I need some information about kitchen cabinet sizes.
I’m an accomplished cook, and I want 30″ deep kitchen base cabinets, with full extension trays behind doors or drawers in all base cabinets. This will allow more counter space and more storage underneath. I also want counters to be 36″ high.
(Both my husband and I are taller than average, so I don’t think reaching the back of the counters or reaching over the counters will be a problem.)
My problem is that I have not found any cabinet manufacturers that offer 30″ deep by 36″ high base cabinets. (We’re in the design stages for a new house.) Does this mean that the these cabinets will have to be custom made?
Edited 10/8/2006 9:31 am ET by doprou
Edited 10/8/2006 10:35 am ET by doprou
Replies
Does this mean that the these cabinets will have to be custom made?
yes..
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I don't think I have ever seen 30" standard cabinets. They could certainly be made by a custom shop but they will likely be very expensive. 24" cabs allow 2 parts to be made out of a single sheet of plywood or other sheet goods while 30" will be very wasteful.
If you are serious about doing this you need to be prepared to pay a premium price.
Tom
Douglasville, GA
30" is not that wastefull with baltic birch at 5'x5'custom is the way to go but not always more expensive, most of our jobs are custom cabs.The bigget problem I see is the pull-oiuts. I don't know how available a 28" slide hardware is...and then that will take more frontal space in the room to get it all the way out. That willl increase the floor space between cabs and an island if that is part of the job design
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True if you can get 5' sheet goods it's not that bad but if they are looking for cherry or some other high end finish the materials cost will be a good bit higher. Compared to stock cabs they will be quite a bit more IMHO but compared to custom cabs of a more common size the difference may not be all that much.
Tom
Douglasville, GA
The only place you'd need the cherry veneer in on an end panel unit. some kitchens have only one or two of them.
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Compared to stock cabs they will be quite a bit more IMHO but compared to custom cabs of a more common size the difference may not be all that much.
I dissagree, the off fall from the 30" base will work fine for the 14 or 16" uppers that would work well if your making the bases deeper. I dont see the waste that you refer to. I've done some(30" deep bases) and like any kitchen job with sheet goods, never seems to be that much waste.
EDIT; I'd definitly up charge for the work but not nearly what you might think, hell its not that much more work.
Doug
Edited 10/8/2006 6:05 pm ET by DougU
Which part do you disagree with
Compared to stock cabs they will be quite a bit more
compared to custom cabs of a more common size the difference may not be all that much.
Around here custom cabs of any size cost far more than any stock cabs. Tom
Douglasville, GA
Around here custom cabs of any size cost far more than any stock cabs.
I've been building custom cabs for some time now and my prices, and that of the people that I've worked for, are competitive with some of the store bought cabs. Obviously not the cheap big box cabs but certainly some of the higher priced big box cabs.
Region has a lot to do with it so maybe thats why you see such price discrepancy, not really sure.
I trimed out a house in Cedar Falls, Ia last summer, home of Birtch cab company, and I could easily have built better cabs then the HO got from Birtch for less money then he paid and they would have been full custom.
So custom doesnt always mean more money, I think thats a misconception that a lot of people have.
I agree that in this particular case the boxes are going to cost more, as well as the hardware to do the full pull outs, the later certainly being the bigger expense.
Doug
Store bought is stock, semi-custom, and custom .We get fairly competitive with custom.Maybe when he said not same pricing, he meant that not same as cheapo or smaller in same quality
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IIRC a lot of different sheet goods can be had in 5'x10'...
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28" is pretty common http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&cat=3,43614&p=43616&ap=1 , the 30's and 32's are hard.
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I don't know how available a 28" slide hardware is
Very available! The full extension Blum's are somewhere in that neighborhood, the hidden ones.
Doug
Not really, specially when you make the uppers deeper for ease of reach and more storage.
Sheet goods are only a small portion of the total cost. Doors, drawers and labor are the majority
I'd be very surprised to find a custom shop that isn't going to upcharge for 30 inch cabs and deeper uppers. I build furniture and cabs myself so I pretty familiar with the materials and processes involved. Custom cabs are going to cost more than any standard cab and deeper is going to cost more than that. That doesn't mean it isn't worth it but to give the impression that it won't cost more is certainly misleading.
Maybe the upcharge won't be as much as I'm thinking but if they are looking at stock cabs and hoping to get custom 30" cabs for anything close I think they will be surprised at the difference. Tom
Douglasville, GA
Yes, but it will be worth it.
BTW, I know pullout trays behind doors are very popular, but have you considered just having deep drawers? To me it's annoying to have to open doors then pull out a drawer. Extra movements mean extra time, and when I'm cooking I try to do things as efficiently as possible. To each their own though.
Actually, I have both pull out trays behind doors and deep drawers now. And I like the trays/doors much better. The large drawers are heavy, and I'm forever banging the sides and front of the drawers with the drawer contents.
Edited 10/8/2006 9:38 am ET by doprou
That is the way kitchen design is moving now since as we all age, everyone is asking for pullouts. It's gotten harder to get down there....
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I put 30" deep base cabineets in my own kitchen years ago, I built the cabinets myself. The drawers are all on full extension pullouts.
The storage is great, and yes, EVERYTHING is on full extension slides to prevent an archeological expedition such as searching for the elusive kitchen item buried deep in a cavern-like hole in the base cabinets.
I'll vouch for their worth, both in the storage underneath and the added working room on the countertop above.
I did make the uppers slightly deeper as well.
My wife is 5'1 so I didn't raise the height of the countertop. She has no problem accessing anything in the kitchen.
Best bet would be to get in touch with a local cabinet shop. You'll pay more per running foot of cabinet due to the added depth, which means more materials, but the upcharge shouldn't be substantial.
Shoot, at 5'1" your wife is already almost down on the floor, LOLI almost always build uppers at 14" deep. It brings the face loser and gives better space for large plates and platters
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Not necessarily. You could find someone to add the depth to a set of stock cabinets that you like and build full extension drawers to fit the newly deep cabinet bases. Wouldn't be that involved to do so and may end up being less than full custom cabinet work.
Might be worth looking into.
JT
Use all drawers, the pullouts are a pita, and slow to get into.
here are some 30"deep drawers on full ext guides.Work very well. The corner ones have lots more, and more accessable, room than one of those usless carosels..
Bud
Isn't 36" the standard for counter height? That's how high my range is, and that's how high I made mine (gotta love makin' your own). I'll have mostly drawers, except where it's inconvenient - a little 12" filler cab, the sink base, and a half-hidden corner will have doors.did<!---->Cure Diabetes - Death Valley 2006!<!---->
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ditdahdit,,,
On the little filler ones try this..Makes a usless lower into usable space..
Bud
Make your own sushi ?
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We did that witha set of full height where there was only 10" between the freezer and the wall
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Mine's actually going to work well as a sheet-pan hidey place - that drawer thing would be a close second choice, though.did<!---->Cure Diabetes - Death Valley 2006!<!---->
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Bud,Just to clarify, those corner drawers are in the corner between adjacent rows of standard 24" base cabinets?I like that idea. It looks better and seems more useful than a susan.
Yea they are 30" deep in place of the lazy susan..they are 16 1/2" wide and they have at least as much room as a susan and are all accessable without kneeling down...
BudEdit to add; The 16 1/2 width takes up 12" in the run of cabinets.
Edited 10/8/2006 12:32 pm ET by seb
Definitely go for the 30" ones, and just do drawers, not slide-outs behind a door - door has to come all the way open first, and it WILL be in the way.
I bought a case of 28" full-extension slides on sale once, and built all these for my shop - top is 36" deep by 39" high; perfect for me at 6'.
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Another tip I have done here is to go without a toe kick; just let the counter overhang 3-4", and the drawers go to the floor - adds another drawer for free.
Forrest
Do you have any pictures of a kitchen with drawers to the floor and no toe-kick?Does the bottom rail of the face frame just rest on the floor?My wife is Vietnamese and tends to prepare food on the floor. I guess that's typical in her culture. She likes the idea of drawers down on the floor.
I don't have any pix off-hand. I have done a kitchen cabinet set with that counter overhang and "Euro" style, that is, full overlay doors and drawer fronts (no visible frame at all), where the bottoms of the drawer fronts were only 1/4" off the floor.
Make sure the floor and drawer are level, for a 28" pull-out with only 1/4" lower clearance!
For face-frame cabinetry, the bottom rail is just scribed to the floor - I like to avoid even 1/4 rnd or shoe in this case.
Forrest
Gotta love it!All that organized storage and you still can't see the bench top for all the layers piled on top.
I noticed a couple of empty drawers there too!Back to the sarcasm thread now...
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That's gorgeous - I'm in love!
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With 30" deep cabinets, you'll be paying more for subtop installation and countertops, most countertops are about 26" unless you're will to pay for custom work with wider material. Another thing to consider is that some items may be harder to reach for.
Aloha
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"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
I'm pretty sure that Omega cabinets make them. I can order their cabinets in 1" increments for width and 3" increments for height and depth.
I'm not sure if their drawers go full depth, though deeper ones could be built and Omega's drawer fronts could be used.
http://www.omegacab.com/locate.asp
We use nothing but Blum drawerslides, and I cannot get anything from Blum longer than for 24-depth cabs.
36-depth basecabs make you reach too far back for the uppers, IMHO, even when the uppers are made to a depth of, say, 18 inches.
36-depth bases, if you could make drawers full depth, would require another foot of clearance room between a run and an island, or between runs in a galley. It just doesn't make sense to me.
If I want more storage and counter space, I would just make the kitchen big enough to have more runs of basecabs, and I would design in an island with a 42 or 48 inch width.
You're just not looking hard enough! Blum Tandems:
Extra Length + Full ExtensionShow off your craftsmanship with the highest quality drawer slide on the market. Lifetime Warranty!
Heavy duty full extension for panel cabinets. For 5/8" maximum thick drawer boxes. Requires blocking when used in Face Frame applications. Side mount application only - Must block out for face frame applications.
23-1/4" Drawer requires 23-3/4" Minimum Interior Depth
25-3/16" Drawer requires 25-3/4" Minimum Interior Depth
27-3/16" Drawer requires 27-3/4" Minimum Interior Depth
29-1/8" Drawer requires 29-5/8" Minimum Interior Depth
http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/GroupID/Cabinet%20Drawer%20Slides/CatID/Drawer%20Slides%2C%20Blum%26%230174%3B%20Tandem%20100%23%20Class/SubCatID/Tandem%20Slides%20Full%20Extension
The web only has prices for the 30" at the moment, but I've gotten a bunch of the 25" ones from them.
Related discussion:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=79699.1
I absolutely love the deep counters. On thing it let us do was put a compost bin in the top:
http://www.frankeksd.com/productdetail.php?prodid=48&node=14&group=16&lvl=1
I don't understand the slides behind doors thing - like others have said it is so much easier to just pull out the drawer. Other than the pantry I only did one pullouts behind door unit, and that was to visually balance with the sink unit at the other end of the island.
Oh yea, to your original question - yep, custom...
"I don't understand the slides behind doors thing - like others have said it is so much easier to just pull out the drawer. Other than the pantry I only did one pullouts behind door unit, and that was to visually balance with the sink unit at the other end of the island."However, with pullouts you can make them movable for storing different heigh goods."Depending", I think that a couple of base units should have pullouts with adjustable shelves.But mostly drawers.
OOPS! Sorry to have made the earlier post criticizing a kitchen design with a basedepth of 36. I see you are considering 30.
Good idea!
And I now see that slides are available longer. My Blum catalogs are incomplete.
Now, make your uppers a cost-effective depth of 16 or even 18. The siderips from the 48-wide stock used to make the lowers can go for the uppers.
Scherr's can make the cabs at any size you want. Go here: http://www.scherrs.com