Hello,
I am renovating a condo in a wood-frame building built in the early 50s, located in the Pacific Northwest. There’s a pretty big drop in the floor (2″ over an 8′ run). A flooring person said today this was an indication of a serious structural problem, and I should alert my strata council. I’m not aware of such problems, and I have had a building inspector, and more recently a structural engineer, in to see either the building or the condo itself (though not specifically about the floor drop).
This seems like an over-reaction to me, but I thought I would consult the wise minds of FHB before I do anything.
Thanks for any feedback.
Replies
2" in 8' is a lot. I would want to find out why.
"my strata council."
Your WHAT?
From some googling it appears that it might be the condo association board, but I have never heard that term.
2" in 8 ft is a BIG change in level.
I can't see the floor moving that much without there being serious signs of wall cracks, stuck doors, and light shining under the walls.
Now my garage floor is like that. But it was poured that way.
And I would be surprised that an inspector and an engineer could walk over this and not question the drop.
More details of the condo.
Is this sidy by side units? multi-story?
Is this floor on the lowest level? Is it a slab?
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I'm wondering what inspector or structural engineer woudlnt notice 2" in 8 foot. I'm also wondering what you would consder to be a problem. 2" in 8 foot should make you off balance enough to drop your beer
Must be a whiskey drinker!
I had the same thought. I am surmising that perhaps the engineer had been brought in to adress one specific item of concern and not to inspect/evaluate the entire building.
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Thanks for the responses so far. Here's some further information:
- the unit is an inside unit on the 3rd floor of the 3 storey building, so there are 2 units below plus a penthouse above (see more below)
- 2 of the walls of the unit "wrap around" the adjacent stairwell, and it is along these two walls where the drop is located.
- The stairwell continues up one more story to a self-contained "box penthouse" that sits on the roof.
- prior to purchase last year, I hired a building inspector to give a general overview of the building (everything from plumbing to electrical to drainage to structural). His cursory assessment was that the building showed no signs of structural problems
- the structural engineer visited a few months ago to give an opinion on whether a certain interior wall was load-bearing as I had wanted to remove it (it was; I didn't)
It seems that the floor areas butting up against the stairwell are falling away, as though they aren't properly secured and have sunk over time...?
Thanks again.
This sounds far more serious!I had assumed that as bad as 2" is, that maybe it was sag in the floor joists just frrom it being an old building.But sionce it was converted to residential with several individual units, the stairs could have been cut in and the framing never done right for all four levels.
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I wasn't clear -- the building was designed that way, with the stairwell in place. The building is, essentially, as it was when it was built.
I'm thinking you should knock on your neighbor's door downstairs and ask to look at the ceiling below your sloping floor. and see if their floor has a similar slope.TFB (Bill)
I would second that.
I think that I would pay an inspector to come look at that.
YOu better alert your inspector to make sure his insurance is paid up. It sounds like he's gonna need it. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Was kinda my thinkin' also.
There's a 2-in. drop in 8-ft. in my house (built in 1949). I didn't notice this slope until I tiled my bathroom floor. No one else did either.
I don't buy this idea that your inspector somehow blew it because he didn't feel the out-of-level floor as he walked over it. The slope in your floor works out to 1/4-in. per foot. For most mortals, that's not readily perceptible. Before your floor guy measured it with a level, did you notice the slope? Did any guest or relative ever comment on it?
Like your house, the slope in my house runs down from the exterior to the interior. This is common. Being inside the conditioned space, interior bearing walls shrink as they dry. Exterior bearing walls don't shrink or shrink less because one side is exposed to the elements.
The soil under the house may also shrink as it dries. In my case, the slope is in the first floor; therefore, it's in the foundation. The cause of the slope is the soil. My house, which has a crawlspace, is built on red clay. Around the perimeter, the clay gets rehydrated when it rains. Down the middle of the house, the clay is bone dry. The center beam rests on piers. These have sunk as the soil has shrunk. Hence, the slope towards the interior.
Concerning your out-of-level floor, it might not be a serious problem. If it's due to a slow contraction of the materials on the inside of the building--and I suspect it is--it's not that big of a deal.
I have been around construction since I was 9 years old and helped my father in remodeling projects. In all the time since then, I have never seen a house with a 2" drop in 8', that was not the result of framing problems. Yes a house can settle, but 2 in 8' is not acceptable!
It is inconceivable to me that a whole generation of people living in a house never noticed that wicked of a drop!
I understand that it may not have been the main topic of conversation, but somebody would have to be a zombie to no know it was there.
The reason the engineer didn't comment is that he was there for one specific reason and he did not expand his line of inquiry to the whole building.I agree that it could be shrink/settling to the center in the materials and soil compared to the exterior walls.But it needs to be studied to know.
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Uhm,
2" in 8'-0"
equals
1" in 4'-0"
equals
1/2" in 2'-0"
equals
1/4" in 1'-0"
Go grab your nearest four-foot level and a tap, and hold one end up 1" please.
I've "plumbing slope" floors all ofer my 54 y/o house.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Yes, happens all the time.But to not notice that it is there? Common! Are people that unaware of their environment? I realize I am a superior being and all but really!
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Are people that unaware of their environment?
Sadly, the answer to that seems to be "Yes."
Far too few even are keeping track of events in their foveal vision cone, let alone having any perception of the remaining 320-330º around them spatially.
This then seems to redouble in their cars.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I agree. So many people know so little about fixing things and building things that if it deosn't hit them in the face they won't see it. The OP for example didn't notice it until a flooring guy pointed out.
I wonder how many of Us would notice it if walked through the structure? Not sure if I would or not.
I wonder how many of Us would notice it if walked through the structure? Not sure if I would or not.
Well, barring carrying a four-foot level for discovery purposes, I'm pretty sure I'd not notice 1/4" per foot on an existing wooden framed, wooden floored, building--it would be too close to my house, where as certain about of fairway roll is common (near to "natural").
Percetion is all, as they say.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)