All,
I’ve got 4 sets of 48″ wide french doors in my house that I need to replace, but if anyone has ever tried to get in and out of a 2 foot wide door (only one side of each french door is easily opened) then you can understand why I don’t want to waste good money on the same thing I have now. I am hoping that someone has a good idea for replacing these doors with something that is easier to get in and out of. Here’s the facts: Two sets of the doors are from my living room to my (covered) deck and the other two are in my finished basement going to the (covered) patio, so they’re all exterior doors. Making the opening bigger is not an option, so I’m stuck with 48″ unless I want to make the RO smaller. I’d rather not do that, so what would be a good option? The only thing I’ve found so far is a 36″ door with a 12″ built in venting sidelight. Hell, maybe that’s my only option, I don’t know…….
Frank
Replies
French doors - but with one side being 12" and the other 36".
So what's the big deal about turning your shoulders to one side when you go through the 24" french door? There's a 24" door on a bathroom I use several times a day and I'm not a narrow shouldered, or narrow waisted guy. I've just adapted to that opening, never even think about it.
We make paired doors at 24" wide and set them up with multipoint latches so both doors can be opened by levers. Granted, these are not French doors - they are made in Indiana, but are every bit as good or better than the French product.
The levers allow easy opening and closing, but do require two hands to open, and two to close. Another alternative, as suggested , is to have a 12" and a 36" set up as a pair, with or without multi-point latching. This is a good fix and makes the doors much more usable than the 24"
Sounds like your builder had a strange sense of humor.
Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
How about shrinking the RO's each by a foot, putting in 3'-0" hinged doors, and do some creative wide trim? Fake shutters?
Will that deck accomodate a 36" wide door? How about the patio? The 24" doors may have been used for a good reason.
If the 36 fits, I like either a side light or the 12"/36" option.
How about a 32-inch door with narrow sidelights on both sides? Or paired French doors that both open easily (you say only one opens now?).
I'm currently designing a set of French doors (between a hallway and parlor) for a total opening width of only 34 inches; both doors will remain open unless there is a need to close off the room.
Allen
Thanks for the ideas everyone. Answers to your questions:
Yes, the deck and patio will accept 36" doors, no problem if I decide to do that.
I can fit through the 24" wide doors, but it just feels awkward, and gets difficult carrying food when I'm outside grilling. I could live with replacing the doors as they are, but I just would rather not do it that way. However, if they make french doors where both sides open the same, then I might consider that. And the idea of a 32" inch door with narrow sidelights on each side sounds great, I am going to investigate it.
Yes, the builder had a twisted sense of humor. Actually, these houses have an interesting history. We are right outside of Alexandria, VA, and the street we live on was not developed when the surrounding area was built out due to the "problem soil", which is marine clay. Then, in the mid 80's, for whatever reason (I guess because land got so expensive), they built 18 houses on a cul-de-sac here. I think two builders went bankrupt during construction, one of my neighbors actually had to buy his house three different times. Anyway, the houses were "modular", a concrete basement was built for each house and then the pre-finished boxes where placed on top of the basement and tied together. They look great, but they are VERY small, and everything was made with the cheapest materials, practically no closets, etc. Anyway, we have all been keeping lots of contractors busy for the last 20 something years, and the french doors are just one of the many interesting quirks we find all the time, for instance: polybutylene plumbing which all had to be replaced, all the electrical wiring is super thick (12?) and very hard to work with, each floor has two sets of joists, on the floor and in the ceiling, so the houses are really high, the two by fours in the interior walls are turned sideways and then covered with a sheet of plywood with an open-air gap between them, and it goes on and on.
OK, you're saying that the stationary door on each unit has a type of latching hardware which makes it difficult to open. The hardware is made that way for security, no doubt, but the latching system can be changed to make it much easier to open.
As I understand it, the real problem occurs when you occasionally carrying food out to the grill, so it's really just one unit that needs to be altered.
I'd consult a locksmith about types of externally mounted, interior-side hardware which can be fitted to your current door or a new french door. There are some very handsome brassworks that would be suitable.
As some one who has installed thousands of doors, might I suggest using two two footers hinged to each other at the center of the opening with your choice of which side of the jamb will serve as the hinged sideThis setup is similar to half of a bi-fold closet set of doorsWhen the two doors are closed, the hinge barrels will show on the side attached to the jamb, the hinge barrel is reversed and the barrel is visible on the opposite side. This allows you to 'fold' open the pair of doors in unison. Flush bolts or magnetic catches can hold the pair in the closed position while the lockset is engaged on the non hinged lock stile. Steinmetz.
I've done doors like that, but only on interiors.
The OP's doors are exterior. Do you have a good way to weatherstrip and secure doors with those setups?
Shep I am formally from Bergen County NJ. As I mentioned in my post, I would install two lever flush bolts ($$$$)One at top, and one at bottom of the inside face of the door attached and swinging out from the hinges on the jamb. They are a little difficult to mortise into a wood door, if you've never done it. Unlike slide bolts, they can't be jiggled open like plain slide bolts
Two easier solutions are, A: Two surface mounted slide bolts (less expensive)
Or, B: Two Sliding flush bolts (Cheap) They are mounted on the stile adjacent to the middle fold of the non-locking door. Since they are exterior doors,you might want the locked door to be hinged, so that it too will swing out AND fold.
(Both sets of hinge barrels face outward)
For total security, use Tight Pin (Non removable pin hinges)
Use three hinges on each door. The lockset can be a Cylndrical (Key in knob)(cheap) or, Mortise cylinder lock.(cylinder above the knob) ($$$)Weatherstrip can be applied to top and sides of inside jamb
and two vertical strips kissing each other up and down the inside juncture of the doors As far as the bottoms of the doors are concerned,you can choose from bottom sweep seals (Outside)(cheap)
or, automatic drop seals (Inside)($$$Google up Zero Weatherstripping Co.
to compare what's available My favorite, is the weather strips which have continuous horse hair brush along their length. Steinmetz.
Edited 11/12/2007 11:12 pm ET by Steinmetz
Thanks for the reply.
I'm not sure if I'll ever do exterior doors like that, but now I have a pretty good idea how.
I missed the part about the lever bolts in your post. I have done the lever flush bolts, and they are a bit of a PITA. But they look and work so nice when installed.
We like our 48" doors, scale is correct, very nice access. Allows for a standard sliding door lite in the middle. Exterior doors here minimum 48", interior 36". Strikes us as only reasonable.
No good reason to suffer with skinny doors. But I also like #12 wiring. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Regular door and sidelite probably will suit you best (if maybe with swapping the hinging from out to in).
It's even possible to get the sidelite hinged, if that's really needful.
But, you will have several options that "add up" to four feet. 3-0 door and 1-0 sidelite down to 2-6 door and 1-6 sidelite.
One advantage you will gain with a "standard" size door plus side light is that you will have many more options for a screen door that you don't presently (my memories of Alexandria are more than soem hazy, but do remember some alaska-size refugee bugs that seemed thrive there).
I think it looks better to have the side lights on both sides and equal. A lopsided opening can work but isn't as acceptable to me as a balanced one.
Will the swing work if you make it a single door? Our front door is 48" wide and I like it.
Use a "Cremone" bolt (surface/knob/two-point) and open both at once, like so?
View Image
Forrest
Edited 11/15/2007 7:18 am by McDesign