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40 years between paint jobs

| Posted in General Discussion on August 1, 2001 07:55am

*
I have recently purchased an old farmhouse. The house exterior is cedar clapboard that has not been painted in almost 40 years. I have no problem hand scrapping what little paint is left. My question is what to do on the nail holes and paint options (latex vs. oil, vs. stain). The siding was nailed with handcut nails and the holes were puttied over, at least for the last paint job. In some places there is not enough siding to create a hole for filling with putty. I can’t re-set the nails (too brittle and the studs are oak and chestnut) and in general I would rather not putty all those little holes. Suggestions on puttying or not, latex vs. oil, vs. stain will be welcomed. Re-siding the entire house is not in the budget.

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  1. piffin_ | Aug 01, 2001 05:03am | #1

    *
    Definitely putty but I'm confused about the 'no room for putty' statement. Minwax wood filler is a for wood bondo type filler product that might do you good. If the existing wood is too poor they have a wood hardener that consolidates the wood fibers first. I'm sure other manufactures have similar epoxy type products on the market.

    You probably need to do much more than just scrape though. Any place that the wood fibres have been exposed to weather and UV rays of the sun, the chemistry of the cells has changed, weakening the wood. You need to sand to fresh wood cells before applying primer. generally any wood exposed for about a month has suffered some degree of weather damage. The bond of the new paint depends on the integrity of the wood it adheres to.
    The wood hardener or consolidants enter the wood cells and rebuild them chemicaly. It is expensive though. By the time you are done you may wish that you had replaced the siding.
    If this is a budget job, just get vinyl siding (ugh!)

    1. The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Aug 01, 2001 05:48am | #2

      *Penetral is not very expensive and will help with weathered wood...I have used my share on older sills.near the stream,ajPaint it and you'll be fine. Penetral...primer...finish coats.

      1. SHGLaw | Aug 01, 2001 12:46pm | #3

        *AJ is right. Penetrol can make a big difference, like paint adhereing a year later or not, even if you use a good oil primer.Give it a week to soak in before priming. Fill after priming, but don't use minwax which is fine for interior but not exterior. Try bondo, which is a pain to use because it sets up so quickly but has a much better chance of lasting.SHG

        1. Barry_E | Aug 01, 2001 01:42pm | #4

          *The penetrol is a good idea. Oil primer and 2 coats 100% acrylic paint. If you want to spring for a little extra, you might try SW's Duration. I haven't used it yet, but I've been told that it bridges gaps better than the acrylics. And the guarantee is better for homeoners.Minwax and Bondo are the same thing. You just pay more for the Minwax per ounce. And the hardner is a different color.

          1. Bill_Flather | Aug 01, 2001 02:45pm | #5

            *I expect what you mean by not enough siding left to putty over is that the wood has eroded enough over the last century to reveal the nail heads and leave no divot to receive filler. I expect it will be difficult to get a rust inhibiting primer to penetrate deep enough to prevent rust stains, but I am not sure how else to approach it.

          2. Andy_Engel_ | Aug 01, 2001 06:55pm | #6

            *I'm prepping my two-year old house for paint this summer, and I've been sanding everthing with 60 grit in a random-orbit sander. I'm amazed at how UV has deteriorated both exposed primer and bare wood in that short a time. Neither deteriorated wood or primer hold paint. Bondo the nail holes and spend the time sanding. Seal up any vulnerable endgrain with epoxy diluted with alcohol. You don't want to skimp on paint prep. Oil primer, two-coats 100% acrylic top coat. Don't know about the Penetrol.Andy

          3. Shawn_Twing | Aug 01, 2001 07:34pm | #7

            *Jim-to remove the weathered wood (to create a better place for paint to stick), you might want to try a Makita paint remover instead of a random orbit sander. You can find info about it here: http://www.finepaints.com/html/products/makita_remover.htmlStrange coincidence, but I've been using this tool for the past few hours and just came inside to take a break. I started with a random orbit sander, but wasn't making much progress. The Makita works great if you don't overdo it. I'm down to 'new' wood for primer to adhere to, and it took about 10% of the time.I'd also recommend you check out the Fine Paints of Europe website (www.finepaints.com). They import Schreuder Dutch paint, and it's amazing stuff. Much higher quality than even the 'quality' stuff we get around here. (I need to note they're also one of my clients, but I believe in their products.) When we built their website we talked to a lot of their customers -- including high-end restoration companies, etc., and they all insist that Schreuder paint lasts the longest on restoration work (and new work).There's a lot of info on the FPE website -- maybe it can help with your paint project.s.

          4. JohnD_ | Aug 01, 2001 07:40pm | #8

            *In our restoration of wooden cars, we have had that problem for years. Some of the cars have set out for 40 years and more, and the paint is in the condition you would expect. For obvious reasons, extensive sanding is not desired or even possible.I have read comments about the effect of aging of wood and paint adhesion, and there is a distinct problem with the surface of the wood after time, even before any serious aging is visible. The guys in Knots have talked about that.Another problem with painting old, porous surfaces, is that the vehicle (the resin that actually hardens) soaks into the wood. Unfortunately, the pigment is typically too coarse to follow along, so a layer of resin-poor pigment sits on the surface. This can even occur with most primers. This film has no durability, so after a few years the "top coat" will fail; really what has happened is that the primer coat has failed, and the top coat has fallen off.We have had really good luck using RustOleum Damp Proof Red Primer, especially the old original fish oil formula. The red pigment seems to be really finely ground, so it soaks in with the primer. And, the primer seems more flexible than most, so it gives with that old wood.Penetrol and the like are similar. They are nothing more than unpigmented paints and soak into the wood, preventing the primer from developing a weak film. They also tend to have flexible films, so they do not develop cracking. You can also use diluted varnishes to accomplish similar effects, as well as sealers like tung oil.

          5. jim_l | Aug 01, 2001 07:55pm | #9

            *Barry's suggestion of SW's Duration may be well worth a try. I haven't used it old clapboard, but I have used it on horse fencing, 3 yrs now, and it shows no deteriortation at all, including on the wide late grain on PT posts. I'd do the penetrol, primer thing, then try some Duration as a test. It's expensive and doesn't go as far because it is very thick, but it covers extremely well. They refer to it as a house coating, rather than paint. If you work with it you'll understand why.jim l

  2. Jim_Hampton | Aug 01, 2001 07:55pm | #10

    *
    I have recently purchased an old farmhouse. The house exterior is cedar clapboard that has not been painted in almost 40 years. I have no problem hand scrapping what little paint is left. My question is what to do on the nail holes and paint options (latex vs. oil, vs. stain). The siding was nailed with handcut nails and the holes were puttied over, at least for the last paint job. In some places there is not enough siding to create a hole for filling with putty. I can't re-set the nails (too brittle and the studs are oak and chestnut) and in general I would rather not putty all those little holes. Suggestions on puttying or not, latex vs. oil, vs. stain will be welcomed. Re-siding the entire house is not in the budget.

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