Replies

1. 
   DanH | Feb 06, 2006 07:36pm | #1

   You need three insulated wires plus a ground for a new dryer installation.

   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

2. 
   webby | Feb 06, 2006 09:21pm | #2

   Like Danh said Pnut,

   Driers commonly use at  least 10/3 with ground. Also you probably realize that there is a specific thirty amp receptacle used for driers.

   A dryer requires 240 volts. A 240 volt appliance like a dryer requires a two pole or double breaker. Breakers are sized to protect the wire not the device ie. 12/2 gets a singlepole 120 volt breaker rated at 20 amp. So 10/3 wg would require a double breaker rated at 30 amp.

   10/3 wg has black, red, white, and ground conductors.

   If you are still confused its better to consult an electrician or at least a handy man. Electrical panels are nothing to mess with if you are unsure of how they work.

   Webby

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/6/2006 1:27 pm ET by webby

1. 
   Pnut | Feb 06, 2006 09:54pm | #3

   Thanks all for the replies.  I appreciate it.

2. 
   DanH | Feb 06, 2006 09:58pm | #4

   It should be explained that this standard changed about 25 years back, which is why I said "new installation". Used to be you only needed two insulated wires and the ground, so existing 3-pin outlets are "grandfathered in", but any new stove or dryer outlet you install must have the three insulated wires, and the socket on the end should be a 4-pin socket.If the dryer (or stove) only has a 3-pin plug you can buy a replacement "pigtail" at your local hardware store or appliance dealer. You have to go into the unit and remove the "bonding" between the ground and neutral, but this is straight-forward in most cases -- the bond strap has been standard for maybe 40 years. (In a few cases, where there is no 120V requirement in the dryer, the white neutral may be just left unconnected, but modern dryers are apt to need 120V for electronic controls, so there's generally a terminal.)In the breaker panel the white neutral is connected to the neutral bus and the bare ground to the ground bus. In some cases there's only one bus and you connect both wires to it. But even though both wires may be connected together at the far end, you still need all four wires -- it's not some "stupid detail" of the code but rather there is a very good safety reason for doing it this way.

   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

1. 
   rasconc | Feb 06, 2006 10:34pm | #5

   You might clarify that you are talking about adding or installing a new circuit and receptacle for such appliance.  One could misread that you would have to upgrade if you replaced a three hole dryer or range receptacle.  Good explaination of how it is supposed to be.

1. 
   DanH | Feb 06, 2006 10:43pm | #6

   I tried to make that clear, but maybe didn't. But as a basic rule of thumb, if you're pulling in new wire from panel to outlet this would be a "new" installation, and the new rules apply.Simply installing a new dryer or stove doesn't (yet) trigger a change. The installer will generally know how to replace the pigtail if needed to adapt to the older style outlet. (They should really do this for free, or the cost of the pigtail, but likely they're going to charge you $50 or so.)

   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

1. 
   rasconc | Feb 07, 2006 02:04am | #7

   I knew what was going on.  Almost every one of those appliances I have seen lately comes without the cord.  Just bought two ranges for kids, been involved with at least four dryers recently and all come bare.  Just trying to make sure someone did not get the wrong idea. 

   Most delivery/installs will include moving the cord from old to new at least for now.

   Cheers, Bob

   Edited 2/6/2006 6:06 pm ET by rasconc

3. 
   McDesign | Feb 07, 2006 02:52pm | #8

   I got a LOT of discussion on my installation of just such a wire a couple of weeks ago (thread is something like "Need electrical absolution". 

   In my area (near Atlanta), the local inspection interpretation of NEC allows you to run X-2 for a dryer If and Only Iff your service entrance cable is 3-wire to your distribution panel (no separate ground), and you use the amp-appropriate three-pin plug.  (This also meets local interpretation of code in Arlington, VA and Calvert county, MD, at least as of 2003)

   Having said that, almost everyone here and their brother agreed that X-2 for a dryer was wrong, wrong, and perhaps even morally reprehensible!

   I've changed my dryer wire to X-3, only because my SE cable is 4-wire to my distribution panel, and I wanted people to like me.

   Forrest

1. 
   FrankDuVal | Feb 08, 2006 06:16am | #9

   McDesing:
   Interesting!
   You said "(This also meets local interpretation of code in Arlington, VA and Calvert county, MD, at least as of 2003)".I have never worked in Arlington, but have in Fairfax county and others south of there through Richmond, and the 4 wire system for dryers has been in effect since the 1980's. But it is for new installations, old ones are still wired for 3 wire system.Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

1. 
   McDesign | Feb 08, 2006 02:23pm | #10

   The specific situation was this.  I designed a renovation and addition on my SIL's house on Garfield Ave (It was a Sears 1920's bungalow of 620 square feet).  She, as the homeowner, was allowed to GC the work.  I did the flatwork, framed it, and trimmed it out; all mech work was done by the correct subs and inspected by the appropriate authority.

   The WD had been in a basement; we moved them up into the addition.  The electricians used 10-2, and I even asked the electrical inspector when he came.  He said 2-wire was fine in an existing house, even though the dryer was in a new location, in new construction, and a new distribution panel had been put in - essentially, everything the dryer "saw" with the exception of the meter base, was new.

   Now you can see the depths of my confusion!

   Forrest

1. 
   DanH | Feb 08, 2006 03:17pm | #11

   The guy didn't have any 10/3 in the truck.
   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

2. 
   FrankDuVal | Feb 08, 2006 03:45pm | #12

   McDesign:
   Yes! I can see your confusion. Different inspectors in different areas have different "hot buttons".
   Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.