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Hi guys,
During the long duration construction of my own home, one or two folks have shown interest in my building them one. Long story short, one guy told his two friends and now the three of them have purchased lots all adjacent to each other and all would like quotes on building homes with me being the GC.
This could be a really dream year as the three would keep me happy for the rest of 2002 or could be a pesky task having three big jobs going on simutaneoulsy (remember the house I’m doing now is my first).
One item of concern I have already is what if couple # 1 and couple #2 like my estimate but couple #3 does not? Not that I care but could it cause problems down the road? And of course, all three would be custom homes so no standardization of design would be practical.
The couple of subs I’ve mentioned this to are ecstatic.
Is this the dream I see it possibly being or an Excedrin headache waiting to kick in? I’m cautioulsy optimistic as I haven’t even seen any drawings but on the flip side, if these don’t pan out, thats when I might decide to throw in the towel and given up my business for so-called greener pastures doing who knows what?
Any thoughts, advice, Super Bowls picks?
Thanks in advance.
Mike
Replies
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Mike, if you think you are ready for it, go for it.
If you think you need help, seek out a mentor.
blue
*Michael, It strikes me as a very big bite to take particularly since it sounds like you've never had multiple large projects going at once. My experience over the years has been that one custom home was a full + time job, but I and my two partners did the foundation, framing, and finish carpentry ourselves and spent a lot of time supervising on site. We would have three houses going at once, but each of us would have responsibility for one, and help the others with our tools as we could. Perhaps if you are very good at ramroding subs and have very reliable subs you could do something like this, but I would be very cautious about starting three simultaneously. How about starting one and phasing in the others as sequentially?
*Mike, doing your own home, and doing someone else's are two entirely different greasy pigs. Remember what it took to hold onto the piggy when building your own house. Now multply that several times, and you have the beginning of an understanding of the feats of wrassling you could be called on to do, just to keep your head up when doing the house for someone else. In your shoes, I think I would talk to all of them, and ask the second two to hold off while you do the house for the first. Do the one house. Learn from it. Then take on the other two together. If that keeps working, then you can start to look at having several going at once.Doing only one for your first grab at the brass ring, will limit your liability if something starts to go wrong.
*Mike, if you listen to all the naysayers, and hang around the same people, in five years, you'll still be in the same boat as you are today.You are in the building business? Right?Someone wants a house built. Right? They want three built next to each other, right?Get your paperwork done asap. Get them signed. Then, do a good job. Remember, every contrator you talk to will be interested in doing the three in a row. Get them organized. Get them done.Since you have three, don't figure on doing any of the work yourself. Sub it all out. YOu cant be a sub, and a builder, if you have three houses under way....at least not at this stage of your career. Maybe you can juggle that ten years from now...blue
*Even though our company has always worked the way that Ted Temple's did, I think that you should go for it. You will have to sub it all out but I think that you will find that the construction part of the work will be the least of your concerns. If you have good subs, they don't need you hanging around all the time. They will need you to clear the decks for them and be available to answer questions. The questions will take 30 minutes per day. The rest of your time will be preparing for the next phases and dealing with the owner and architect.This is where you can really run into problems with multiple projects because it is where you run into problems with a single project. You need to stay organized and to separate the projects so that each gets the attention that it requires. Keep documentation on everything as it occurs and keep this all separate. Insist that the owners have as complete plans and specs as possible before you give them a price. Most of all, be flexible and honest with everyone. Go for it.
*Blue: I am in your camp. When I had a chance to build my first curved stairway, I got so tired of people saying, " How can you build one, you never have before?" I am glad I listened to my gut feelings instead of them.Michael: I would say go for it, you may feel like a juggler in a circus trying to keep all those plates spinning on the plates, but the adrenaline of this new venture should pull you through.Good luck
*mike: if you can organize the business office end , you can do it.. if you can't it will spiral out of control...if you can orgaize for one, you can do it for 3.. they will NOT all come on line at the same time..the bid documents will NOT all be ready at the sametime, but once they are you can bid and schedule them ... IF you can get a working system in place in time.. here put this hat on.. office manager.. here's another one .. estimator & specifier... salesman...project manager...job super...employer... you will need at least one full time employee unless your subs can provide ALL of the incidental labor...usually , circumstances will make it impossible to bring all 3 on line simultaneously.... so see what you can get going
*Guys, Thanks for all the input. Opinions for or against, its all being well noted as I can glean tidbits from every one of you fine folks. I guess my first stage is for them to get me some prints and work up some cost estimates. As I said, the subs I spoke with really like the idea so it works for them. I think I'll definietly give all of them an estimate and then let the schedule work as it may. Doing all three at once would be more work yet possibly easier for getting subs there. I just don't know if all three couples would be ready financially to do them all it once. If I did any of them, I'd sub out probably 95% of it maybe just doing some of the custom trim work, cleanup, layout, etc.? For the moment, I'm not saying "no" to anything if you know what I mean... Thanks again and I'll keep you posted as to what develops.Mike
*> How about starting one and phasing in the others as sequentially? I think this is good advice. You subs can't do 3 at the same time anyway. I think you'll have a hard time keeping paperwork and materials straight between the 3 houses. ie: The framing sub will borrow plywood from house #1 to finish house #2 without telling you. Mike Smith said:i you can organize the business office end , you can do it.. if you can't it will spiral out of control...I think he's also 100% right. How well did you do with the paperwork on your own house? Did you get the bills paid on time, or do you just have a box full of unsorted paperwork? Only you can answer that question.Good luck, whatever you decide.
*Rimoldi... You have 3 interested. That's a long long ways from having 3 foundations to dig on the same Tuesday. And, if you never have built a home for someone,b good luck!!Call me in at $80/hour when you need a project manager job crisis intervention.near the stream,ajWhere's the location... need to get my head wrapped around this idea and check out the local entertainment possibilities along with the site specific building particulars.
*Lots of good advice. All I can add is that the builder putting up a neighbor's house is also doing a remodel a coupla blocks away. When a sub finishes on one, he moves his stuff to the other. I've seen this with his framers, drywall, and stucco guys. Very convenient. And I hear them yelling across the woods to each other throughout the day--kinda funny. Either you're good at scheduling or you aren't, and this would put those skills to a test.Also be aware that 3 isn't exactly 3 x 1. Here's the example from a pop-business consultant named Roger von Oech. Imagine what it takes to make a strawberry shortcake. Making two of them is similar, but just a bit additional work. Now imagine making 1000. Suddenly you have new problems, such as union truckers to haul in the materials, storage facilities for all the strawberries, etc, etc. Three houses might bring stuff that would never occur with just one. Be prepared for that.Good luck. Sounds exciting!
*Excellant post Mr Cloud. And I didn't even scratch the surface of what really needs to be handled well with customers verses doing your own home... And that is...Working with them!... Do you realize just how many decisions you made as Grand Dictator..with instant authority over budget, color, timing, brands, supply houses, delivery, locations, amounts, yes, no, maybe, I need to know now or we lose a week, I need this... in 10 minutes, My sub is early by a week, can you quickly pick out the lights, Wow, that hall looks tight now that the drywall is up, can you fix it... you should have known that wouldn't work, don't blame the architect, you are the builder and should know!near the stream,aj
*Michael, read aj's posts closely. I'm not being a naysayer, but three custom homes on your maiden race is unrealistic. You can be the best scheduler in the world and you still have to babysit, and sometimes beg. You can create a beautiful critical path schedule and I'll lay you dollars to donuts that you'll revise it weekly. If building is going hot and heavy, as it has in my area for the past few years, even your oldest subs can't make their scheduling comitments. Also as aj indicates, a custom home is much more complicated involving you, an architect, and an owner: a lot of egos, money, decissions, expectations. Some other posters made a good point that these jobs probably wouldn't break at the same time even if you wanted them to, but my two cents is to get one going asap and see how it goes. Keep us posted
*Michael in the world of dog sledding if you aint the lead dog the view is always the same. F'm go for it. I've seen builders juggle five at a time and never break a sweat and I've seen builders who couldn't handle two at a time. It's all in how you deal with it. Stick your neck out and see what the view is like. If you don't you'll always wonder what if.
*I say go for it too... just to be clear...I just happen to know that what I posted above... had much to do with my early day surprises when I thought I knew enough of the curve balls to get on base.near the stream,aj"What do you mean stairs should end flush to a carpeted 2nd floor?!"
*Mike go for it bud. this is what you been waiting for. maybe this will take you to the next level the one ya want. If Id live in florida id swing a hammer for ya. Good luck.
*Mike:Go for it. In reality, as mentioned above, all three won't happen at the same time. In fact, don't be surprised if only one or two of them make it past schematic design. No reflection on you, thats just the nature of the beast.As things get rolling, don't forget the cardinal rule of NOT mixing money. Yours with theirs, theirs with each others'. Co-mingling of funds is a big no-no.
*Hi Mike,Divide and conquer! you know, ya gotta keep 'em separated..from the start. Treat them as individual entities. Being they're friends you can expect a contstant state of comparative analysis. This would couch you in a position of heightened vulnerability.That said, involve others from the start with the big picture in mind. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. New England in a quirk by 3! Good luck paisan,Dan-O
*Mike,Put your head between your knees, squeeze your cheeks and jump. Nobody ever made a buck playing it safe. Just think in the back of your mind all those people who said you wouldn't last( in business). Give the world the "finger", grit your teeth and have a ball proving everybody wrong.My 2 cents
*Mike:Long time no see!The way I see it you have to figure out what's the worst thing that can happen.Scenario 1:Take on all three jobs, assuming that things will happen simultaneously, then they don't and all of a sudden your subs aren't so interested. You figure "it's esier to do it myself than to keep calling guys that don't show up" The job takes way longer, you are working 18 hrs a day because you are a responsible guy, and did I mention that there are 3 houses... Final result, you lose 3 friends, lots of $ and a whole year of your life. All because you hve tried driving a formula 1 car when your practice has been only on Hondas.Scenario 2:You make a complete commitment to leave ALL of your tools at your own house, and use the most important tool of all... the phone. Get VERY detailed plans and specs, VERY firm quotes, a good bunch of forms to keep track of change orders, material delivs and especially, BILLS. As everyone else has said the 3 won't all come in at the same time, so you start one and work the bugs out of your new management system (because you aren't a carpenter anymore, you're a manager) Then as things progress, and the other project is ready, you can decide whether to accept it or not. You can't be expected to make a commitment to anyone until they are ready to make a commitment to you. End result, you are a calmer, happier person, don't lose any friends, and still get to make some $ (if you quote it right- the second challenge).I don't see any advantage in trying to do all 3 at once, at least not until you have lots of time-tested procedures in place. I liked some ones metaphor about the greasy pig. Catching your own greasy pig is one thing, catching three other people's pigs is quite another all together.Don't say no to anybody yet, but don't sign up to sail around the world on your maiden voyage either.Good LuckAndy
*Hey Andy, How ya been? Good points you mentioned. I think the 100% manager, 0% worker is the best method of doing these jobs. I like some of your analogies as well. You and some of the other guys have hit it right on the head, I've essentially got nothing to lose if I run it my way and manage accordingly. As I said, if these don't even make it to building stage, I'll likley have to go find some job elsewhere so its a last ditch effort to run the jobs as well as they could be run if I do indeed get them. I like the forms and tracking idea too...Thanks. As of a few days ago, I've spoken with the folks but haven't heard about any more details. The one guy is wanting me and my draftsmanengineer friend to work with him on the design phase so that will take some time but I think it will be easier to build something you helped design instead of it coming from someone else? I could be wrong??? And these won't likely top $250k each in price so I doubt if I'll see any elaborate arc. designs or anything like that. Thanks for your input.Mike
*Just because the house doesn't have a big budget doesn't mean that you can't design it well or make it construction friendly. One of the nicest homes we have ever built was designed by my partner and built by us for $40 psf (17 yrs ago). You can have a very positive impact if you are involved early on. Are you getting paid for this? You will be taken a lot more seriously if you are.
*Schelling, Well, I'm hoping to get paid for any design and development time...Otherwise, I wouldn't really want to be involved. Oh, I agree you can make any project nice irregardless of total cost. What I was meaning was I won't be looking at any elaborate designs with barrel vault ceilings, clerestory libraries or the $12k walk-in sauna. Mike
*Some people make things happen.....Some people watch things happen....some people wonder what happened.......
*Jim,I'm making, I'm watching and I'm wondering...Can I do all three?Mike
*>I'm making, I'm watching and I'm wondering...Can I do all three? Yep....although I tend to watch more than anything else....if I were in your shoes I'd make it happen. First thing I'd do is incorporate though, so if it goes bad you don't loose the farm. :-) Remember what "Bob the Builder" (ask any kid) say's, "Can we do it? Yes we can! We've got work to do!
*True. The dog who trots around finds a bone. Even if I had to sacrifice most of the profit hiring help, it would be worth the experience, and do wonders to establish a reputation.