Replies

1. 
   Scooter1 | Feb 13, 2004 03:24am | #1

   This may sound like a "duh", but 3/4 flooring will last a life time; 5/16 will survive maybe one re-finishing. So how long you going to live in your home is the question?

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

2. 
   dIrishInMe | Feb 13, 2004 03:31am | #2

   This may sound like a "duh"too, but isn't 5/16 always an "engineered" product and generally prefinished?  In other words, aren't we talking plywood vs a solid 3/4" product?
    

   Matt
1. 
   JohnSprung | Feb 13, 2004 03:42am | #3

   I have solid 5/16" t&g oak in my place, built in 1926.  If you're careful, you can probably get 2 or 3 refinishings out of it.  Trouble is that over the last 78 years or so, others may not have been so careful.

   -- J.S.

2. 
   BillHartmann | Feb 13, 2004 03:45am | #4

   No it is not always engineered.

   Here is Bruce Reflections which 5/16 solid.

   http://www.armstrong.com/resbrucewoodna/line_detail.jsp?prod_line_id=191

   I think that is used for direct glue down to concrete, but can be stappled.

   I think that first question is what is the application for this floor.

3. 
   caseyr | Feb 13, 2004 03:46am | #5

   My 1957 vintage California ranch had 3" wide by 3/8" solid oak flooring.  The local lumber yard had 5/16" x 3" a couple of years ago when I had to replace a couple of pieces.  It looks nice, but as said in previous post, you have to be really careful when refinishing to get more than one refinishing out of the stuff.  It is not tongue and grooved so you cannot hide the nails in the tongue.  The replacement stuff I got was not cheap, (I don't remember the exact price) I wouldn't be surprised that if by shopping around you could get about the same price on the thicker stuff. 

   Edited 2/12/2004 7:47:23 PM ET by CaseyR

4. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 13, 2004 06:01am | #6

   5/16th isn't always engineered ...

   and engineered isn't plywood.

   any more guesses?

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

1. 
   Sphere | Feb 13, 2004 04:41pm | #10

   and isn't 5/16 really 8mm?..<g>..

   View Image

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

3. 
   WorkshopJon | Feb 13, 2004 06:45am | #7

   "Would anyone have any thoughts on the comparison/pros and cons of 5/16" and 3/4" hardwood flooring?"

   JM,

   I laid down (stapled) about 900 sq ft of that Bruce pre-finished "Natural Reflections" hardwood flooring in my place about ~4 years ago.  I would not recommend it as a substitute for real 3/4" t&g.  I'm not saying not to use it, just that it does not look like site finished 3/4" t&g.

   Disimilarities include minor mismatches in height between some planks (~.003"-.010") a bowed-like appearance which is exaggerated by the fact it is finished in a high gloss, and it doesn't have a very flat level surface.

   I paid $3.95 sq ft and installed it myself, so from a price perspective, it's not bad if you are a DIY.  Plus , no dust and smell from finishing.  But if you do go for it, get plenty of staples. I think you need to put one every 4". Oh, and you need a PERFECT (3/4" plywood) subfloor and a special staple gun.

   Jon

4. 
   davidmeiland | Feb 13, 2004 09:52am | #8

   When I lived in Michigan it seemed like every house in the state was done with 3/4" tongue and groove red oak flooring. California's the opposite--most houses with hardwood have 5/16" x 2-1/4" oak flooring. There are major differences.

   The 5/16" material is face-nailed to the subfloor. The installers use a pair of nails every 8-12" or so, and then they fill the holes with putty and sand it before finishing. You can see every one of those holes no matter how well they do it. I used one flooring sub that had an old automatic face nailer. It was a riot to watch--nails go in a big hopper and then descend a track, heads up points down, to a spot where a hammer hits a plunger that drives them. Literally, a hammer attached to a pivot with a belt-driven flywheel spinning that drives the hammer up and down, fast. The operator chalks lines on the floor and then follows them with the machine. If he's good he gets two nails per board, near each edge. If he's not, he gets more or less, or poor spacing. They had an old-timer, Al, who ran the nailer. He had a low stool with casters to ride on while he nailed. I never remembered to bring my camcorder.

   3/4" flooring is blind-nailed, with the nails in the tongue. You have to face-nail the last few pieces near the wall where the nailer will no longer fit, but other than that you don't see any nails and to me the grain of the wood stands out a lot more and it's a lot easier on the eye. You can rent or buy a pneumatic nailer that simultaneously slams the board against it's neighbor for a tight joint and drives the nail. If you have good material you can get joints that are perfectly tight over most of the floor, so no putty is needed to fill gaps.

   There's a little more material in 3/4" flooring to sand, but sooner or later you get down to the tongue. The lifetime of an oak floor can be 80 years if you take decent care of it.

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Feb 14, 2004 01:48am | #12

   "The 5/16" material is face-nailed to the subfloor."

   Dave,

   The 5/16" Bruce product is either blind stapled or glued down.  To a  novice, it does look like blind nailed 3/4 t&g.  To someone in the know....no way.

   Jon

1. 
   davidmeiland | Feb 14, 2004 05:02am | #13

   Honestly, you couldn't give me any of the composite flooring products. I think they're the epitome of cheap, short-lived materials. If a client wanted it... OK, I guess so, with much protest, but in my house, never.

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Feb 14, 2004 05:15am | #14

   "Honestly, you couldn't give me any of the composite flooring products. I think they're the epitome of cheap, short-lived materials."

   David,

   I agree with you, but that's not what we are talking about here. Depending on the care of the refinishing, the 5/16" solid could go through 2 or 3, and would probably look just like true 3/4" t&g after the first refinish. It has close to 5/64" of mtrl. above the tongue.  I wouldn't use the quick aggressive techniques that are typically used on 3/4" on it, but... there are other ways vs. the big drum sanders.

   Jon

2. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 14, 2004 06:39am | #15

   the 5/16th bruce isn't a composite ...

   it's real wood ... solid.

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

   
1. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 14, 2004 06:40am | #16

   still don't think ya could live with it?

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

2. 
   WorkshopJon | Feb 14, 2004 07:05am | #17

   Jeff,

   Did you install that? That looks darn good!

   Jon

3. 
   davidmeiland | Feb 14, 2004 08:22am | #18

   Sorry, Jeff, didn't realize that's what it was. I've only seen one or two jobs with prefinished flooring. They put some in my mother's house and it didn't hold up well. On another job I saw guys putting in some composite material, basically plywood--a very thin veneer of prefinished oak over a t&g core, maybe a total of 1/2" thick or so. I didn't even want to go in the room for fear of accidentally dropping a tool on the stuff. For some reason they had installed it before I set the cabs. Anyway, you couldn't even sand that stuff once, whatever it was. There are frequent TV ads for easy to DIY flooring that snaps together... stuff like that. I have no faith in it. Seems like the Ikea of building materials to me.

   I guess I'd go for prefinished in some situations... although it seems like you'd have to avoid ANY face nailing at all. With traditional 3/4 t&g you do a bit of face nailing around the final edge but you can fill those holes before finishing and they blend in very well. I'm basically just a traditional wood guy in almost all cases.

4. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 15, 2004 02:15am | #21

   Here's a pic of some more Bruce prefinish ...

   this time full 3/4 .... had to match the existing ... some areas had to be face nailed .. as usual. Align the long tip of the gun with the grain ... pick a darker spot ... practically disappears.

   Bruce makes great nail hole filler ...

   any place that sells Bruce will have it in their flooring dept ...

   HD is one placeI know I can go in and grab what color I need ...

   Just decided the other day ... after the kitchen designer "forgot" to order me a patch and stain kit for the install .... and after using my Bruce floor fill for a coupla face nailed cab pieces ... that I'm gonna go get every color they make and keep in my trip kits ....

   I'm gonna start to use the floor fill for all my stain grade trim ...

   Stuff comes in a squeeze tube ... flows out easily ... thick enough to not settle and such itself back into the hole .... sticks to anything ... and hides itself great on prefinished hardwood materials.

   If it only came in white!

   Jeff

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

   
5. 
   DougU | Feb 14, 2004 09:07pm | #19

   Jeff

   Whats that wood in the pics, and what is the boarder, I assume you buy it(the boarder) that way?

   Nice work by the way.

   Doug

6. 
   edwardh1 | Feb 15, 2004 12:22am | #20

   How many times can you refinish 3/4 oak?

   Assuming just normal wear (no stains that require deep sanding)?

7. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 15, 2004 02:22am | #22

   The field was Bruce 5/16 Brazilon Cherry .. glued to a concrete floor up in a condo unit. The border was from Oshkosh Hardwoods .... not sure what all the woods in there were..... knew at the time ... walnut/cherry/ash ... something like that?

   The border came in strips ... think it was 4 or so inches wide amd about 24 or 26 inches long ...

   the corner pieces had the corner diamonds already attached.

   The whole thing was pieced and glued together on a thin cork backing.

   all edges just square cut .. no t and g's ...

   Lotsa people say they don;t like Bruce ... guess I don;t work with enough flooring to know better .... I like the stuff. Never had a problem installing the stuff.

   About the only flooring I stay away from is unfinished 3/4 ... install and finish.

   I can install just fine .... just not a finish scientist ... that's where the magic happens.

   I usually sub the whole thing out if they want ... "real hardwood" ...

   Jeff

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

5. 
   aim | Feb 13, 2004 03:14pm | #9

   CARPET!

6. 
   andybuildz | Feb 13, 2004 05:48pm | #11

   Spose its a matter of taste.

   And who ever thought up 3/4" and why?

   My circa:1680 house has "one inch" flooring in a lot of the rooms and I don't think its ever been sanded.

   The new floor I'm putting in my living room is 3/4" wide plank (10-15") from "Carlyle" up in Maine. Theres relief grooves in the back of it so I imagine thats to be considered in the sanding process over the next 300+ years...lol.

   To me, 3/4 should be the minimum.....but thats just me.

   BE skimpy

             andy

   My life is my practice!

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM