Assuming one already owns the land and wants to build a 3000 sq ft house for $90-100k, most labor supplied by myself and a friend. This would be a basic peasant house.
is this within the realm of possibility? and what would it take?
THANKS
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Do-able for sure if you just did a shell and enough of the inside to get a CO.
A four corner box.
Thanks Steve.
That's kinda what I'm going for. Four corner box, gable roof, basic finishes, two story.
Glad to know that is at least within the realm of possibility
“[Deleted]”
I am currently designing a high performance house for myself that I will be building almost on my own. I will be hiring out the site work, plumbing, electrical & solar but will be doing radiant heat myself. The house is 1600sqft on the main floor with an additional 1000sqft in the basement. My estimate stands at $195k. (My lot is on a farm that has been in the family for years) Largely due to premium choices in the building envelope and mechanicals.
It is very difficult to say if your budget is possible without knowing your location, proposed mechanical system, proposed finishes, etc.
I'm in North Texas so we have a mildish climate. Getting anything above code minimum insulation/air tightness and mechanicals will never pay for itself so the plan is to go as basic as possible in that area
Being in North TX certainly helps reduce the budget of the envelope and the mechanical system.
Very true. There was an article on Green building advisor. In climates like mine, doubling the r value of the envelope is approx $20 a year in energy savings. I did the math and it was accurate for my case.
I think solar panels make the most economic sense. Generating energy with solar is already too cheap and it's getting cheaper every day
The 2019 National Construction Estimator gives the average cost of a good quality house at $125 / sq ft. Of that direct costs are about $100. Aprox. 1/2 is labor. So you've got about $50 / sq ft in materials. This should be adjusted for location somewhat, but mostly location will affect the labor costs. If you cut quality of materials by 20% and pay absolutely nothing for labor and incur no indirect costs, you are still looking at $40 / sq ft for materials.
There are three factors that affect housing cost. Complexity, quality and size. Assuming you cut the first two to a minimum the only way to cut costs further is to make it smaller.
In short there is probably no way to built for $30 / sq ft.
Mike_Mahan
THANKS!! For that info that's great to know. Even $40 is great when architects are telling me $150 psf at the minimum.
In this county, new average quality tract housing, "brick" houses, go for 100-110 psf that includes land and garage etc. I also happen to know that the biggest City in the county charges developers millions in "impact" fees that the developers have to recoup.
Labor is also very high in Dallas. I'm pretty sure it's closer to 70% than it is to 50%, just by looking at some HVAC or framing quotes I have received in the past.
I like how you word It. Complexity, quality, and size.
I'm building a 4 corner box with no garage. I even made the house slightly bigger than needed to make it a box as Jose Ruiz said in his book that doing this can save money
Quality is bargain basement. Epoxied concrete floor, ply wood upstairs, cheap windows, basically a peasant house but not a demeaning one like we often see.
I don't think you can definitively say that.
He hasn't told us about the type of foundation, well/septic or city connection, anticipated permit/impact fees etc etc.
Steve, I made it a point to buy county land. I had bought city land but the restrictions and rules and permit fees were a mile long do I cut my losses and sold it and bought in the county.
County has no permits or fees or inspections. They only require me to have a pe or architect or inspector of my choosing sign off on three things -1. Foundation before concrete is poured, two framing before drywall, and building before move in.
I will have to be on septic but electricity is already on site and everyone on the street uses a private water company.
There are several fixed or mostly fixed costs so decreasing the size doesn't help much.
A well or septic will cost the same no matter what
Plumbing doesn't NEED to cost more on a big house
Electrical is cheap IF he can do it himself
Lumber is cheap
Mike_Mahan
Do you have comparable pricing estimate for renovation scope?
38 year old 2800 sf 2-story 2x6 stick-built home on vented crawl space
Needs new building envelope including roof, siding, windows, and doors
Needs updated MEP as all original including HVAC
All interior finishes never replaced and sadly outdated thus in need
Structure is sound with slight repair work due to moisture damage but masonry and framing structurally sound.
My plans are to make it re-newed and upgraded with better quality products and finishes using CertainTeed Landmark Pro roofing, Royal Building’s Celect and Cedar Renditions siding, Andersen E Series or Windsor Pinnacle Select windows and ProVia Doors.
The MEP systems have not been identified nor interior finishes.
I’m in need of the average SF cost to rennovate so I don’t over build the project thus stripping my equity out of the house.
House located in Northwest region of Virginia about 90 miles from Washington DC
Thank you
That's a great looking house.
There are too many factors in renovation for any quick calculations. There is a National Renovation and Insurance Repair estimator available from Craftsman press. You might find the attached of some use. It gives new construction costs. You might be able to use it by elimininating trades you don't need in renovation.
Thank you for your assistance.
When I was building my own 20 years ago I went to several Marvin dealers and asked them if they had any mis-ordered windows. They would gladly sell a whole stack for $400 or so. They didn't all match in color so I primed and painted them to match and they still look great.
You don't mention how much building experience you bring to this, or how it will be financed (adding in interest on a loan). I started building back in the hippie era when the 'Owner Built Home' (a Ken Kerns classic) was inspiring lots of us peasants. Recycling can reduce costs quite a bit if you have a bit of extra time and have access to a good upscale waste stream. I ran out of room for all the windows and doors I could find. Now places like Craigslist can sometimes have good finds, though it's amazing how many people think garbage is worth big bucks. I've also recycled old barns for lumber. So it partly depends on how much time you have to get it done.
Time ain't money when all you got is time.
Hi, I don't have a lot of experience. I've framed a shed and I do like to build furniture but that's about it. I can mig and tig weld but I don't think I'll use a lot of that in building a house.
One skill I do have that'll help is I'm good in SketchUp and as they say planning is 99 percent of the work and building is 1%, so I can build the house to the last nail digitally before we even cut one piece of lumber.
I will be paying cash for this, which is why I want to do it so inexpensively. My friends who finance are so lax about money that theyve spent 100k before building even begins.
Architect 30k, bank closing costs 20k, general contractor 50k, you get the idea.
I agree with you that the deals are hard to come by on Craigslist anymore but I still check for windows and siding and insulation from time to time
Ninjj,
Who’s the this they say that 99% of building is planning?
Hassan Fathy, who wrote "architecture for the poor" said if you gave him 3000 hours to build a house he would spend 2900 hours in planning and design and 100 hours building
No kidding, we’ve got a guy that tweets all sorts of bs and we’re expected to believe what he says?
That's so stupid it's not believable. What it tells me is that Hassan Fathy has no actual construction experience.
How will you finance this? If you still have to work a full-time job it means that house building will be an after-work and weekend gig. Maybe you can get in 30 hours a week but your friend will fall by the side pretty quickly because he will get tired of spending his free time on your house. Building a house is not the same as building a shed, it's not even in the same universe. I've seen experienced carpenters spend years building their own houses. You have no relevant experience to bring to the job which means you'll spend huge amounts of time trying to figure out what to do next or correcting what you did wrong. Anyone can do 90% of the typical drudge work of home building, it's the last 10% that will take 70% of your time and money.
We were looking at homes for one of my sons last year and found one that was a great deal until we looked at it. It had obviously been built by someone with no experience and on the cheap and over a 15 year period. Rather than being an asset, it was a liability since whoever bought the land was going to have to tear the house down first.
I'm not saying you can't do it, I am saying you can't build a 3,000 sq foot house while working full time, paying for it out of your paycheck, depending on friends for help and do it in a timely manner for anything close to $30,00 a sq ft.
You would be far better off to plan a small house that can be added on to, build that so you have a place to live then add on more as you like.
"Architecture for the Poor" has nothing to do with low cost housing in developed countries. It deals with extreme poverty in Egypt, where a major problem was bilharzia, a parasitic water borne illness. The primary construction method in the book was mud brick. Construction economics were entirely different than anything in developed countries. It was about architectural solutions to social and public health problems, and not particularly about construction.
[quote]Mike_Mahan | Mar 02, 2020 12:22pm | #23
"Architecture for the Poor" has nothing to do with low cost housing in developed countries. It deals with extreme poverty in Egypt, where a major problem was bilharzia, a parasitic water borne illness. The primary construction method in the book was mud brick. Construction economics were entirely different than anything in developed countries. It was about architectural solutions to social and public health problems, and not particularly about construction.[/quote]
it does spend the first third or so of the book dealing with how to build affordable houses for poor people. his solution was to build using ready available materials that cost next to nothing - mud and straw mostly.
I build furniture, and one thing I know is if I design it completely in the digital realm, putting it together in the physical realm is a lot easier and faster so I am a big believer in having a structure fully planned out before construction starts so there are no surprises later.
"I am saying you can't build a 3,000 sq foot house while working full time, paying for it out of your paycheck, depending on friends for help and do it in a timely manner for anything close to $30,00 a sq ft."
I appreciate the feedback, and you are probably right but as Mandela said, " it always seems impossible until its done"
_Ninja,
Go for it. It might be good to lower your risk by going smaller with a design you can expand on as you get resources and experience, but you seem to have the drive and the brains. Obviously there are a lot of unknowns, but problem solving skill and determination count for a lot.
Thank you sir. The 33 a SQ ft goal is probably not realistic but I'm shooting that low so they if I end up over at say 50 bucks psf it's still a darn inexpensive build.
I need to stop being lazy and out together a spreadsheet with pricing for the materials I'll need and that'll give me a better idea. Thanks!
I was surprised you only got one "negative nancy" who tried to crush your dreams. I seem to remember being swamped by them 20 years ago on this very same forum.
You can do it. Just make sure you keep in mind that it will test you like you never have been tested before.
Get a shell up as quickly as you can.
Remember there will be many times when you feel like giving up.
Take a walk around some jobsites and acquaint yourself with all of the parts and sizes of things and see if it all makes sense to you.
Keep rough track of the hours that your friend helps you and make sure that he knows you will help him with his stuff afterwards.
There are a number of people who come on here, or reddit, or countryhouseplans.com etc etc who obviously have no clue. You seem to be thinking things through pretty thoroughly.
Steve, what was your screen name back then? I’m sure there were a couple meatheads, but my memory tells me by far most members were very helpful to those with questions.
I hope I am not mistaking this forum for another on that subject.
I can't remember my screen name.
I do remember poring thru many, many pages of comments and printing out reams of paper for future reference as I found most of the discussion to be tremendously useful. It was a lively place back then in fact I ended up calling Frenchy Dampier and he was very willing to help.
I kind of think all those old breaktime posts got deleted somehow. Piffin, AdirondackJack, Mongo were a few of the names I remember.
With those names, this was the place.
Piffin is awaiting a lung transplant, Jack has passed on quite a while back. Mongo is doing fine!
Not a negative Nancy, more like a Realistic Nancy. I've been in the construction business for over 50 years. I've advised and helped dozens if not hundreds of people with everything from advice based on experience to hands-on work. I've been down the do-it-myself road with lots of people. One of my early works comrades designed his own home and built it with cash. He was a very skilled carpenter and smart enough to start with the small stuff so he built a MIL house first, maybe 400 sf on 2 levels. As soon as the siding was on he and his wife moved in, no windows, no doors, slit trench and a pitcher pump to bath with. He and his wife pecked away at it for 6 years and it still wasn't finished. Eventually, he started a much modified and smaller main house with the MIL house incorporated in it. Another 5 years passed, the original budget was dust in the rearview mirror. Due to an unseen health problem the house was never finished.
My uncle, a Delta pilot built his own house. Beautiful house, he had lots of money and his free time came efficient blocks of days. Still took him 6 years. His kids were grown by the time it was totally finished. He passed his budget about year 2.
I could go on but I've made my point. What would be the point of helping people if all you told them was what they wanted to hear?
My experience is that I did it. It was 20 years ago but I did a 3000 sq ft house with a 3 car garage for 145K+ the lot. That was finished inside and out. I had one advantage over ninja in that I had framed houses for a year so I had some experience not only with the process but with the physical difficulty of it.
ClumsyNinja sounds like a young single guy (so not too many distractions or obligations)who likely has enough energy, has done some homework and likely will be content to leave out a lot of the finishing work for now to get a livable house.
I wouldn't recommend a two story like I did because the work becomes very difficult when you go up. I would also recommend that ninja build a shed or a tiny house or something to get a feel for it.
I saw this article
https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/02/barndominium-one-story-or-two/
Now I'm serving guessing the decision to go with a 2 story as a money saving alternative
Thank you sir. Actually my friend is between jobs so I'll be paying him a fair wage to help him out and I hope he can pick up some marketable skills from doing this.
I know I'll get tested. Lord its nerve wracking just thinking about it sometimes but it'll get done. I've been in planning for a year but I feel like I've barely scratched the surface
Lol. Actually middle aged, with a wife and kids.
If I can get it built in two years it'll be a win.
The lot is about 20 minutes door to door from our current house so one thing I've contemplated is building the wall in sections at our house and trailering to the site
I'm not really scared of framing. Coming from metal work I find wood working to be very easy and enjoyable. It's everything else I'm a little nervous about. Grading and site prep, Correctly doing the AC system- leak proof plumbing, siding and most of all, the drywall (although I will probably hire this out)
Let me place this here
Percentages mean nothing, really.
Neither does sq ft price.
Dollars matter.