This is a first for me. Our home is two storey. Wife wants to push out both stories 6′ in the back. We are already planning on putting on a new roof with trusses to replace the flat roof we have now. The wall she wants to push out is a bearing wall, holding up the floor joists of the second floor, so they’d all be 6′ short.
Each floor has two smallish bedrooms, so there’s two spans of 10-12′ each to bridge with a beam to hold up the existing joists and the ends of the new ones. My contractor brother-in-law said “you’ll need some steel to hold up the floor” which I’m open to. My wife said “couldn’t you just run them past each other and bolt them together” to which I said “I don’t think so” but then again I could be wrong on that.
What I’m wondering is what would be a step-by-step plan to get this done with a minimum of disruption to the people who are inhabiting the bedrooms. I thought about building the extra footings, and getting some framing and siding done on the exterior before ripping out the exising exterior wall, but I can’t figure out how to get all the exterior done two stories high without tying in the new floor joists, which would require putting in the new beams.
I have a very basic plan attached (apologies in advance for the primitive “paint” drawing)
How would y’all recommend proceeding?
Replies
step 1- view the movie "the money pit", it probably won't be that bad
step 2- foundation for addition
step 3-strip exterior and pull rim from joists, replace with microlam(s?)
step4- frame addition
step5- tear out existing walls, move windows out, etc
ceilings can be opened back at this point to add hangers to micro/existing joists
the other 5 steps involve check writing
So tell me more about this "microlam" -- is it dimensionally the same size as the rim joist but will hold up the floor (e.g. to substitute for the "steel" that bro-in-law was alluding to)
piffin & deiselpig make good sense, engineer will, or possibly trusss manufacturer might have a program for beams, depending on area. the lvl/microlam thing could be done to eliminate the need for the tempwalls being in the bedrooms for the duration of the project. egress IS a serious issue. pics will help. good luck
Step One: Hire an architect and/or engineer
Step Two: Hire a good general contractor
Step Three: Write the check and get out of the way.
Sorry...but it's the honest answer to "how would you proceed?".
OK, point taken. Of course, we'll be getting permits which will require plans, etc. As far as the GC goes, though, that's going to have to be a DIY job.
I'm glad you see it as advice given in your best interest.
I run a framing outfit, and while I could probably figure out a good prescription, I wouldn't even try it without plans... even on my own home.
Hiring a good architect is the best money you can spend on this sort of thing. Even if you do literally everything else yourself. Once your architect has come up with the structural drawings you need to complete the work, we'll be able to help you a bit more with the actual logistics of making it happen.
Ok... here's the procedure as best I can tell from here:
1. Get you new foundation in and order your trusses.
2. Build temporary bearing walls inside of the walls you want to remove. This is very important. You will most likely need walls to carry the roof down to the cieling joists, the cieling joists down to the second floor joists, the second floor joists down to the first floor joists, and the first floor joists down to the basement... assuming you have one.
3. Frame you new 1st floor and walls
4. Remove enough old work framing to get your new beam installed and leave you room to work. This beam will most likely be "flush framed" and loaded on both sides. One side with the old work, and the other side with the new work. This is more complicated than it sounds because you will probably have to trim back each existing joist to fit to the new beam. Now install your hardware.
5. Frame your second second deck and walls
6. Repeat step four for the second floor wall carrying the ceiling and roof.
7. Tear off old roof and set trusses.
Now you can finish the "dry-in" and be comfortable again. When you have the time, you can remove the rest of the old walls and finish the interior new work.
How's that sound? That's the abbreviated version, of course, but I'll be that will be pretty darn close to how the procedure will go.
Have fun, and good luck. Stick around this forum and you'll get loads of good help and advice from the fellas much smarter than myself. It's a good place to be if you enjoy building stuff. Get a digital camera and you'll get more advice than you'll ever need.
Some of it might even be right! ;)
brian has outlined it very well, especially the parts about building temporary walls insdie the old exterior ones to support the joists and roof in place while you work.
I don't know if I would try this with someone living in those rooms. There will be very hazardous conditions for a few days to several weeks. A DIY job would be several weeks to several months. If anyone sleepwalks, you can count on visiting the hospital...
I might change part of hios advice to usiong an engineer instead of an archy, since you probably think you already know what floorplan you want, but some archies fall way short on structural considerations. The biggest concern here is sizing the beams and planning the point loads to foundation. Your relqatives offhand shotgun approack that it will need some steel is apparantly not thought out very far. It might be done with LVLs, or a flitch/LVL combo, Or it might need a steel I-beam, depending on laods and cost to insert. An engineer can help you decide this.
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More good advise from the sensai!
Thinking more about reasons for not doing while inhabited. There absolutely must be egress from bedrooms in case of fire. odds of fire are greater while work in progress. odds of being able to build those temp walls and still maintain acess to egress while keeping weather out is - let's just say that I'd rather play the lottery
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The people who are inhabiting the bedrooms are going to have to sleep someplace else, but unless the house is tiny, you can probably still inhabit part of it while you work on other parts. No way can you do this kind of massive dusty work and continue to use the rooms.
Figure on having a living room or dining room stuffed full of furniture and used as a bedroom. (You may be able to leave some furniture in the bedrooms, but moved out of the way and wrapped in plastic.) Pack like you were going on a long vacation to the dining room.
Another thing to consider is whether the effort, expense, and disruption are worth it for a gain of only 6 ft. The cost per square foot is way high on small additions like that.
-- J.S.
Regarding the "cost per square foot" thing, my SO and I went around on that a couple of times, and I think it WILL be worth it as:1. we are already planning on a new roof system, so the incremental cost is low.2. we are already planning on all new siding and windows: see incremental cost above.3. the current bedrooms are small - two are just 8 x 12. Those will wind up 14 x 12, over 50% increase in size, and much, much more functional.