Here in New England, it’s common (if not code) for builders to install 1×3 strapping on ceilings before the wall-board goes up.
So my question: What kind of nails do you use to attach the strapping? Specifically, what size? And, do you use smooth or ring-shank?
Thanks.
TF
Toolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as “Toolfreak”)
Replies
I was wondering this too.
I figured either deck screws. If nails were used, I figure you'd need ring shank so they don't pull out.
We strap our ceilings with ring shank 8's. (.113X 2 3/8") but you can also use rink shank 6's too. Could probably even skip the ring shank if you really wanted to go cheap, but using them is cheap insurance. We use 8's because that's what we use for subfloor and sheathing and it's one less size nail to tote around by using them for everything.
You use ring-shanks for sheathing and subfloors, too?
TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
Absolutely.View Image
I was at Home Depot today looking for 8d ring-shanks for the Bostich, but they only had them galvanized for use with ACQ (about double the cost of the 8d common/smooth shank). Is there a cheaper alternative?
TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
try a lumber yard.. get outta HD
or just use a smooth shank 8dMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
What Smitty said.
I buy my nails from a tool store or the lumberyard if I'm in a bind. HD is often hit or miss with what's in stock on any given day. I'm usually not in a position to shop around and try to find what I need for nails so I go right to a pro supplier who will stock whatever I need even if I'm the only one who requests it. Good service is worth the price.
But to be honest I pay less for nails at my tool supplier than I do at the lumberyard. Around here a case of gun 8's is around $45 or so at the lumber yard, probably the same at HD although I honestly don't know. My tool supplier sells me the same box of nails for about $34, will deliver, always has what I need, knows my name, and repairs my busted tools. So a pay a few bucks more on the purchase of a new tool.... it's money well spent. He also stocks brand-name nails which I find work better than the off-brands in the nailers.View Image
I'm right with you on using supply house over H.D Quick story... On a job about 1 hour from the house Bostich gun takes a crap(any body else having problems??)
One year warranty 11 months in. Supply house 10 minutes away, walk in walk up to salesman who knows my name and phone number by heart and walk out with reprint of receipt for repair shop. Try that at H.D.
Who's your tool supplier?TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
New Hampshire Tool Outlet in Salem, NH. No sales tax and they'll deliver down here if the quantity is right. Sometimes I'll take the ride up there just to enjoy a tour of the 'mothership'. It's a nice tool store, it'll get you drooling. In-house repairs too. The store totally caters to field carps in their product selection and services.
Sometimes I'll use Marathon Tool in Medway too. But only if I'm caught with my pants down and need something right away. They're not as loyal... so neither am I. Besides, they haven't been able to really compete with NHT on price and don't offer any jobsite delivery services.
EDIT:
http://www.nhtooloutlet.com
View Image
Edited 3/6/2006 5:16 pm ET by dieselpig
Thanks for the tip. I sense a road trip in my near future.TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
Tool, I live in a black hole of construction technology, so had a lot of trouble finding the rings. I ended up ordering them from the local ABC store.
http://www.abcsupply.com/
jt8
"Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Toolfan,
I prefer to use 2" staples for strapping. Two of them in an intersection will hold over 100 pounds and they are a lot cheaper than nails.
One big advantage of strapping is that you can flatten the plane of the ceiling very easily by just knocking a strap or two down a bit from the joist. I don't know about the rest of you but we often get crowned lumber around here and I don't know anybody who lays out the crowns to get a nice even rise in the ceiling. We nail em in, crown up of course, as they come and sort out the ceiling later.
Ron
They make ring-shanked staples?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
Maybe, if you just looked close enough...........?
Ron
ring 8d
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
tool , traditionally, strapping (furring ) was nailed with (2 ) 6d or (1) 8d
nowadays we use gun nails and (2) 8d
if it has to have a fire rating you can't strap at all... it in effect joins all joist bays making it a much faster fire spread
p
well, you can , if you block between the furring.. i had a BI who insisted we do that on every third joist
of course, there is PROBABLY no RATED system with a strapped ceiling...
so , if the spec called for a rated ceiling, lot's of things no longer qualify
now, i would think that a high-hat strapping system would be rated
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 3/3/2006 9:03 pm ET by MikeSmith
Strap, strap, strap! You New England guys sure use a lot of wood. The state of Maine is going to look clearcut pretty soon.
Is it really worth it? Strapping a mainfloor ceiling over joists laid up on 16s seems like overkill to me, and the same can be said for strapping ceilings under roofs that are framed on 16s.
If we are rocking up against trusses or rafters where they are on 24s, we use rollformed steel RC channel, but we let the rockers put it up. Cut with snips and shot up with screwguns, the rockers slap it up so quick it makes your head spin. Strap on the stilts, start talking trash in Spanish or French, and it's all over by 8:45 am.
Coast to coast, I'll bet the great majority of drywall ceilings go up directly onto the framing, with no strapping between. Is that great majority of builders doing something wrong? Is sheetrock cracking and failing in Durango, Fayetteville, Rancho Mirage, Naples, Austin, Bismark, Des Moines, and elsewhere, all because strapping should have been used? Are all our ceilings wavy, while those in Providence are dead flat?
I see that Toll Brothers has projects in Providence, West Warwick, and Lincoln, RI. Do you think they have adopted the local building tradition and are strapping all ceilings? If not, do you think their ceilings are wavier than yours? Is their ceiling sheetrock more prone to crack failures?
gene, gene, gene.... you sound so ........ jealous !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
In my next life, Mike, I want to be a New England builder. Naw, maybe not.
I'm just a contrarian, though, tryin' to get you to think outside the box.
Didja see my post called "Qualified Builder?" Nice shop, huh? And I though I was cool doing taper rips for jamb extensions with my EZ Smart rig.
Maybe in my next life I can be a builder in Leland, Michigan. I am part way there now, with a BS in Civil Eng., just like Marty Eisling.
Do they strap up there in upper Michigan ;-) ?? Whaddya think?
But life is good right now. Down to just a few punchlist items, we can ski more than work from now on.
no... give me a link to " qualified builder "..
have you made your reservations for tipifest yet ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Well, lets see if Jerald can muster up the energy to cross the river.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
i'm supposed to see jerrald at JLC at the end of the month...
are you packed for Austin yet ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Well, lets see.
A book for the plane. Balls and a travelcase for the sticks. I've been told to take the good camera, there's things to see. What else?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
a snack pack in your carry-on... the airports are expensive...
$2.67 for a bottle of cokeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
What's the "no" list at the airports now?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
no locks on your bags..
golf clubs went thru fine.. if you get a soft bag , look into the BagBoy GolfStick ( or whatever they call it ) looks like an adjustable mushroom.. you adjust it to just longer than your driver.. keeps the bag handlers from snapping your shafts
the hard bags are pretty big.. they often won't fit in small & mid-sized trunks
hey , check it out.. looks like a 9-hole right next to that place that blodgett is booked into for tipi
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 3/4/2006 8:55 am ET by MikeSmith
Mike, I'll take a peek. Did you see that the Bethpage 5 courses are just south. That might be a good time. We hit that one by blodgett, maybe we can get him out .
My future son n law is going to fix me up with a travel bag, don't know just yet if it's the big one. I've got a light carry bag, it needs the protection. A pc of 2'' pvc would probably stiffen it up. We're renting a car, no idea what size. if one of the seats folds down we're in biznes.
We've got an arrival steak dinner at Ricks (the fest fish fryer) dads place. Yowza.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Don't know if you've left yet, but here are the four things to know about Austin:Ironworks (about 2nd and Red River)
Trudys Lone Star Cafe
Hole in the wall (Guadalupe) get the reality sandwich
and if you do the Texas two step, The Broken Spokehave a nice trip!
Thanks Bryan. We leave a week from tomorrow, the 12th. Can't miss the Welders Reunion Bash at Howards Club H in BG on the night of the 11th. The drummer is one of the travelers, 11am plane is the earliest he's planning on being airborne.
We had one of you columbusonians visit with us tonight. She's studying Pharmacy at OSU. After 5 yrs she's wondering if it will ever end. Very bright and beautiful girl, she'll go far. We're so thankful our daughters friends from here still stop by.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Go here http://www.easlingconstruction.com/
gene... nice company.. but " go here" .... and do what ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Sorry you had to go to bed last night with such a fighting attitude and no takers!;)most of the stuff about the positives of strapping has been answered before, but I'll respond to the comparison in other areaas.More than once, I have heard customers from away comment on how much nicer the SR finish is here than in other homes they've had,so Yes I think it is noticeable to the customerIs it wrong to skip the strapping?
No
Is it better to use it?
you bet!
Is metal hat strapping even better?
could be...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Shucks, I meant to adress your concerns about strip mining the State of Maine to harvest straps.These are milled from the tops of the spruce trees that would have no other value anyways.And
You would be suprised how much less timber is harvested in Maine over the past 15-20 years!
One problem is State policies that are very anti-business driving more jobs out of the state every yearanother is the Greenies - a lot of land is becoming restricted or set-aside.We get more lumber from canada or NH than from Maine now
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I was talking to our Drywall supplier who said that all celings are supposed to be 12" o/c and no more to get a warranty. I said "you got to be kidding, where on your product does it say that, or any type of literature?" He says that is why you strap every 12" ....
Any body ever heard of this? I think he needs a new crack dealer
You said in you post, "I was talking to our Drywall supplier who said that all celings are supposed to be 12" o/c and no more to get a warranty."
Tell the dope that he needs to pursue another career. Maybe used car sales.
This, from the USG site, discussing their 1/2" Sheetrock brand sag-resistant board for ceiling applications:
SHEETROCK¯ Brand 1/2" Interior Gypsum Ceiling Panels, Sag-Resistant are only 1/2" thick, but offer significantly improved resistance to sag when compared to 5/8" gypsum panels. These high-performance, lightweight panels resist sag without excessive brittleness that can cause panel and joint cracking.
Features and Benefits
SHEETROCK¯ Brand Sag-Resistant Interior Ceiling Board weighs approximately 700 pounds per thousand square feet less than 5/8" gypsum panels, and approximately 200 pounds per thousand square feet less than 1/2" interior ceiling board products, significantly reducing strain on ceiling systems. A unique manufacturing process provides superior resistance to sag in textured ceilings and humid environments for a longer lasting, more attractive ceiling. The board's tapered edges ensure smooth, strong finished joints. Its gypsum core is noncombustible and boast a Class A flame spread rating.
Weighs significantly less than 5/8" gypsum panels
Provides improved sag-resistance when compared with 5/8" board
Supports sprayed textures and insulation as well as 5/8" gypsum panels
Ensures easy application for reduced installation time and lower labor costs
Product Availability
SHEETROCK¯ Brand Sag-Resistant Interior Ceiling Board is 1/2" (12.7 mm) thick, 4´ wide (1219 mm) and available in 8´ (2,438 mm) and 12´ (4,267 mm) lengths.
SHEETROCK¯ Brand panel products are distributed throughout the United States. For specific information about products in your region, contact a United States Gypsum Company sales office or sales representative.
Limitations of Use
1. Avoid exposure to temperatures exceeding 125ºF (52º C).
2. Avoid exposure to excessive or continuous moisture before, during and after installation. Eliminate sources of moisture immediately.
3. Non-load bearing.
4. Maximum span between ceiling supports is 24" o.c.
Thanx-
I hope he likes eggs. He gonna have alot of it on his face!!!
do you think their ceilings are wavier than yours?
Mine probably are, but I have a hard time worrying about it. Everytime I get up on a ladder and put my eye on the ceiling I want to puke! Thank goodness I don't have a ladder or I might turn into a bulemic pole!
Waves are nice. They match the lakes and oceans.
blue
Strapping performs a number of benefits. One is to keep the joists from twisting and to tie the joists together which makes them capable of carrying a larger load . It will also reduce bounce in the floor above. Heavy point loads on the floor above will be spread across more of the floor system as well. You can eliminate the need for solid blocking (if your code allows it) as it performs the same function but better. Every block has two hinges inherent in the design, making them noisy and weak relying on the frictional strength of the nails holding the in. Strapping should be screwed so that you can adjust it using shims to get a perfectly flat surface. When the joists naturally shrink as the structure is heated the dryaweall screws are less likely cause a "pop" in the drywall when strapping is used.
While some strapping could help load balance across joists, I doubt that's going to happen with a 1x3!
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. No way is it going to replace blocking for stiffening the floor.