Replies

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Aug 30, 2009 05:43pm | #1

   Very nice indeed. will it fit though the door?

   Can you give us a pic when installed and finished? The HO should be impressed, are you going to play "Stairway to Heaven" during the install. :)

2. 
   Matt | Aug 30, 2009 11:26pm | #2

   Nice...

   >> I just loaded this stairway with the help of 8 guys. <<  How much you figure that monster weighs?  Seems like some kind of heavy equipment would be on your "to self:" Christmas list.  Must be hard to get 8 guys to show up all at the same time on a dependable basis...

3. 
   Scott | Aug 31, 2009 05:31am | #3

   Very nice. That will certainly add some "Wow" factor to the house. I really like the rhythm of the balusters.

   Scott.

1. 
   StanFoster | Sep 01, 2009 01:11am | #4

   I set this in place today.  It took 10 guys to lower this pig into the hole.   

    

   Stan

1. 
   Scott | Sep 01, 2009 06:49am | #5

   Sweet. Now let's hope the finishing crew doesn't drop too many hammers, or tromp with muddy boots, or dogs with long toenails....etc. With all your experience, you must have contract language to deal with risk exposure.Scott.

   Edited 8/31/2009 11:50 pm by Scott

1. 
   Huck | Sep 03, 2009 01:43am | #6

   Sweet. Now let's hope the finishing crew doesn't drop too many hammers, or tromp with muddy boots, or dogs with long toenails....etc. With all your experience, you must have contract language to deal with risk exposure.

   "Contract language"??  Uh, well, we know he does have "jobsite language" to deal with the above!  =)  View Image bakersfieldremodel.com

1. 
   Scott | Sep 03, 2009 03:39am | #7

   LOL, yup.

4. 
   Dreamcatcher | Sep 03, 2009 05:18pm | #8

   Very sweet, Stan!

   I tried to sell a curved stair (my first solo stair project) recently. I couldn't get the stair to fit in the required area. I went with a switchback winder to replace the simple switchback with landing. After bidding out, I don't think they would have bit on a curved stair anyway. I bid $8k on the job which includes demo two walls, add to second story floor, remove old stairs, opening at landing, two custom radus end start steps, four custom winder steps, but no paint or finish, and using mostly HomeDepot rail parts. I am guessing about +160hrs. worth of work and not quite $3k in materials.They thought that sounded outrageous. HO's BIL guessed two guys, one week, and $4k. Heck, I did 7 different proposal drawings for them just to narrow down which stair options they wanted, not to mention the 5 other stair drawings I did just to figure out what could fit the space. I charged them all of $350 as design fee and they think I am some sort of thief. "other contractors wouldn't charge for that" they say. I am Dreamcatcher Design&Build, I charge for design, am I wrong? do you?

   I get the feeling your client base is on the "carte blanc" scale.

   Here's a small pic of the winder stair I proposed:View Image

   I think my 8k is reasonable, if not cheap. I have to imagine that a I'd have to charge a minimum of 10k for a curved stair.

   What are your thoughts?

   I'd also like to know more about your stair class. I think you are only 5hrs away from me.

   DC

1. 
   Matt | Sep 04, 2009 01:54pm | #9

   >> Heck, I did 7 different proposal drawings for them just to narrow down which stair options they wanted, not to mention the 5 other stair drawings I did just to figure out what could fit the space. I charged them all of $350 as design fee and they think I am some sort of thief.  <<

   And I'll bet you "cashed in" on that design process at about $12 an hour...

   Here is an idea.  7 choices sounds like too many for most all HOs.  I'd guess that an alternative might be to go thorough the design choices yourself in pencil and paper sketch form and then draw up and present 2 or 3 max.  So many people these days have trouble visualizing from drawings (even 3-d) that they need you, the professional, to narrow it down for them.  Out of the 7, I'll bet you knew that at least 3 or 4 weren't as good as the front runners anyway.

   Not meaning to get in your business here....  Just sharing my thoughts....

    

1. 
   Dreamcatcher | Sep 04, 2009 04:05pm | #10

   Matt,In most design situations I try to give 3 choices, usually the three vary in either style, price, or my desire vs. the HO's [poor design sense] desire vs. compromise. Through the magic of computer rendering, I make the one I want look awesome and the one they want look lame. Not dishonest, just a method of persuasion.Anyway, this time I worked out four stairs (including a curved stair and straight run) and presented one to the HO's just to let them know that the general layout was limited due to the constraints of the space but the options and details were still plentiful to choose from.I began by proposing the same winder shown with some custom curved railing accents. I ballpark bid that and they didn't like the prices I was giving to curve railing so I told them I would stick to stock straight runs. I bid them will all stock railings, three custom start steps, four custom winders, open stringer, a drawing accompanied and at that point I was over 12 hrs into meetings, designing, rendering, price checking, and quoting. I charged them $175 for the design time. We met and they wanted to see four options: closed stringers, a mid-level pass-through, squared starter steps, and a pre-fab double radius starter step. Oh, I forgot to mention that after each meeting they would press that this is ASAP. I submit drawings with option pricing. They choose the options they want; which happens to be much more than original. I go back and design the final. So I end up with another 3 hrs in meeting, 6 hours in design, 1 hour in price check, 4 hours in quote. I add another $175 design fee to the quote for a total of $350. They are P.O.ed and actually ask "do you really want this job?". I, of course say "absolutely I want this job, but I cannot work for free, what would you like me to do". HO agrees that the price is just the price and they did choose more options. Then calls me an hour later to say "your bid is rejected." I assure them my price is fair and reasonable and talk him into giving me a meeting the beginning of the following week. We meet, HO is much more humble. Says he has to think about it more/ discuss with the missus. That was this Mon. and I haven't heard from them. I am going over there this morn. with a bill for just design. I have copyrights on my drawings but nobody ever cares. All I can do is give a bill, collect the drawings, and hope to get paid (not likely).I am still rather new, been in business solo for 6yrs. Been "design and build" for only 3 yrs. so my contract language and billing process is still permeable. From now on I am charging an up front "design retainer" and adding sections of the U.S. copyright law to my contract.DC

1. 
   StanFoster | Sep 05, 2009 02:15am | #11

   Dreamcatcher-    I am not smart enough to know how to make money on a $10,000.00 curved stairway.     I could build a curved stairway for less money than I can build a switchback/winder stairway.   Those are simply hour killers.

   You know your stuff.....I commend you for being able to pull it off!

    

   Stan

1. 
   MattSwanger | Sep 05, 2009 04:51am | #12

   160+ hours on a switchback stairway is a bit much,  stacking boxes solo,  can be done in the rough in under 2 days.   Handrails were 2 more days. 

    Woods favorite carpenter

    

2. 
   Huck | Sep 05, 2009 07:19am | #13

   160+ hours on a switchback stairway is a bit much

   yeah, but he said it included demo two walls, add to second story floor, remove old stairs, opening at landing, two custom radus end start steps, four custom winder steps, but no paint or finish, and using mostly HomeDepot rail parts.View Image bakersfieldremodel.com

3. 
   Dreamcatcher | Sep 05, 2009 05:08pm | #14

   Well, I talked to the clients yesterday. They said they got a line of credit and will be going with me on the stairs for $8k.The 160 hours is an intentionally high guess and yes there is much more than just the stairs - some demo/dw repair/wall&floor framing/flooring repair/milling trim and treads/etc. Plus I account for and charge for time rolling out tools/cleaning up/picking up materials/scratching my head/talking to the client each day/etc.You guys know how it goes; if I can do it in less time then I just made more per hour. Makes up for all those jobs that I finish up at $8/hr.DC

4. 
   MattSwanger | Sep 05, 2009 05:14pm | #15

   i misread totally.  framing them before and finishing them in a new work field was well short of that.  wasnt trying to pick,  just thought if he wanted the job he could start there with the man hours. Woods favorite carpenter

    

5. 
   Dreamcatcher | Sep 05, 2009 05:15pm | #16

   "I am not smart enough to know how to make money on a $10,000.00 curved stairway."???Are you saying $10k is too little money for the time involved or that nobody would pay $10k for a stairway?Depending on the job and the client, there are times when I feel like I am making out like a bandit and other times when I feel like I am the worst paid guy out there.DC

6. 
   Hjelm | Sep 05, 2009 07:08pm | #18

   I have built a few curved stairways, rough framed only. I get $3-$4,000.00. One week labor me and a helper.

   Edited 9/5/2009 12:11 pm ET by Hjelm

   
7. 
   Hjelm | Sep 05, 2009 07:18pm | #19

   I found a few pics     0168 is not freestanding ...one day labor $500.00

   Edited 9/5/2009 12:21 pm ET by Hjelm

   
8. 
   mikeroop | Sep 06, 2009 01:01am | #20

   stan is saying he charges way more than 10,000.00 for a stairwaybut he will never tell how much unless you are the client maybe?

9. 
   StanFoster | Sep 06, 2009 03:28pm | #21

   I am simply stating that I could not make a living at building an all oak tread/poplar skirtboard curved stairway....and install it with all the railing for $10,000.00 .

   I have to add some important logistics to this however.   A typical stairway as above would cost in materials $3000.00  If its a basic stairway....I could build it in my shop and install it in 3 weeks.  That would be $7000 for 3 weeks work.   Of course that is plenty if......I didnt have my ongoing overhead plus the most important......  

   The biggest reason is that stairways do not fall in order like painting rooms....or installing trim.  In a perfect world....if I could schedule one curved stairway a month...and KNOW that was guaranteed....I could lower my prices a lot.  But in reality....I find myself waiting on framing...drywalling....material choices for the stairways....and getting those materials.   The actual percentage of my time building stairways is probably 50% of time.   When I am going....I am busy....when I am not....I am working on my helicopter or out bidding other stairways.

   I reveal a lot of stuff here on this forum,  but to start revealing my prices....that is really something that is not wise to discuss in my opinion.  Its only purpose would be to satisfy the curiousity of people reading the thread.  Sure...I "wonder" what others get for their work...but I would never ask them.   Of course if they posted it ...I would read it.

    

   Stan   

10. 
    Huck | Sep 06, 2009 04:17pm | #22

    I reveal a lot of stuff here on this forum,  but to start revealing my prices....that is really something that is not wise to discuss in my opinion.  Its only purpose would be to satisfy the curiousity of people reading the thread.  Sure...I "wonder" what others get for their work...but I would never ask them.   Of course if they posted it ...I would read it.

    when Stan Foser speaks...people listen!  (me included)View Image bakersfieldremodel.com

2. 
   popawheelie | Sep 05, 2009 05:58pm | #17

   "I get the feeling your client base is on the "carte blanc" scale."

   I don't agree. Some people just don't know the cost of things.

   How would they?

   On the other hand, people drop a lot of money on a a car they don't need all the time. And the car depreciates how much when it is driven off the lot?

   Sports cars? Most people don't know how hard they could be driven and where would they drive them hard?

   What a waste. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers