Hello all,
I’m doing a basement remodel, and I’d like to use the system that’s described by Andy Engle in “the no-mold finished basement” article in FHB online. Problem is, I can’t find EPS in 4×8 sheets anywhere near where I live in S.E. Pa, mid way between Philly and Baltimore. No luck with big box stores, lumber yards, eifs suppliers, manufacturer won’t sell small quantities, and the one contact the sales rep gave me hasn’t returned my calls. Any ideas? Thanks!
Jeff
Replies
EPS is the expanded polystyrene, it loolks like little white foam balls pressed together. Out here in So Cal, I can only get that and foil faced polyurathane. I CANNOT get extruded polystyrene, which is waterproof and tougher than EPS.
But I could get it when I lived in the Midwest. I'll bet the extruded pink or blue foam sheets would work for you.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Parenting has always been a mix of sage life advice and inexcusable laziness.
Kam-co 1-610-872-5000
They do insulation, drywall, steel studs....
They are about 30 secondes off I-95 on townshipline rd. Chester pa.
They will sell any quanity you want.
Bill
Thanks for the kamco lead. They were on my list to call, but somehow I never did. I know a guy who used to work for them, he said he could get it for me. That might be where . I don't want to use anything other than EPS so I can follow the building science method. It seems like a good way to go.
Don't get too focused on the fact that EPS was used in the article. Building Science recommends either EPS or XPS. 2" XPS is fine for basement walls, as it has enough vapor permeability to make the system work. Plus, XPS is more rigid and therefore easier to use. See the Building Science article on basement that you access through the link below.
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0202-basement-insulation-systems/view?searchterm=basement%20insulation
On basement floors, you can use up to 1" XPS or thicker EPS if needed.
Billy
Home depot has 4x8 2" rigid foam. R-10, and in a delightful pink...there's actually 14 sheets out on I-40 that blew out of my help's truck<G>
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Now I know why they calls you Snort. You be snorting mad and you make me snort with laughter
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yer right, working with me is a laugh a minuit, I'm going to have to start a thread on "The Crawl Space That Turned Into A Sky Scraper And The Pink Mosaic Insulation They Used To Seal It!" Arrrrrggggghhhh<G>
Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
there's actually 14 sheets out on I-40 that blew out of my help's truck<G>
I thinks that's better than unrolling a 4'x 100' roll of 6" unfaced f/g off the back of my truck at 5:00 am one morning. Right across the front of a convenience store parking lot.
At least I didn't have to chase it down a piece at a time.<g>
Dave
I believe that Andy ordered direct from an insulation wholesaler, but you should be able to find EPS(white), or at the very least, XPS (blue/pink) at any big box store or lumberyard. I've never been in a Home Depot or Lowe's that didn't have it, actually.
4x8 may be hard to come by, though. I've mostly seen it in 2x8 sheets.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
If not, he should check a roofing supply such as ABC and get Polyisocyanurate, that is what I had to do here in KY.
No good if he's following the Building Science insulation plan. Polyiso is a vapor barrier, and this plan is focused on letting water vapor pass.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
I was unaware of that. Thanks. Is not extruded a VB as well? I can see expanded being permeable, I have had coffee cups sweat out coffee,,,,but I thoght extruded ( which others are espousing as an alt) would be more air tite?
Air tight is a different story, but in terms of permeability (abilty to pass water) extruded is a little more resistant than expanded. Both will pass water vapor though. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
Gotcha, thanks.
Are you sure?Polyiso will absorb and hold water if submerged. XPS will not. I don't know about vapour passing through.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffinit's not the polyiso, it's the facing that comes with it that is a VB
Now I am confused too. I have 2" Polyiso,,,it has fiberglass web facing, no plastic, no foil.
I have 2" Pink Extruded foam..it has no facing
I also have 3/4" thick Blue Extruded..it does have plastic face, thin as saran wrap, not thick like visqueen..
Now pure white expanded I don't have, but what I have seen has either foil, or fiberglass, and some (not in 4x8) just plain sheets that are meant for inbetween studs, about 1" thick.
I guess I need to read Andy's article to understand what we're after here.
...better yet, read Rick Arnold's article on Rigid-Foam Insulation for the exterior of a house. It's in issue 181.
Unfaced XPS has a perm rating of 1 - thicker panels, and those with plastic facings have a lower perm rating, but are still considered permeable (vapor retarders, not barriers). Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
Side bar hijack! What are y'all using to fasten 2" stuff to block? I have been using PL, but thats getting a little pricey. Hilti quoted a price of $880 for DX 460 MX that will shoot plates, and with an accessory nose, will shoot maybe a 2 1/2" wide capped nail...wheeeeuuuhhh! Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
You could use adhesive style polyurathane foam from a gun. Has a little bit of foaming action to fill the nooks and crannies, but each can goes much farther than PL.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Parenting has always been a mix of sage life advice and inexcusable laziness.
I agree with the above, I use spray foam from http://www.efi.org - the only drawback is that you need to brace the panels until the foam sets up. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
Something like the Todal gun, or Touch n Seal can? How long is the wait? I've got about 40 shts to put up! Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
In that type configuration yes. But I would neveruse a polyiso on a floor in a cellar.To absorbant and not enugh resistance to compression
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You may be right about ISO absorbing water, I honestly don't know about that.
The facing is what makes ISO a vapor barrier/or not a vapor barrier. ISO panels are always faced with something, because they are made with liquid foam sprayed against a substrate where it hardens. Foil facings are considered impermeable, fiberglass faceings are not.
XPS has a perm rating of about 1, which makes it a vapor retarder, not a vapor barrier.
so...I mis-spoke to Sphere as well - if his ISO was fiberglass faced then he would be okay.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
I see more 4x8 than 2x8
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Roofing suppliers have it.
Harrington supply and Roofers Supply in SLC,Ut have iso faced and unfaced ,extruded and eps. 4x8s various 1/2" thru 4"
I get mine from Avilite Corp. in Manchester, NH - http://www.avilitecorp.com
Not close to you, but I would expect there to be someone similar in your area.
They make blocks which are 2'x4'x16', then cut them down using hot wire cutters to whatever size I want. They even have a CNC cutter for complex geometry.
If you can't find someone local, Bob at Avilite might be able to point you to someone who is.
Don
jeff.. we use EPS exclusively
you can find a franchise foam company near you by googling on
R-Control
we use 2" ( 1 lb. /cf ) for the application you are looking for.. also we only use PerformGuard, which is treated with borates
under slabs we use the 2 lb/cf density for higher compression strength