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I have been using the plumb-it level it is ajustable up to aprox 16′, you just have to be careful not to bow it in the middle when plumbing up.
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JonC -
Plumb bobs are available in difference sizes and weights. I know surveyors that use their bobs to pound stakes. That takes a Manly bob - nice, too - all brass.
Another trick is to insert the bob into an open can of oil. Just don't kick it over.
Or - spend $ and get that extending level (not Levelution) that Tool Crib used to carry. I tried one that a contractor had. Slick. Sturdy. I think one model would extend to about 13', another to 17'.
They used a female to model it, as if that would influence our buying decision.
ToolBear
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I usually use a four foot level and a straight stud with a couple of standoff blocks , one nailed to each end to span any crooked studs that may have slipped past the culling stage .
A guy I used to work with once used a concrete block for a plumb bob on a windy day (You would have to know this guy )
Chuck
*I found that with a 4' level attached to a 10' extension, I couldnt read a 1/8" difference in 10'. I can read under 1/16" easily with a plumb-bob. ( Well not easily, I had to start using reading glasses a few years back. About ready to move up from 1:25 to 1:5) Had a really nice antique brass plumb-bob stolen recently. I suspect the plumber's helper. What the hell would a plumber do with a plumb-bob?JonC
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I use a 4 foot aluminum level. I see no need to plumb plate to plate unless you frame so sloppily that the sides of the studs do not align with the plates. A stud warped beyond recognition of course will reveal itself. striving for 1/64th accuracy in framing is pointless unless your intend to add temporary braces about every 32 inches.. Did it occur to anyone that a pair of top plates can be just as warped as the studs they rest on? Heres two other questions.. Do you still set strings off the top plates to sight align walls? Is the method of sheathing walls on the ground regional? I have never seen anyone In this region sheath walls before they stand them up. I can guarantee you a pre sheathed wall will be no more plumb than the foundation is level.
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Dan, I'm a DIYer so i don't give them steady use. FHB did a review in the last year and the company claims to do extensive cycle testing at temperature extrems and they stand up. They also recognize that even without abuse, normal temperature fluctuations will result in distortions so both the vials and the joints are adjustable to recalibrate. The joints are precisely machined, rugged and self aligning when you assemble.
The only down sides I've noticed: the handles that tighten the sections together mean that only one side can be placed flush to a surface so sometimes you have to turn the level around; the joint tongue at one end of the 2' sections means that that end won't go tight into a corner; the aluminim is slick so be careful where you lean them, they'll slide off, I dinged a cabinet that way. (Some of the dealers now have accessory rafter hook, metal stud magnet and nail to framing adapters.)
The job I bought it for was installing cabinets in a kitchen and the 8' straightedge was useful. And it easily converted to a 2' for setting the bases & counter tops front to back.
*I'm with you on the readin' glasses Jon. I'm holding out until the teenagers all leave the nest for the hearing aid though. Did I catch a refrence to "the woodburning NW" in another post? - yb
*Young Bob,Yup you did. Willamette Valley boy here. If you're driving to San Francisco maybe we can hok up for a cup of coffee on I-5.JonC
*JonC - not sure how far down you are. Intend to head out from Olympia area midafternoon, approx 2 hours to Portland and continue south this evening.Would love to meet, but how to coordinate? I'll check back here before I leave. - ybps - do you have Starbucks down there in the southland?
*JonC - gotta go man, gettin' antsy, maybe next time (maybe we can vanpool to the slapfest in the fall!) thanks anyway. -yb
*Mainly use a 2' and 6'6" for doors, and a 30" for all else, or my torpedo level. Switched to Stabila lately and I find I love them.Dennis
*Had to work late, sorry I missed you. E-mail me, if you cant catch me on the way back, I'll be up there to see one of my kids this summer. Maybe we can have a cup then.JonC
*John C. I am very process oriented, it flows through my veins. I can't help myself.I am good for 5 hours sprints. In my earliest days, I could go seven, hand pounding, and stay up late!I'm pacing myself to get in 8 now.Blue
*I have avery nice magnesium 8' that I paid 156$ in 1988, gathering dust in the barn. My torpedo is doing just fine on the 17' walls these days. Of course, we square and sheet them accuratley before we stand them!Blue
*Update on the 4' level thing. I noticed the rookie toss the 4' level about 6' away today, while clearing a spot to work. ten years ago I would have gone ballistic. Today I just chuckled, cause he must of seen me throwing my tools up onto the deck, including that level. I hope he doesn't start chucking tools from the roof...oh hell, who cares! If they aren't tough enough to take it, I'll find some that are!Blue
*Ive only rarely used a bob, but I like the sound of the 32oz'er. I rely on parallel measurements. I expect the foundation to be level, so therefore the top plates are level. All things must be paralell to the top plate for me to consider it level.since we accuratley square our walls and sheet them prior to raising them, they are presumed to be plumb. All parallel measurements are presumed to be plumb.When the rockers toss their square boars against our frame, it fits! Even if the house is slightly unlevel, and therefore unplumb!Blue
*Stabilia?Blue
*Blue, the much maligned 4 foot Mahogany Mason Level from Johnson Tool has done well, though I have a 2 foot aluminum box (Stabila), the better combination square bubble and a magnetic torpedo as well. The Levelution looks near enought to tool porn, and Joe got the last cheap combination square before I could grab it. Partial to brass plumb bobs, antique shops and flea markets are a good source for old and odd styles.
*Your theory is bang on Blue.Here we do our own foundations. No concrete block here on the coast, all concrete. I take my time with the foundation and make sure it is level to within an 1/8 of an inch up or down from the benchmark. This way when the deck is down and I start framing and sheathing walls on the deck I just stand them up join em' at the corners, string line em' straight and everything should be plumb. I use the level just to double check before we start the next floor or roof.
*How much you want for that 8' plumb stick of yours Blue.Will the price include shipping to south coastal B.C.Canadian Loonies at par eh!
*Fine German or Austrian craftsmanship, Blue. Think BMW, Porsche, Mercedes...
*While we're on the level thing, how many of you still have levels out there that only read plumb one way? A few years ago had a guy who tool cheap. Had a old 4'johnson that was shot, I thought that he had stolen from a plumber it was so bad. One day while plumbing up some columns he handed me his level to check his work. After tring to spin this this thing to line up the level I calmly walked over to a post and did my best Babe Ruth with the level. The look on his face was priceless.A hour later I had replaced his level and the next day he came to work with a new tool box and some new tools
*If the wind aint blowin I love my plumb bob. Its always right. No questions asked. Trouble is the wind starts blowing every time I pull it out. My 4' Mahogany masons level is very accurate if you put it on the right side LOL ive checked it over and over with the plumb bob. If you turn the wrong side down though ...look out......sorta like my wife i reckon you just got to know how to read her...
*No Brian not another level with all thoose arrows on it. And the batter steps up to the plate.........
*Sounds like George and I are on the same wave length. . . 4' Mahogany and 2' aluminum, with a torpedo and plumb bob lurking in the box, and one of those nifty two sided Johnston post setters back home for deck jobs. Plumb with the help of a variety of plywood straight edges, 8', 6'8" for door jambs, and an appropriate straight stud for longer.On the topic of adjustable vials. . .if they can be adjusted they can also slide out of wack at very inopportune times (like anytime). . . had an extruded aluminum 4'with adjustables that did me wrong, seemed to go out of wack when left sitting out in the hot sun (expansion/contraction??). . . took awhile to believe it, though I've always had justifiable trust in my i eye,finally gave up on it mid job after having to i boogera bunch of stuff to compensate. My helper christened it "rebar" and ever after we only used it as a straight edge for marking and cutting poly, tarpaper, d/wall etc.
*A framer recommended checking the level every day by scribing a "level" line, flipping, and scribing again. If the lines don't match... Same for plumb.
*Levelution,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*Atta Boy Bill!
*Bill you ruined a good level!All you have to do to "fix" a level is hold it up to a plumb surface and remark the vials!Blue
*Stuff that one between the wall board!Blue
*Woodchip, we take care to only use decent top plates.We do not use strings. An eye sighted plate is usually straighter than a "stringed" plate.Our foundations are usually right on. they use lasers now, and the accuracy is much improved.If, we start with a straight, parallel, square wall, it will remain that way, after standing. I can guarantee that it will be plumb, within 1/16th inch, and will bet my best milkbones on that!If we sheet the wall, and it is wavy, it will stay that way, unless we are using foam. If foamed, we can beat it down with a sledge. Usually, the rookies only do that once!Blue
*I ain't offering it for loonies! I left a lower quality 8 footer behind at my brothers house. I just can't remember why I needed them bad enough to buy them!When I start with a new builder, I bring it out every day, and lean it on the wall near the front door. They actually think I use it!Blue
*And if you're of a certain age, everytime you use them you hear that Beatle's song: "you say you want a Levelution...."
*BleuI guess that's why ya need that big ass ram. . . to drive it around in???
*Joe,What happened to"I use that little bubble level on my cheep adjustable square, it's the only one I own"??:-)Rich Beckman
*No line scribing necessary. Hold the level on any vertical object, turn level 180 so you're looking at the other face, if the vial reads the same the level is good. Works same for horizontal surfaces just flip end for end.All my levels have adjustable acrylic vials (read indestructable and expensive). I got tired of replacing vials and chuckin' NFG levels.
*That reminds me. I used to be a commercial working stuperintendant, doing tenant renovations. We used metal studs and vinyl drywall.My tprpedo level broke. The bubble was still intact. I pushed it against a stud, and found that it would still work for plumb! The same thing worked for level.Guess who never bought a torpedo again, while doing that type work?The lines finally wore off. Bummer!When are they going to start etching the lines on the vials?Blue
*I just thought of something else. My rookie had a craftsman torpedo. It was a goofy one. The calibration wasn't in the middle, and there were numbers on it. It seems that if the thing was out of plumb 1/8", it would be at the first increment. It was the goofiest thing I ever saw, almost!He took it back.you gotta wonder why any one would manufacture something like that!Blue
*b OH NO NOT ON MY JOB YOU DON"TI've seen to many times where a level was "fixed" and next day we had to redo the thing again.
*Rich,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*You got me there, Joe. I never saw it coming.Rich Beckman
*I always thought those were plumbers marks - 1/8 " out of level in 6" would be 1/4" "fall" per foot of drain pipe (which I've always heard is the optimum "fall"). Next mark - more "fall"and I also suspect this is a hook you threw out to see who would bite. I guess this is as good a way as any to say "hi" again though, missed you guys - even you friggin' Canadians. (girls too)and they can keep that city - yb
*Welcome back Young Bob. Sorry we didnt manage to get together this time. It really wasnt any wierder than Seattle was it?JonC
*Hey your right YB! Plumbers probably would like that feature!I learned something from this forum!Blue
*hey JonC - same here.Never liked Seattle either. I have traveled to virtually every major city (and plenty of smaller ones too) in this great land and haven't been to one yet that I wasn't itchin' to leave soon after arrival. I grew up in a very small town and I guess I got "imprinted" or something. Sure is great to go through town waving to every third or fourth vehicle I meet. - sure great to be home - yb
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I have a 4' and 6' and a 2' digital I can recalibrate in 20 seconds if needed and piggyback on the others when I need a nice long line.
*The level I want, have and use is a level plus a helper who sings out when I'm level or plumb, so I don't have to divert my eyes from the nail I'm hammering or wood I'm positioning.And I don't have any helper. I use that device carpenters sneer at, the audible level. It beeps, and I whack. It's a big improvement on the neck-twisting bubble. Only one caveat, you have to keep testing mine to make sure it doesn't wander off its accuracy. It's only accurate to about 1 degree anyway, but that's a lot better than those doors which lean so much they close themselves.-- YankeeDam
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Yd
Ya wanna make sure yer helper understands the terminology. . . ya wouldn't wanna end up
i Better 'N Plumb. . . there's a story, check the archives.
-pm ;}
*Plumb bobs for plumbing walls. Levels for cabinets and doors and such. Don't know if this was said before but There is a retractable plumbbob out there ,I forgot the name and it's on the job right now. I got it at Woodworkers Supply. Great tool. And as for levels Stabila is hard to beat. Richard Max
*Port Hang that plumb bob on a chalk box.Scott
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I noticed a debate starting in another post about plumb bob's and levels.
I used to use a 6'-6" level, bought and used a 8' level, and then when the house started including two story great rooms, diligently searched for 17' levels, to no avail.
I then found that my torpedo level was just as accuarate as my 8' level.
My 8' level is now gathering dust.
What do you use?
*like most guys, I have a variety - torpedo, 24", 72", plumb bob, water level...while I think there are pros and cons to each, there is a pocket in my shoulder box for my 24" so I tend to use it more than the others since it is easiest to grab. - yb
*Young Bob, that's a size that I don't have! What's a shoulder box?Blue
*I guess I'd have to call it an "old fashioned" carpenters tool box. Approx. 8" wide, 30" long, 6" deep with a handle on top the length of it to carry it by. Oh yeh...with just enough hand tools in it that by reaching down and picking it up 313 times a day, as you move about the job, you keep the local chiropractor in business. Much easier to lift it up onto shoulder and carry it that way. Ain't it amazing how tough it can be to describe something with words?How's that new rig ride? Did you get leather? -yb
*I think I know what a shoulder box is now.I've seen them.I didn't get the leather. I don't like it, and prefer cloth.It's a great tool, but one problem I already see coming. Where do you put the tools? It's way to nice to be cluttering up the cab, or the back with tools!I decided to stuff a saw, bags, sawzall, and air tools into a 28" X 20" x 18" plastic box, behind the passenger seat.I'm thinking of buying a beater to work in... Blue
*no way, after a day of toil, nothing beats a nice drive home with the radio on and your arm out the window. hey, did you get good "tunes" equipment?
*What about an 18"? Sometimes called a cabinetmakers level, the idea being you set it on the countertop to set the uppers. Don't have one, but they are out there.
*I have been using the plumb-it level it is ajustable up to aprox 16', you just have to be careful not to bow it in the middle when plumbing up.
*AW - please clarify, can't visualize it. BTW - that seems like a pretty non combative group over there. I'm a little disappointed. They're either real subtle or I'm real insensitive. - yb
*YB, I don't know if half of them are kidding, or they just have no sense of humour at all. there is a pretty high percentage of hobbyists over there, they like to keep it sort of quiet so they can talk about scrollsaws and stuff. And then there are the other guys, who can be interesting.The cabinetmakers level is just a plain old level, 18" long. You are supposed to have two of them, you prop them up against the wall, on the counter, and sit the upper on them and screw it home, the levels giving you the correct spacing. I prefer shopmade props and shim to a level line, so I have never invested in one for this purpose, though who knows, maybe an eighteen incher would come in handy somewhere?
*Hey, remember the original post? I use my 48" level just about all the time. I'll use it for 9' walls even. Just takes a wee bit more time. I rarely ever bother to grab the 8' level. I cut a 24" down to exactly 18". This allows me to plumb the splash for tile beneath the uppers in one shot. Also, knowing the length of the level, I can accurately measure for cuts.
*got it, thanks. Do you know where Cape Vincent, NY is? other end of seaway from you? or?...how far? - yb
*Adrian, most set their uppers first. I like to do it your way. The 18" level is intriguing. I use my cute little work bench, which just happens to be 17.75" or so. Blue
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Joseph FuscoView Image
*Joe! If your framing big stuff without a big level, you're automatically entered into the boogerin' club!Welcome!
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Joseph FuscoView Image
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Joseph FuscoView Image
*about 15 years ago I built a set of 16" tall sawhorses for my son. have been using them along with blocks/shims ever since to set wall cabinets with. Little guy never did like to get dirty - now he's the valadictorian in a class of 260. Must be recessive genetics. - yb
*I'm like Joe. I use exactly one, foundation contractor. I use him specifically so I dont have to worry about leveling the sills. Beyond that. I use a Levelution 4' 2' combination, and a cheap 18" and 4' construction level for quick and dirty. Mostly, I use a plumb-bob and that greek math for square level and plumb. I used to do alot of shops and ag-buildings (pole). I used a water level alot for them.Blue,You seem very process oriented to me. Would you mind if I asked you to walk through framing my next little one story house solo with me? I work slow in 3 to 5 hour bursts. Could be kinda fun for both of us.JonCB
*Did I mention how long I can sit happily cross legged on the deck untangling my plumb-bob line and taking in the Wa of the place?Slow JonC
*If you're not plumbing your walls plate to plate, chances are your walls aren't plumb. If the stud that you choose to slap your level against is crowned, you're getting a false reading. A plumb bob always tells you how far out of plumb you are, therefore how far you need to rack it. With a level you can only say "a little more" or "good enough". It really doesn't take that much time to get 'em right (compared to compensating for the error when it's time to frame the roof).JonC -- Wrap the line tightly around the top of the bob and use an engineer's knot to hold it. Or use a fly fishing reel. Or a spent chaulk line.I'd bust out laughing if someone plumbed a wall with a two foot level.If you've got 8' walls, an 8' level goes plate to plate. Stay away from the studs -- they're never straight. If all else fails, Booger up!Dan.
*I have 2', 4' and 6' levels. The 2' and 4' get used mostly for installing windows, newel and deck posts. The 6' for doors and plumbing walls, I always pick straight studs for wall corners, plumb the corners with the 6 footer and string line the wall from corner to corner adjusting with turnbuckles like they use in commercial tilt up construction. I occasionally use a plumb bob when framing high walls but find them difficult to use outdoors as it is almost always windy here on the coast.I am considering getting an 8 footer but most of the houses I've been framing lately have at least one 9' floor.I am also concerned about keeping a level that long straight.
*Dan, You dont seem to understand.I'll never be wrapped tight and tied off properly.Stayed at the institusion for 15 yrs. after that little rat Andrew ran off to law school.JonC
*YB, I'm nowhere near the seaway. Located in Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, five minutes away the atlantic, geographically as far east as you can go in North America (if you don't count Newfoundland). On a hill, overlooking a river.
*I don't know why, it just goes against my instinct to do the uppers first. I didn't know there was an 8' level; I can't even find a six footer around here. If I need something longer, I use my 4' and a straight edge of whatever length I need. I have an advantage in that I can joint one edge, and get a really good rip on my cabinet saw.
*My almost 3-y.o. begs to let him "work" with me. Hope that lasts. :) He has played with most of my non-lethal tools and -loves- the "bubbles" in the level (and listening to daddy chant "PLEASE don't drop that").
*Engineer's knot?
*Rat? My ears were burning...The levels are just straightedges (or lasers) attached to bubble vials. Carry around a set of them or use something long and straight (a straight stud? no offcolor jokes please :) ) with your torpedo.I like plumb bobs, except in the wind... I took some time to recalibrate my levels recently and was able to get them very accurate (no, these ain't Stabila).
*I had a 4' (mason's type with a slight camber), needed a 2' and was torn between 6' and 8'. And just then the Levelution jumped off the shelf at me. A 4' and two 2' that couple to make 2', 4', 6' or 8'. And they threw in the t-square attachment and carrying case. How could a tool junkie resist?Seriously, the cost was not much above the combined cost of a good grade 4' and 6' and a saving if you added in a separate 8'. I just noticed they've added a 'door hanger' line in 'doorish' lengths and at a lower price point.
*Met an old guy at the coast last year that had a 10 lb. plumb bob for windy conditions. I didnt realize you could get them that big.JonC
*Make a small loop at the top of the bob and bring the string to the bottom (of whatever part of the bob that you're winding around -- mine has about a 3/4" neck at the top), make another small loop at the bottom, wind string over string between loops. Tightly, but not ultra-tight.At the end of the string slide a little loop into the bottom loop. Pull the top loop tight. This will tighten the bottom loop around the end of the string and pull it under the pile somewhat. To untie it, just pull on the end of the string. The last loop comes out of the bottom one, unravels and you're ready to start plumbing.I think it's also called a miner's knot.Dan
*I've noticed those a couple of times and HAD to resist as my pockets were a bit thin. You seem to like 'em, how long have you had them?I was curious as to how long the joints would stay tight. How are those locking mechanisms, do they seem like they can stand some abuse?Dan
*Wow!! I'm Gettin' one!
*b levelsBlue I have just about evey size and shape they make. From a set of thoose high priced yellow ones to a huge 16 ft home made one. Mostly I carry a 2 ft and a 4 ft in a case. Ever now and then i break out the the 6 ft if we're setting metal knock downs. I carry three plumb bob's a 2oz,16oz and a 320z monster. In the world of hyper speed frameing do you still use plumb bob's or is it the local walmart plastic level :)