I posted for advice about installing Trex railings and am hearing a number of comments about flexing and sagging, even at recommended joist spacing.
Is there a better material for a deck on a summer cabin at Lake Tahoe where 4-5 feet of snow can fall off the roof and sit there all winter? At 6200 feet, air is dry, There’s not muchg rain, summer temps almost never get above 80 and nights are cool.
Thanks,
BruceT
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Replies
Trex is fine if you go on 12" centers, at 16" it WILL sag when warm. Unfortunately, I don't have much experience with anything else - and there is alot out there - Trex has the name in the marketplace and my customers tend to prefer it no matter what else is offered.
-Norm
im in durango colorado a similar climate. i would say just go with redwood and keep it stained. i notice a lot of water stains in trex and it gets so hot bare feet are not an option. also most wood damage from snow comes from digging into it with a shovel. so let the snow sit and enjoy the summers. all i do is stain log homes and refinish them.
Ipe is the decking of choice in much of the Colorado ski country and would be my first choice.
We've installed trex for a couple of different customers, don't like it for a number of reasons. We have also installed Timbertech (home depot) and Correct Deck. Correct Deck is made in vermont and made to withstand heavy winters. It is a composite and oak mix and is much harder than trex. We installed it on a large deck and it was far sturdier. I don't know how to post pics, someone tell me how and I'll post pics of the correct deck install.
I have Trex on my deck going on year 6. Deck & rails all Trexs. Love it, get out the power washer & 20 mins later were Good! I would never go with another wood Deck!
Colorado 7500' above the sea, rain, snow & sun its all Good! Just watch out for grease from the BBQ grill.
Railing is 50' (+-) blocked down about every 6' will see if we can get a photo when the suns up!
we do Merante', Ipe', Alaskan Cedar and Trex..
we use 16" centers and have never had a sag problem... if you go to a diagonal layout , then you have to switch to 12" centers
for my own deck, i prefer Trex and it is always my first recommendation to our customers
we also have Correct Deck, Choice Deck & TimberTech available to us
we use 16" centers and have never had a sag problem... if you go to a diagonal layout , then you have to switch to 12" centers
Not so fastMike! You have other options. Instead of switching to 12" centers, we normally run our joist perpindicular to the boards, just as we'd do if we were framing it normally. So, our joist framing would be 16"oc on a diagonal too.
blue
Just like a Jack-in-a-box you pop up with a new thought thinking out of the box.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Just like a Jack-in-a-box you pop up with a new thought thinking out of the box.
;)
My pleasure, I'm at your service!
blue
Mike, The Trex decks I have installed over 16"oc don't sag either. I wonder if those who experience sagging have failed to allow for thermal expansion on ling runs by gapping according to recommendations.Personally I don't loke trex, nor do my high end customers, but I have dopne both trex and correct-deck equally. I prefer the way Correct deck looks and works.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"I wonder if those who experience sagging have failed to allow for thermal expansion"
I follow the Trex gaping guidelines to the letter. I never had a callback for sags but now that I'm going back 2-3 years later for another job for repeat customers I check out the decks - the droops are visible, and uniform too. Doesn't matter if it's a sunny or shaded portion of the deck, high traffic area or not. That subtle sag between joists is there.
We're not talking huge money to go 12 vs 16, a few bucks in materials and time for the additional fastening required. When I explain to the customer that they can spend $x but will probably get some subtle sagging or $y and no droop, the $y's win every time.
PS: The guys I'm quoting against never give the $y option, so, I'm the most expensive guy in the mix but the customer realizes that I'm willing to point out more than the bottom line (and back it up with photos & solutions).
-Norm
Trex is plastic, that's not fine carpentry, use wood.
We get a lot of snow, too, but I don't think there's a single plastic deck up here. I know I've never seen one. The high end of the deck market up here uses red or white cedar, which is essentially rot-proof for 20-30 years--longer if you take a few extra precautions. Standard decks are built out of ordinary spruce...and with those extra details, they will last for 15-20 years, too.
The three most important framing details are:
1. Flash the top of the main beam with metal bedded in roofing pitch. I have these custom bent for me out of 22-ga. galvanised with a drip edge on both sides. I toenail the joists to the top of the beam right through the metal--that's why I bed the flashing in pitch first.
2. Make sure the flashing detail at the ledger (where the deck meets the house wall) is done right. All water running down the house wall must be flashed off the ledger. I run the flashing up under the siding, out across the top of the ledger, and finish with a 45-degree drip-edge with a fold-back 'crush' on it. I also run a thick bead of pitch along the top of the ledger before installing the flashing, just as I do for the main beam, so the nail penetrations will self seal. I don't like using aluminum flashing, but if the siding doesn't come down low enough to hide the metal above the deck face, it's easier to find a coil of coloured aluminum to match the house than to prime and spray paint a galvanised flashing.
3. Cover the tops of all the joists with pitched-down 100# felt or scrap ice & snow membrane. Let it extend a quarter inch or so either side of the joist so it will droop over time and create its own drip edge. You don't want water wicking in underneath the felt by capillary action as it rolls off the sides of the joists. (It's interesting to note that Grace has started to market a dedicated joist-top membrane for this; another example of industry learning from the practice of good carpenters.)
Another detail that helps is using hot-dip galvanised nails or stainless nails.
If you do all that right, then all you have to do is lay the deck boards correctly (heart down so the boards cup downwards to shed water), space the boards well (I use a 20d nail as a gauge), and the deck will not rot. I personally like a teak oil finish, because it's easy to apply and isn't slippery when wet (why boat decks were made from teak for years until the King of Thailand noticed his teak forests were disappearing...). The teak oil should be renewed once a year, but it is so easy to apply (just mop it on) it's no more trouble than washing the kitchen floor.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Dinosaur,Good post. In really arid climates the decking gets laid heart up since it cups in the sun after it is installed, so the cup is down, the crown is up. Regional variety.Bill
I never heard that one about laying the heart up in dry climates--just goes to show I'm not a desert type, I guess.
The reason we do it this way is that as wood dries, it shrinks parallel to the grain, so the edges of a slab-sawn board will pull towards the center of the tree from which it was sawn. Thus, whichever face of the board was closer to the heart of the tree should be laid facing downwards.
Now, if the client has the budget for VG wood (most of mine don't, sigh...), this is theoretically an academic consideration as the board isn't supposed to cup either way....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
IMO Trex is best installed using the commercial spacing(12"oc). More times than not it is only an extra joist tossed in.
Timbertech's T&G product is a nice looking product, however, it is subject to damage if for example your 250lb-plus inlaws likes to walk on it in their highheels... Definately NOT ZESTIE!