Sort of an informal poll here to help settle a bet.
Would you (or do you) operate a 15 amp tool on 100 feet of 12 gauge extension cord?
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Replies
Yup.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "
Me.
Yes, whenever there is a need. Why not, only a 5 volt drop.
Have even run a 50A input, 230A welder at the end of 200 ft of 12AWG romex, no problem as long as the cable is in open air.
yes, but not worth it. I have had this problem using the portable planner and big #### tile saw. Everytime the motor strains it pops the breaker, your overheating the motor, and that will reduce it's life big time! The shorter the cord, and bigger the gauge the better. That's why I put 20 amp exterior plugs on my place ..
Yup - Done it all the time.
If I had to. I hate rolling up 100' cords so I use a combination of 50's and 25's. That way if you only have to be 75' from the source you don't waste the extra voltage drop.
Thanks to you all for the replies. I'm going to need power, and 75' would be perfect. I have a 50 footer already. Mike, you say you use a combo of cords. I didn't even really think about that. Out of curiosity, do connections (i.e. plugging one ext. cord into another) contribute to voltage drop? I would assume they would, but I do not know much about electricity. I just know that I do not want to toast the motor or be popping breakers.
But with that extra plug link, unless the contacts are primo, you lose as much there as in that extra 25' of cord too
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Good thing I keep the contacts in primo condition ;-)
Not only 100', have done 200' when needed.
Not the best but you do what you have to do sometimes.
Tapping into the neighbors again?
Yup, if it's that or get the generator out.
Joe H
Is the tool drawing a full 15 amps, or is it just a regular hand tool like a drill or saw that's running at something less than that?
Even if it is pulling 15 amps, the voltage drop over 100 feet is a little less than 5 per cent; not ideal, but not fatal either.
Stuart, the tool in question is just a saw that pulls 15 amps. What do you mean by "drawing a full 15 amps"? Like I said, I'm pretty dim when it comes to electricity. pun intended of course. <G>
If we knew what the tool was , and just how much "work" it was going to be doing that would help. A skil saw being used to rip a 4x piece of stock is one thing, a skil saw being used to cross cut 1x stock is another. 1/2 drill used to drill 3/4 holes in studs is one thing, being used to bore through a 6x timber with a 3" bit is another.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Edited 6/6/2008 2:24 pm by dovetail97128
Sorry about that, I guess I left that out. Talking about a Milwaukee Tilt-Lock circular saw and a DeWalt 12" miter saw. Both draw 15 amps. Of course they will not be used simultaneously. As far as working the tools, nothing beyond cross-cutting 2x framing lumber and ripping some OSB, cutting some 1x trim on the miter saw.There won't be any LVL ripping going on or anything.
For use like you describe, those tools will not be drawing more than 9-12 amps and the occasional use would not be so hard on them. Using something like a TS or planner in constant use would be the devil.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Stuart, the tool in question is just a saw that pulls 15 amps. What do you mean by "drawing a full 15 amps"? Like I said, I'm pretty dim when it comes to electricity. pun intended of course. <G>
Well, most hand tools are designed to plug into a 15 amp outlet, but that doesn't necessarily mean they need all 15 of those amps when running. For instance, a 3/8" Milwaukee corded drill has a 7 amp motor according to the Milwaukee website, so it's only using about half the 15 amps available. On the other hand, Sawzalls require anything from 11 amps to 15 amps, depending on the size.
Edited 6/6/2008 3:00 pm by Stuart
Yes, and I have and I will again, but I don't like to make it a daily practice.
I have seen the boys burn the plug off an Emglo compressor with a 200' run of 12g.
Carpenters seem to pay little attention to voltage drop. They will run 100' of 12 to the compressor, plug in at a 30 yr old garage outlet. HO shuts garage, goes away for day. Light up compressor; blow breaker. No outside outlets. Now what? (I made up a dongle that used the laundry dryer outlet - 240x30A.)
The informal rule of thumb is go one wire size bigger for each 75' run to keep the voltage drop in limits. 12-10.
I try to use one of my 50' x 10g cords at the start of a run, then branch from there. The Skill 77 has a 30'x 12 AWG cord on it. The Bosch framing saw has whatever I want - usually a 50' x 12 AWG.
The ToolBear
"I am still learning." Goya
I've noticed the same thing. The young guys are always running 100' cords when 25 will do. Then they'll split off of the 100 footer and run a 50 foot cord back toward the temporary service or whatever. I'm not joking. Gets me all wound up. I carry one heavy 100 footer and a passle of 12 gauge 25s. I'd rather deal with 2 25 foot cords than one 50. Then I can split off of them at convenient spots. I usually don't run the compressor off of a long cord. I run a long hose.
I usually don't run the compressor off of a long cord. I run a long hose.@@@Yes, I see them tagging cords on like that. "Boys, it's all additive. The cord doesn't care what direction it goes in."We had a 500' apartment roof this season with 40' mansards both sides. I found a working outlet down below in the breezeway and ran 50' of #10 to the roof for the compressor. Then from 50 to 200' of air hose, plus 50 or 100' of 1/4 eel hose for the guns. 100' of 10g for the saw.Got a double hotdog compressor in the garage full time as it really wants to see a clean 20a on start up. Old work, no way. Had to buy the PC compressor because it would accept less amperage.Our big Emglo wheelbarrow compressor was fun. They would plug it into the job pole and it would arc going in and melt blades. Plug a week. I put a switch on it to solve that problem. Then some dilbert ran 200' of 12g to power it up.The ToolBear
"I am still learning." Goya
Years ago i helped build a church and they ran 200 feet of 14GA wire.
I burnt up 2 wormdrives.
I did not mind working for free but at that time i could not overcome loseing my tools.
This was the only time a wormdrive ever went out on me in my whole career.
however i should have known this
Years ago i helped build a church and they ran 200 feet of 14GA wire.I burnt up 2 wormdrives.@@@The job power for a Habitat project up in Skagit County was 200' of 12g. The farmer that donated the land donated the power out of his barn. The plug at our end was hot. We practiced power management full time. Or we made nice and got the breaker reset, again. (I did not volunteer my power tools here.)Finally got job power. They set a pole, they set a 100 amp panel, they set one duplex outlet. We looked at it in wonder. Five homes to go and one duplex outlet. We will share. We are in Fat City.Another gripe ... Spider box with 5 20A outlets. They are all pigtailed onto one outlet instead of spreading the load.The ToolBear
"I am still learning." Goya
I would.
How many times have you thought twice about how far an outlet was from the panel before plugging in? My guess is that you've plugged into 100'+ of 12 gauge lots of times. That said, if I was going to ADD 100' of #12 cord, I'd wanna be sure there wasn't already 100' in the wall.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Ryan, we do it all the time. I typically run 125' of 10ga from a 20A outlet on a temp service pole. This 10ga cord has two gang boxes of 4 outlets each on it. From there we run 100' and 50' 12ga cords to where ever we're working. Big tools, like the router and table saw, stay on 25' or 50' cords, but wormdrives, sidewinders, drills, recips, etc all run off the 100' 12 ga no problem. My tools always fall apart long before the motors give up.
EDIT: I never run a compressor off any extension cord though. I think that's just asking for trouble. (Unless it's the new Max HP compressor which is designed for it). Our usual compressors are all gas anyway though.... for just this reason.
Edited 6/6/2008 3:13 pm ET by dieselpig
Gotcha. The outlet I'm plugging into is only maybe 20' from the box, and I only need 75' of cord from the outlet. I think I'll make like Mike Maines and pick up 25' of 12 gauge to add to the 50' 12 gauge that I've got now.I just don't want to smoke my Tilt-Lock. I love that saw...Thanks to you all for the help.
Don't worry I have 4 of those models in the shed!
Like diesalpig said, the tools break before the motor goes. Run lots of times at 200' and the tools work.
Ryan, if it makes you feel better I wouldn't blush at running that sidewinder on 100' of 14 guage if you're just doing the usual stuff like ripping ply and cross cutting 2X. View Image
Yeah it does. Thanks. I'm helping a relative and we have 28 rafters to cut. I can either use his POS saw with a bent up, rusted shoe or bring my own.And Joe, what a shame to have 4 of those broke down. The Tilt-Lock saws are about the only sidewinders that I like using. I guess its the angle of the handle when tilted all the way back.
Ryan, I'm a wormdrive or hypoid saw guy myself. But... if I do need to use a sidewinder... that Milwaukee is the one I like. I've owned three or four of them and they've all held up reasonably well and done everything I've asked them to do. Nice saws. My guys like the Dewalt SawCats. View Image
Yeah Milwaukee definitely got that saw right.
you are serious about them likeing the dewalt?
The Mil. is 10x's stronger.
Yup. They like the one that closely resembles the old Black and Decker SawCat. I don't mind either because they seem to be one of (if not the) most durable sidewinders I've ever had. They hold up really well and when they do need to be replaced I can usually find them reconditioned for about $120. View Image
I never really got the whole "power" game with circ saws. I mean, sure I can feel the difference in power between one of my Bosch 77's and one of their sidewinders. But in practice... I never really felt it mattered much. Most pro model circ saws are about 13-15amps... that seems to be plenty of power for anything I've ever done in residential stick framing. It might take a second or two longer to make a compound miter on an LVL hip or something... but it never really mattered much to me. Maybe it's just me. And I'd have to think that regardless of power... the most unproductive move I could make would be to force my guys to use saws that they're not comfortable with just because they're more "powerful". That'd sort of defeat the purpose to me.
I personally like to use two saws right now. I'd been using the Dewalt hypoid framing saw myself for the past couple years and I still really like it. Lately, just for kicks, I tried one of the new Makita hypoids with all the chrome. The guys laugh at it but it's a really comfortable saw to me. It has ergonomics identical to a good ole 77, but is as light as a sidewinder. I really like it.
View Image
Edited 6/6/2008 5:37 pm ET by dieselpig
My personal saw is a PC lefthander. Nobody on the job would touch it.
All the rightys all love that mil.. I can cut with anything, I know it will break and I will get a new one!
that's my favorite saw.
current one was "saved" for nice work for the logest time ...
but now it's been beat into a solid framing saw.
plans for a second one to serve as the "nice saw".
love the depth knob up front.
and someone else beat me to it with the original poster ...
for a compressor run a longer hose, not cord.
I have a crappy orange plastic hose that's used only as the starter for longer runs.
I hate that hose ... but it won't die.
then just run a nice hose off it to snake thru the project.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Edited 6/8/2008 1:27 am ET by JeffBuck
I meant to say 4 motors of that model. Everything else is broke, but hte motors work!
Yeah, when I have to.
Chris
This all explains why my compressor kept tripping the circuit breaker last weekend. Kept thinking it must be the compressor going bad and actually was looking at new compressors this week.Tomorrow should go a whole lot smoother and be a lot less frustrating.Thanks.
All my cords are 12g except 1 10g & a roll of SO 8-4.
Most of them are 100'ers.
& yes I run big amps on them.
Same at work, almost all our cords are 100' 12g. Roto hammers, pipe threaders, plasma cutters, you name it we run it.
Yup
You bet .
yea
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
Occasionally
I have a slew of 10 GA cords though. My basic rule of thumb is anything over 75 feet gets #10
The thing is, you never know how much #12 there is already between the service panel and the receptacle and how well the junctions are done, so you can drop a lot of voltage before you ever plug in. That caught me once and came near ruining a motor.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I think there is a difference in the type of motor involved. Universal motors [the kind that have brushes] are more tolerant of lower voltage; induction motors are not at all.
Universal motors are commonly found in hand held saws, drills, sawzalls, miter saws, portable table saws etc]. Induction motors are commonly used on jobsite tools like large compressors, cement mixers and such as well as shop tools like bigger table saws, shapers, drill presses, jointers, etc.
Thanks to you all for the help. We worked this weekend and the saw ran fine on 100' of 12 ga. I might end up picking up a long 10 gauge cord just for situations like this the next time I have a few bucks in my pocket. Thanks again, I appreciate the help.
Nope !
10 guage!