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Hi-
I am a new owner of a 1926 house. I think the windows are original to the home. They are the “double hung” type. I NEED help.
1. They are painted and stuck. What can I do? Or should I hire someone and who?
2. The weight and pulley system has many coats of paint as well. Not sure if they will work or not. Can this be replaced easily? I went to Lowe’s and they said I had to buy new window and system. It would run about $100 per window. I would love to keep the windows we have since the house is historical.
3. When standing near window I can feel outside air coming in. Is there any hope?
I looked up some articles and went to web site suggested but did not find info. This mths mag is how I found this site and it was speaking of what I need but I can’t find the msg on line. Am I looking it up incorrectly?
Any one out there that can help this girl? Many thanks in advance!
Replies
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Without becoming "Nine-fingered Sheri," you can use a utility knife to cut through the paint build-up where the sash meets the stops/jambs. Sometimes a putty knife helps as well. this may allow you to at least get the sashes mobile. Not sarcasm, but a serious warning. Utility knives with new blades cause nasty, deep cuts...often worse than spinning carbide.
You can replace the sash cord and clean up the pulley assembly, but sometimes it's easier (and more energy efficient) to remove the sashes from the window unit, remove the access covers, and remove the weights. This cavity is often stuffed with FG insulation. To remove the sashes you may have to take the stops off of the frame. They'll most likely be brittle...don't worry too much about trashing them, they can easily be replaced...even when "historical."
Many resoration suppliers have either friction hardware or full-fledged jamb kits to tighten up your windows. Some are simple, some more complex. Sone keep the flavor of historical accuracy, others obliterate it. Realize, however, that the less you do, the less you are able to reduce the airflow through your windows. Some jamb-liner kits hve a low visual impact...they preserve the historical flavor whiel upgrading the energy efficiency of the window unit.
If going whole-hog, you may also want to remove the interior window trim and also insulate (low-expansion foam or FG) the cavity between the window jamb and the framing.
Each window will most likely be laborious and messy to upgrade. If you'll bo doing this yourself, consider picking a low-vis window (one in a back room) for your first attempts.
*Sheri - Just to add to Mongo's post. There's a thing called a paint saw. It has a thin blade and serated teeth. It will cut through thick paint and sometimes works better if you are breaking lots of utility knife blades. I got my last one at ACE hardware. Check out some past issues of THIS OLD HOUSE magazine ,I seem to recall an issue on replacing sash cords. Good pictures and explanation.
*Hi Sheri, and welcome to Breaktime. At the end of this post you will also find (3) URLs for old-house website discussion groups, which vary somewhat in quality, but can be useful for ideas.I'm delighted to hear that you aren't going to just mindlessly junk these old windows in 'favor' of cheap replacements. The overall effect on the house is not necessarily improved by replacements, and many times the effects are negative, especially when outside trim gets ditched in the process. If your house is historic (1926 can qualify for the National Register) then you are doing the right thing.My experience with windows of this type is both professional and personal- our house is 1932 and has original windows as well, 6 over 1 (double-hung cottage sash, cords and weights). I've restored a number of them and they all work just fine.Usually, but not always, windows of this vintage were double-hung (both sashes move) but occasionally we do see some where the upper sash is fixed (single-hung). You can check this pretty easily, becase a fixed sash will have a solid wood block below the upper sash, preventing its movement.First, to open them. Let's assume that they are just painted shut. You'll need a utility knife, a thin putty knife and maybe a thicker one as well. Start with the utility knife and cut between the paint and the interior stop (the wood that keeps the window from falling into the room - it's attached separately). I would suggest doing the lower sash first. Try to cut just the paint and no wood - it's not easy. Go outside and do the same between the sash and the parting bead - this is a small wood strip (the piece you see between the sashes. After cutting through the paint, insert your thinnest putty knife first, wiggling and moving gently (the knife, not you :) until you free the sash. Use a thicker one if it is stubborn. You can test for looseness by grasping the upper rail of the lower sash and 'rocking' the sash a bit, and by taking the heels of both hands and gently (at first) striking the upper rail (where a sash lock would go). Be careful not to put your hand through the glass and don't hit it too hard (you can separate the joints of the lower sash).Another caution is b never open a double-hung, especially one that sticks or has been stuck, with your fingers over the top of the lower sash top rail. If it frees suddenly, you will find your fingers jammed when the lower sash rises and clamps them against the first horizontal muntin bar of the upper sash. I guarantee that if you do this once it will be a sufficient lesson for the rest of your life. The upper sash can be freed in a similar manner, except it is more difficult since it can't be forced down very easily.In freeing the windows you can check for operation, including broken cords, dropped weights, etc. Post back if you need info on further repairs - they require carpentry skills since you have to carefully remove a stop and, for the upper sash, a parting bead. Be careful to vacuum the area thoroughly and wear a dust mask - the paint you are messing with likely contains lead.For heat loss, I'd get storm windows, either triple-track aluminum, hanging wood (2 x cost) or interior storms (hassle). There are ways to weatherstrip the primary windows but this involves rare carpentry skills and experience as well as more money. You should be able to get things in working order and add storms for less than $100/window.Jeff ClarkeURLs for related old-house web sites:http://www.oldhouse.com/forum/index.htmlhttp://www.oldhouse.com/http://www.oldhouseweb.net/webbs430/general/index.cgi
*Sheri, Hi, I have windows like these myself and altho' they can be a bit on the "much maitenance" side, once they are the way they should be and working correctly they're O.K. To answer your questions in order: 1. You don't need to hire anyone, are you familiar with basic tools, ie-hammers, scrapers, screw drivers, eye protection, and hardware? Don't mind gettin' down and dirty? Got some time to do a window a day or two days? If the windows are painted shut, you will have to pick, scrape or chisel the paint away from the window sash and the molding. If they're is paint in the track that the sash rides in, that will have to be removed also, or should be. Check the sash lock, if it has been painted over and is also stuck, you will have to remove the paint so that you can get at the screws and remove it entirely. Look at purchasing new sash locks unless they are somehow special or different in design than what you see as new today, regardless, you can strip them with "zip strip". I just recalled that some windows that come in homes as old as '26 have a type of "stopper", mounted about halfway on both insides of the sash, that you pull or push into pre drilled holes in the window frame-this way your window can be positioned without fear of it falling-sash weights or not. If those are painted shut or sprung and non-operable, you'll have to remove the paint to find out their condition. Replacements can be had but I think that if you have sash weights, you'll be O.K. 2. In this question, I believe that what you want to do is access the weights, rope and replace them? Once you remove the paint so that you can raise the sash, there should be an outer molding that encompasses the area where the sash rides up and down. This strip, left, right (and maybe the top too?) should be removed to be able to remove the window, if the ropes are broken, so much the sooner will the window come out. These strips are often screwed down with a rosette sticking out a bit, if not they are nailed on. Once all of the hardware is removed, you will have to gently remove the strip with patience. Often these molding strips have a mitered or lapped corner at the top joining with the top strip, if you just yank it out you may wind up with splinters. If the molding isn't mitered and its just butted on there you'll be able to pull it away somewhat easily. Next, you should be able to see a wooden panel secured top and bottom with a wood screw, about elbow level in the track of sash. Remove the screws and panel and you will be able to see into the channel where the weights ride up and down. Some panels are difficult to remove what with paint and molding blocking your path, remove the molding carefully with a thin pry bar, screw driver or thick bladed scraper. If your're lucky a nail or screw may be protruding a little to give you a start. Don't yank the panel out either, they sometimes are inserted with some ingenious joinery, so be easy. Remove your weights, old rope, etc. The rope can be purchased at any hardware or Home Depot. Oh, one thing, watch out for insects, in fact be ready for just about anything because over the years just about anything may have found a home in the chute where your're reaching, have gloves handy and/or a vacume. I've seen bats, bugs, broken glass, tools, and nasty unidentified items in these. 3. Yep the windows are nice and when the house is historical its nice to keep them, but they can be a nuisance when it comes to heating and cooling. I would check with your city, town, county and see if there are any organizations that provide $$$ assistance for new or all over window repair/replacement. There may be a historical society with advice on this too. A note on the last sentence, "antique architectural" firms are becoming more of a thing to see out there these days and the two that I am familiar with in upstate NY are an invaluable source of information regarding restoration, not to mention parts and peices when something breaks. In the meantime, caulking from inside and out can be done, replacing molding that is missing and storm windows will help-especially in the winter. Of course it is summer now so, you'll have to gauge whether or not you need "storms". Indoor plastic sheeting over each window that you wouldn't normally raise helps to keep in some heat. May not look nice, but it works on saving $$ in winter. Hope this helps, reply here or email if you like, good luck.
*Bill - She shouldn't be removing lead paint before knowing how to do it 'lead-safe.'Two other comments: (1) the panel to access window weights usually runs behind the parting bead, the intricate joinery to which you refer is the rabbeted back section of the panel. It's possible to remove carefully without removing the parting bead but only just and (2) if she ends up going this far it's really important to buy cotton sash cord and nothing else.Jeff
*Sheri, I didn't realize how much I'd typed here and it loaded so late and slow, anyhow you've gotten plenty of advice, I'd agree with all that has been said here and a thought about lead paint, and even if it isn't lead, using a heat gun to remove the paint might be a bit dangerous-fumes, possible fire and it can get outta hand real quick. If you use the "zip strip" you'll need plenty of ventilation too and it'll be easier if the window sash(es) are out. Be safe and good luck. Bill
*Sheri --Here are a couple more links:www.bbmc.comwww.windowrepair.comBBMC is the Boston Building Materials Co-op. Despite the name, they specialize in double hung window repair supplies. Personally, I always try the thin putty knife first rather than the utility. I have an old one with the corners worn round, it does the trick with much less danger to me and to the wood.With double hung windows, once you get them cut loose and cleaned up and painted, the big problem is making them weather tight. You need weather stripping that's designed to work without causing so much friction than you can't move the sash. Thus the references to the specialty suppliers.-- J.S.
*Sheri- I'm a contractor who has installed just about every brand of window out there. I installed windows from a rehab we did 15 years ago in my house. I think that they are about 80 years old. I don't think that you can match the look and feel of a home without them. That said get ready for some hard work. Here's what I did:1 Remove the sash stop with a flat prybar and replace- no glory in saving readily available trim that takes forever to strip. (the piece that holds the lower sash in that runs up the length of the window)2 With a carbide scraper pull the ridges of paint from the window jamb and tilt the lower sash toward you and cut the chords. The weights will drop with a thud minimized by the amount of chord you can hang on to before it dissapears into the pulley.3 This is where the window zipper ( saw mentioned above) shines. The parting bead that separates the two sash will no doubt be glued to the upper sash. Saw the paint out and scrape the exterior paint from the track below. The upper sash can come down now.4 Remove the parting bead- still available at the lumber yard.5 Now you can remove the upper sash and scrape the frame. You will find a flathead screw that holds a small 2"x10"~ cover. Behind thisare the weights. Note how the sash chord is woven through them.6 I think you should use stripper on the sash.Plan on doing one window per weekend and hire a painter to finish the light sand and painting including the glazing or get good at it fast. This part almost ate me alive. Now you are into stripping and oiling pulleys, new parting bead, stops and sash chords. The Europeans work their sash with the theory that the unit has lasted 80 years why not 80 more? With research you will find find many articles (not here) on window restoration. I had a bunch in my favorites but lost them when we got a new computer. Ask Jeeves.
*Cal - the only thing you've said that I disagree with is that you should not cut the sash cord and allow the weights to drop. In some cases (balloon framing for instance) the weights won't be sitting next the the access door - they'll be lost in the wall construction. She will have a hard time finding / sizing new weights. Instead, as the window is pulled out, hold the cord and cut it while still holding on - tie a big knot and let it hang until you are sure you can get under the weight. In some cases the sash cord knot will just pop out of the hole in the sash but in some cases it's nailed - that's the reason to be prepared to cut.Jeff
*Sheri - Here is an on-line pamphlet on lead-safe practice. I shouldn't be using the term without elaborating.You must have Adobe Acrobat - it's a PDF file.Jeff
*Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I will post back and let you know how it is going.
*Jeff - Sometimes the chord goes through a drilled channel and out a hole in the middle of the sash also but I have never seen a window framed without a sill plate including balloon framing. Almost all per-war houses are balloon framed. However, fault can be found with dropping the weights and breaking the loop holes. What you can do is tie one of those half loops in the chord or clamp some vice grips on to relieve the weight while undoing the chord from the sash then lowering the weight slowly.Also note the length of the chord to make sure that it's long enough to raise the sash all the way. If the sash are different sizes then make sure the weights match the sash as the pair's combined weight is about that of the sash so it can balance. Cal
*If you live anywhere near Detroit, contact H & R Windows, they specialize in repair and restoration of older double hung windows. Hiring a professional to get you started is a wonderful way to get into the world of these nice old windows.Two things I've found with mine: - you can use waxed rope to seal up the windows in the winter, until you get storms or add weatherstripping (this stuff goes back to the days before any of the other was invented, and works pretty well, but is labor that would have to be done every fall). - but if they are painted shut and you can still feel a "draft" then you are maybe not feeling actual outside air leaking through, but instead feeling convection current generated by the cool glass and the warm air of the room. This current will be stronger with less insulated glass, but will occur with all windows.I did an experiment this winter, using all of the insulation tricks that I could think of (waxed rope all around the sashes, storm window sealed up outside, and tightly closed/sealed sashes) and there was still a hearty current generated at each window (stronger current with cooler outside temps - we had lots of near zero days last winter). I guess that this is why the elderly previous owners used such heavy curtains (with closed off curtain boxes over each window) to reduce the heat loss from these currents.I mention this stuff just to point out that all 'drafts' are not the same!
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Hi-
I am a new owner of a 1926 house. I think the windows are original to the home. They are the "double hung" type. I NEED help.
1. They are painted and stuck. What can I do? Or should I hire someone and who?
2. The weight and pulley system has many coats of paint as well. Not sure if they will work or not. Can this be replaced easily? I went to Lowe's and they said I had to buy new window and system. It would run about $100 per window. I would love to keep the windows we have since the house is historical.
3. When standing near window I can feel outside air coming in. Is there any hope?
I looked up some articles and went to web site suggested but did not find info. This mths mag is how I found this site and it was speaking of what I need but I can't find the msg on line. Am I looking it up incorrectly?
Any one out there that can help this girl? Many thanks in advance!