink, if I need to.You can see a photo at the other thread, titled "ASAP! Hope for water damaged oak floor?"FYI- here's a comment from the other thread I posted regarding my liking the old imperfect floor:
"I'm okay with a floor that has some character and history; if I had wanted a perfect floor, I would have bought new. So the fact that some areas are laid perpendicular to most of the floor, and the odd old scars here and there, and the presence of lots of nails with different sized heads lends "charm", IMO.
Doubtless, future owners of this house will disagree with me, LOL, but I'm not selling any time soon and they can replace it with anything they want. who knows, some may even find it as charming as I do."The worst part, to me, of the water damage is the amoeba-shaped line that defines the black wood-- hard to disguise that it was water damage, which is something not pleasing to look at. Aside that, I like seeing that the floor is the original, with various quirks and imperfections, so I have no desire to replace the whole thing. FYI, the kitchen is roughly 20' x 11 1/2'
If the floor is 3/4 thick at 1/8 (+-) you may be getting close to the toung & grooves especially if someone else has sande it previously.
I told you how I would deal with it based on my image which was based on the info you have provided. I saw your other thread yesterday.
You deal with it as you see fit.
The planks appear to have never been sanded since installation nearly 80 yrs ago and are closer to 7/8" thick. Removing 1/8" wouldn't get precariously close to the grooves.
Thanks for your opinion- I'm just trying to find out all I can and consider all the options.
Dude....there comes a time when all the "is it worth its" add up to.....no. It isn't.
Sounds to me as though this floor has paid its dues.
I'm a big admirer of the character an old home and its finishings posess.....but at some point it's time to replace. Sound (looks) to me as though it is that time for this particular floor.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Am trying to get the pictures loaded now so you can see the rest of the kitchen at this point.To recap: the entire floor (roughly 20' x 11 1/2' has been sanded, and looks great, imperfections and all, except the area of bad water damage which extends approximately 27" out front of the sink and 128" left to right.
This area is all I need to deal with. It's already proving to be a pain to get the first board out. Frankly, I don't see sanding it as that big a job, IF shaving another 1/8" off won't cause other problems. I'm not aiming to do 4 x the work just to get the "rustic" look; I pointed out that I like it to clarify that I am not interested in replacing the whole thing to get it "perfect".
On the other hand, I'm totally willing to work hard on it. I may be a girl, but I'm pretty strong (and stubborn).
Replace it... You have to not only sand out the damage, but "feather" it out in such a way that you don't have a pronounced dip or edge in the floor, just not worth the effort for what's likely to be a mediocre result anyway. PaulB
http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com
http://www.finecontracting.com
Re-sized for easier viewing...
I'd replace the damaged section, plus it would give you an opportunity to replace that patched section in the foreground where the boards run 90 degrees to the rest of the floor.
View Image
thanks for resizing. Good news from bad news- Just checked with the cabinet guy and my cabinets are going to be about 2 weeks late. I'd be bummed, except that this buys me time to properly resolve the floor problem I didn't know I had until yesterday.I completely understand the dislike among most of youse perfectionist guys for the 90 degree patch. fact is, in this historic neighborhood, many people have left similar Ghosts of old walls, and some, in surprisingly nice houses, have left it as a nasty plywood patch... it's acceptable and even enjoyed around here to be able to identify where there was originally a breakfast nook, a porch, etc. And again, I really like the interest it adds anyway.Given the extra 2 weeks I now have, I probably will replace the wood, but I won't feather it into the odd 90 degree patch for the old wall, as well as the adjacent strip where there had been a threshold originally. I am so angry with myself that I didn't manage to rip out more flooring from my old house. All I have left is the few short boards at top of photo. thanks for talking me through this!
Edited 3/30/2009 1:41 pm ET by msm-s
I completely understand the dislike among most of youse perfectionist guys for the 90 degree patch. fact is, in this historic neighborhood, many people have left similar Ghosts of old walls, and some, in surprisingly nice houses, have left it as a nasty plywood patch... it's acceptable and even enjoyed around here to be able to identify where there was originally a breakfast nook, a porch, etc. And again, I really like the interest it adds anyway.
I'm not a perfectionist by any means, but when I went through this same thing in my 1913 house I decided that if I was going to look at that floor for the rest of my life I was going to fix all of it. :) On the other hand, in my house the floor damage was caused by the previous owner's dog, so it HAD to come out...they left it locked in the house during the day while they were at work, and over the years it lifted its leg enough times to mark the outline of most every piece of furniture in the house. Yuk.
Yuk, yeah, in your case I'm sure I would have done the same thing. Pee stains bring no joy.
Most of my kitchen floor looks so good, I'd consider it criminal to waste all that nice hardwood though. and the artist in me appreciates the interest the decent patchesgive. I like looking at them. I'm sort of the opposite of you- I figured, if I have to look at this floor the next X years, I'd like it to retain the charm instead of being all new. Every time I'll walk over that old strip where the threshold was between the small kitchen and the breakfast nook, I'll feel so happy having a kitchen twice as big as the original!
I didn't read your other thread about this, so maybe already covered. But is there hidden mold n mildew issues in the water damaged area, UNDER the boards?Besides possible visible and noticeable feathered "dip" in the floor, will the height difference mess up your cabinet heights?Visually I already do not like the infilled perpendicular boards shown in the photo.Just my $0.02
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
what Eric says with perhaps a different angle...
remove the blackened portion and replace it with a different type or color of oak..
install an accent in lieu of a complete make over...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ya know, that had already occurred to me also: like maybe bamboo. Now that I am leaning towards replacement, it's still something to consider...PS- the new kitchen is going to look more contemporary than the rest of the house. Minimalistic with flat slab cabinets, streamline door pulls, recessed lighting, etc The "rustic" floor (LOL) helps tie it in to the rest of the house which still has lovely unpainted wide 1920's wood molding. Have been wanting to use bamboo somewhere...
Edited 3/30/2009 1:50 pm ET by msm-s
don't tear anything up...
do a cork inlay or another type of wood...Have router will travel...
Edited 3/30/2009 1:54 pm by IMERC
Hmmmmmmm...
ok,so you got some time,heres what i'd do.
take a crcular saw ,set it to cut 3/4 and rip down the board about 3' out [far enough to catch the patch laying oppsite direction] tear everything out back to cabinets edge,it will tear out easy after the first board.
and go to hd or where ever and buy 50.00 worth of wood and do it right.
then get you a orbital sander and sand the heck out of it all,your done.
i know you say you don't need it perfect,but i gurantee you with all new cabinets,tops etc,you will want it looking as nice as possible.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
Agreed. now that I've got some time and have heard all the pros and cons from you all, that makes the most sense.PS- re perfection: I didn't mean that I didn't care if the patch was good; I meant that I didn't want the whole floor to be replaced and be brand new.
Edited 3/30/2009 5:25 pm ET by msm-s
My 2 cents worth, I agree with alwaysoverbudget.
Take the time since the cabinets are out two weeks to replace the damaged and weave in a replacement for the 90 degree patch. You said you didn't mind a floor with character, there is character then there is craftsmanship. Maybe the other homes in your area with patches not woven in were done by people who didn't care. Like I said there is character then there is ignorance or laziness, ignorance is defensible laziness is not. You seem to care enough to do the work yourself, why not do the best job possible.
I know that it seems a lot of work and tedious because you could possibly damage adjacent wood but once you get going its not so bad.
If you want to build character do the repair right and then walk on it for a while or bing it, antique it whatever then do a light screening then finish, might help the new to blend with the old.
Webby
Edited 3/30/2009 5:31 pm ET by webby
So- Route a line for the area to be removed (I was even thinking of a wide arc if I do bamboo), and remove? Please instruct. thanks-
I'm more partial to traditional hardwoods and cork..
have a look see at these links...Please instruct is a fairly broad request...
can ya narrow that down???http://www.inlay.com/marquetry/wood_inlay_part1.htmlhttp://www.czarfloors.com/http://www.premierinlays.com/
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
LOL- I mean, you mentioned not ripping anything out. So, maybe without detail, just 'splain to me what steps come next?
Meanwhile I'll check the links-
basically use a router with a mortise bit to remove material to form a pocket to receive the inlay....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
BTW- My father used to piddle with inly, but not directly onto an existing floor. I know what inlay is and how it's don as a craft or on furniture, but I'm not sure what method of laying in you are suggesting in my case.
the process is pretty much the same....
the links were fer ideas...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
ideas; okay thanks. Beautiful ideas therre, but I'm going for simple, as long as it looks intentional. It just seemed to me that to use a router to clean out all that area was, well, more work than just cutting the outline and removing it all. could lay in some diamond board, or concrete tub surround or sumpin' like that, cut it to fit, and lay out my new flooring to fit on that. Does that sound like a plan? A sound plan?
use the router to cut the outline...
mind the nails...never thought it to be much work to cut out for an inlay....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
maybe this will take you to the search page...http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7TSHB&q=hardwood+floor+inlays&revid=534818714&ei=UwzRSbzOJpPslQeG1bjjCQ&sa=Xoi=revisions_inline&resnum=0ct=broad-revision&cd=4
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Been scanning but so far, I'm seeing beautiful products for sale and lots of history, but nothing yet on how *I* would DIY my floor...
My contractor just emailed me a good source for the wood I'll need for patch- the pantry has same boards, but they too are under nasty glued layers of vinyl. he'll come rip off the vinyl and I'll scavange the wood. Was going to do tile in there anyway.Sorry to be so stubborn, but again, I'm sticking with the 90 angle, and not due to laziness or lack of know-how. I just prefer this quirky patch although I understand all your arguments. I'm going to live here at least 7 more years so my son will still have a 3 minute walk to school until the school stops at 8th grade, and crazy me, I'm going to enjoy looking at that ghost. If I was flipping this house now, I'd fix it your way :-)
if someone has already mentioned it i apologise but if the black is from the tanins and water you can bleach it out with a solution of oxalic acid.
If you look in the photo, there are some lighter planks that the bleach did work on yesterday. It still wasn't a good color and there remained a few other problems.
A friend emailed me discussing this problem... considering just faux painting the damage back to clean oak! LOL
I would remove the flooring in the area I marked with the red line and replace it.
Just remove enough so it can't be seen under the cabinet if desired... but that may bite you in the future if further changes are made. If it was me, I would tear it all out under the cabinet.
Use the existing patch of perpendicular boards as they are now- a break in the pattern. If you remove them, you will still be left with a straight line unless you tear up more and weave it in.
There is still a single board to the left of the five or so running the wrong direction. Even if you remove the five (+/-), the amount of added work to weave in a "proper" patch won't change that one board... and it doesn't look like any of the five line up with it. If one or two of those patch boards are discolored, pull them out. If you like the rest of them, then leave 'em.
Do not leave the stained area- it looks bad. You will regret it.
I would suspect you will have to sand the new down to match the old. Maybe it can be planed down first to get close.
You get to keep the other 75% of the floor as is. :)
View Image
Edited 3/30/2009 6:10 pm ET by danski0224
I think the cat is guilty looking.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Well, duh :)
Mine look guilty all the time.
That's why they are called "cats" and not "dogs".
:)
He's not the guilty one. His sister Wanda is constantly framing him.
His sister Wanda is constantly framing him.
But of course....it's ALWAYS the woman.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Knew you guys would appreciate the gimme :-)
That's exactly the area I'm going to have to redo, in the red box. I am keeping the 90 degree patch, as well as the single 90 degree splice that marks the old doorway between original kit and breakfast nook. I know it can be feathered and if I preferred it, I'm obsessive enough to go to all the trouble to do it. Luckily I like it as is :-)