I’m adding a second floor to a very, very old (colonial times) one story dwelling. The second floor is actually more of a roof system than a true second floor.
It’s a basic 11 pitch hip roof on a 26′ X 55′ rectangle, with a 20′ shed dormer on each of the 55′ sides and about a 10′ hipped dormer on each of the 26′ sides. For the deck or floor we clear spanned the 26′ direction with 14″ BCI 900’s.
We fixed as much as we could in the floor framing. We took some of the curse out of the ‘out of squareness’ and at least got the sides parallel and of equal lengths and have a true level floor. But the diagonals still differ by a whopping 6″.
But now I’ve got to put a roof on this thing. Anybody got any tips for this kind of re-work?
I’m thinking that the only thing I should really cut ahead of time is the ridge, the 11 pitch commons, and the shed commons. I suppose I could mathematically figure out the hips (I figure I’ll have two longer hips and two shorter hips) but I’m thinking it’s a waste of time and I’m gonna be better off just taping in the hips and cutting them to fit. The jack-fill shouldn’t be too bad, will just need to adjust the bevel of the cheek cuts some. Sheathing this thing might be a bitch though.
I got a call to frame a new house today…… man, after 6 additions in a row that is just music to my ears.
Replies
Good Lord. 6'' and the sides are parallel and the same length.
Truly amazing.
We once had to hide a 2 ft longer side in a hundred foot long bldg.
You are creating magic, no?
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Yeah, I'm afraid I'm gonna need my whole bag of tricks on this one Cal. I know I can make the roof work, it's just gonna be a watchmaker's frame like the rest of it has been.
But I'm afraid I don't stand much of a chance at having square rooms inside. Most of the space is broken up with kneewalls in the rafters. If I try to move them to make square rooms I'll be knocking them out of parallel with the rafters and that means the stud height will change. That'll be more obvious to the eye than out of square rooms.View Image
Strange things happen in those woods.
You might find after you jostle the rafters around to make them "right", you might have to move the walls a bit OR they'll be "off" in relation to the rest of the visible frame.
I truly don't know. I've hidden goofiness and it truly does try one's patience.
What kind of shingles if you didn't mention. And are the rafter lengths going to be different enough you'll have to stretch the shingle exposure?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
30 year archies.... and as to the rest....sigh.... I really don't know. I think I can keep all the commons the same and the dormers are all large enough to really break up any long runs.
I wanted to re-plumb and line the walls and rack the existing house around but there's two finished existing rooms which are to be preserved so I was given the red light on that idea. I was told to just "do the best you can with it". I pulled my hair out for the first two days on this thing because I couldn't mentally shift gears and realize that "much better" is acceptable on this job.... I kept aiming for "perfect" and the truth is.... that's just not going to happen here given what I have to work with.
Sometimes you play the hand you get dealt. I'll booger this f'er together one way or another. :)View Image
There nothing wrong with the caveman method of measuring everthing, slow yes but if it works the first time thats the best way.
I am not sure if you have one square corner of the building or not, if so try pulling all your measurements from there and maybe things won't turn out so bad.
I always determine my most important points to have square bathtubs, cabinets, vanitys. That sort of stuff and bury the 200 year old crap in a closet somewhere.
Good to hear about your new frame, at least you can use that testicle for what you want and not a trade for a job.
I landed a 2300 sq ft ranch today 8 ft walls and 8/12 pitch holy cow I thought these things had gone extinct.
Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
"8/12 pitch"
Man, they make different ranchers in your neck 'o the woods! 'Course, a ranch in snow country never made much sense to me anyway. Round here 4/12 is common, 6/12 is getting steep.
All the houses I have framed for the last few years have been 10/12 to 12/12 pitches. The roof probably would only have to a 6/12 if he didn't want vaulted ceilings in his living room. So we are going to use scissor trusses 8/12 on the roof and 4/12 on the ceiling.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
I don't doubt you about the pitches - I just stop calling em ranches at that point. Lots of steeper pitches here now as well, all (or mostly) McMansions...
now yer talking more my kinda framing!
nothing precut ... throw the calculator away ...
string lines ... bevel gauges ... and a tape.
get it close ... and nail it tight.
helps to have a saw up there with ya too. (quick ... buy that makita lit ion!)
plan on a guy high and low to check each rafter on each end for a good fit ...
even once U get the pattern set somethings gonna change ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
ouch ,Mabye snap out or string almost square on the top plates and you can figure out what each rafter will grow or shrink.Mabye some custom rip strips for the interior walls. If there's tails i would probably leave em long and cut them later.
Split the difference. or just eyeball it and call it good.
Can you get the 55' run almost paralell and ripstrip and fight the short side.
Gotta pick yer battles.
Edited 6/26/2006 11:35 pm by fishdog
<Sheathing this thing might be a bitch though.
This is a time to scrap the 4x8 and use 1x's for decking
Sounds like you have a parallelogram--sides equal and parallel but not square (not that it helps to know this!). There is no overhang, right? If there were, you might get away with making the short sides soffits taper to the walls, so the roof itself could be square. But I imagine that on a real Colonial there is no overhang. I still wonder if you could "violate the rules" and put a small overhang just on the short sides--maybe so small as to be hardly noticeable, but enough to at least help some with getting the roof square. If I understand your post correctly, this is a hip roof, not a gable? If so, then maybe making your top plate on the short walls out of 2x8 that starts flush to the exterior of the wall at the corner and then is hanging beyond the wall 3" (or whatever you need) at the other corner may work.
If you pull off the straight side in the rooms the other side kneewall top to ceiling will slant on you so compensate by making the room slightly out of square.Don't ask how I know this.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
Andy and Calvin are right Diesel.
This is a job for a master boogerer!!!!
Your roof is the least of your problems. 6" out of square isn't a big enough deal to even mention (Just kidding).
Seriously, you have already solved the most critical details on the roof by getting the main span paralell. You really didn't need to get the ends paralell and it would be a mistake to do so if it is going to adversely affect the wall layouts below. My gut reaction is that it won't be a big deal either way because the entire room layout will be booger city.
I wouldn't bat an eye or lose one step if this was a hip. Remember, when I frame a roof, I work from my outside of fascia to the ridge. Most of you guys work from your heel to the ridge and treat the overhang as a secondary operation. This seemingly minor detail may, or may not make a difference to you, but for me, on an old nasty frame/remodel, it makes a ton of difference.
I'd have the fascia up and done before I cut the roof. I'd probably engineer the overhang so I didn't have to cut a birdsmouth. Instead, I'd add heel blocks and connect them with plywood gussets. This would allow me to fly the rafter over the wavy, uneven walls and custom cut each block/heel.
So, my main rafter and the two commons on the ends would be equal.
This will cause you to have four different hips. It's not really that big of a deal if you don't let it freak you out.
Myself, I would simply install the commons, then tape the hips. Theoretically, they'll be two pairs, one longer than the other. I could calculate them, but I wouldn't. To get my cuts, I would simply tape the total rise and total run of the hip. I'd divide this number by 10 and use a framing square to give me the cuts. I've done this hundreds of times and it works fine.
The side cuts for your jacks is easily determined by laying the square along the hip and reading the numbers on the edge of the overhang. I probably wouldn't go to this trouble but would adjust my sidecuts, by feel. I'd just tip the saw slightly in one direction or the other as I made the cut.
Actually, the sidecut adjustments will be the biggest hassle. I'd guess that you will need a two or three degree adjustment. I tend to make most of my jack cuts in two steps: 1) I cut the rafter to length with a square cut. 2) I recut along the long point with the sidecut. So for me, I'd just have to keep my mental mind on adjusting the second step a couple of degrees. One each pair, I'd be thinking something like this: "short point-42 degrees. Long point 48 degrees." In each case, my saw would still be set to 45 degrees-I'd just tip the table slightly as I made my pass.
Of course, each adjacent corner would have opposite adjustements. I'm sure I'd be mentally confused when I started each corner.
There is a very high probability that I'd be cutting each section from the Skybox- or maybe not...it depends on my mood and the demands of the other guys on the machine.
I'd probably run the hip and do a 16" layout from the common onto the hips, then just measure a couple to determine my difference in lengths. Again, I could calculate it rather easily, but I probably wouldn't. Or maybe I would if I was in the mood for a mental challenge.
This isn't really as bad as you think. It's harder than a true rectangle but not so hard that it will confuse a dedicated framer like yourself.
The interior wall layouts will be significantly harder to deal with, espcecially since you've already said that there are kneewalls. The level lines at the ceiling joints will drive you crazy becasue there won't be any level lines!
blue
" I'd divide this number by 10 and use a framing square to give me the cuts. I've done this hundreds of times and it works fine"
Where'd the 10 come from?
a local steel worker always told me, put it together loose, then shake the hell out of it and let it settle down.
" I'd divide this number by 10 and use a framing square to give me the cuts. I've done this hundreds of times and it works fine"
Where'd the 10 come from?
I divide by ten because it's easy.
I would meausure the total run and total rise in inches.
Lets make it easy: the total rise is 85". The total run is 143.75".
I'd hold 8.5" and 14.375" on the square. The 8.5 is my plumb cut and the 14.375" is my level cut.
We normally use trusses and usually, we have to cut in the hips. I've got a couple guys that don't know that there's another way to find the hip lengths and cuts! LOL!
blue
Where do you get one of those framing squares with the decimals on them? :)
Or is it your speed square that has the decimals on it. :)Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Your probably all over this by now. This is the first I've seen of this thread and it's Tues nite.
Stop trying to make this something it won't be. Toss the calculator and use your smarts and instincts. Your hip will differ from one another an inch and a half or so given that the ends are out six inches. Use your ruler, that is why you own one.
Don't sweat it. Do the best you can and let it be known that this will NOT be perfection. Learn from this. This is how new construction guys go tits up doing remodeling.
Upon completion of this project you will have earnd CEU's towards a remodeling diploma. You will now be a more rounded carpenter with a vastly greater knowledge of what it take to asses and complete an out of the ordinary project.
Eric
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I'm with Jeff on this one. Stirng lINes and Bevel squares.
If you set the ridge at least, You can work everything else off of it and find a balance.
Hey Diesel,
I've seen a lot of your posts and work so this should be no problem.
From what I gather:
Run ridge parallel to long parallel walls.
Hips will be different lengths.
String and tape your jacks on the hips.
Framing the roof square might lead to problems on soffit/ overhang
Hip jacks may be a hair off 45 but not enough to cause problems
Trying to adjust roof to soak up error could cause "out of plane-ness" (new word)
My opinion...I've done similar but closer to 3-4" out of square.
Judo Chop!
I'm sorry I don't have time right now to respond individually to all the good posts I've received... but I will. I got wrapped up in the RedSox/Mets game last night and I'm running a lil late this morning.
We're going to start cutting this sucker today. I'm just gonna throw a huge pile of lumber, a couple saws, and a couple framing squares up on the deck and have it. Custom fit. A few strings and a protractor and leave the calculator in the truck. Old skool baby.
Thanks very much for the advice and sympathy. ;) If nothing else, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who's had to booger something like this together. I want to have it all sticked in by Friday afternoon at the latest cuz we're shutting down next week for vacation and I don't want this bugger haunting me while I'm on the beach!View Image
I remember yer stated mission at the beach ...
great timing ...
You'll feel like a real man after this!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
LOL....
Well, we kicked azz today. Framed, sheathed, and stood the two 10' hipped dormers and the two 20' shed dormers. I got to the site at about 6:30 this morning and snapped out the whole thing right on the "deck" (see below). All the dormers, the ridge, the commons, the shed commons, the main hips, and the dormer bastard hips.
After the walls went up and were plumbed and lined, we just loaded up with 2x10 and 2x12 and cut right up there on the deck. Cut, pass, and nail. I was able to use my snapped out plan view to take measurements and everything fit first cut today. We got all the main roof commons up, all the shed commons up (the sheds were set back different amounts so they each had a seperate pitch and rafter), and set the main hips.
Tommorow we'll work on the jack fill and the dormer bastard hips.
So far so good, and I'm pretty psyched.
I didn't know whether or not to bring this up here, cuz I was afraid some might think it was silly, but here's what we end up doing on this job after discussing it with the GC:
Yesterday we put down an EPDM roof on the whole new deck. We didn't glue it down, we just glued and taped the seams. So now we're framing this whole roof system/second floor right on top of the EPDM. The weather has been just awful lately with no breaks in site. We've been getting occasional thunder bursts as well as plain old rainy days. Finished rooms below and me leaving for vacation next week. It's a pretty big roof and it's pretty cut up, so tarping would've been an absolute struggle every night and tarps....even at their best....leak.
So we rubber roofed the whole damn thing! LOL... it's killer. We worked all day today in a steady rain and the house stayed dry as a bone. We wouldn't have been able to work today (and probably tommorow and Friday) without it, so it's working out to be a no-brainer from a cost stand point.
I dunno... some will probably think it's a waste of time and money, but I'm sold on this system. I won't bid another add-a-level again unless I can get the cost of this rubber roof built in. It's just working out awesome. It's keeping us on schedule and we don't have to worry about losing the finished rooms below. When the shingles go on, we'll just run around with a utility knife around the plates and it'll be history.View Image
Kudo's to ya.
SamT
I like that EPDM idea!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Diesel - We are suffering from the same storms. How are you getting rid of the water on the deck/EDPM? If it's flat, seems you are stuck. Broom to the edge? Sections of plate missing?
Don't tell half the story.<G>
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
He has a very thirsty dog.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
We made up a bunch of 'plate stock' by clamping two 16' 2x6's together and drilling the 'seam' with a 1 1/2" spade bit at 2' on center. So when we took the clamps off we were left with two 16' bottom plates with half-moon shaped 3/4" deep drain channels. Follow me? I'm not sure I did the best job describing that.
We kept up with the sawdust by sweeping from time to time so the drain holes didn't get get plugged and occasionally helped the water along over to the holes with the broom. Worked pretty dang good.
I suppose we could have just hacked out pieces of the plate but I figured I had better at least give the appearance of knowing what I'm doing. ;)View Image
If it's flat, seems you are stuck.
The building is 6" out of square...........level might be relative......
seems like the real chalenge would be getting water to STAY on the deck ;-)
Edit.....I really like that idea for drilling the bottom plates.
Edited 6/29/2006 1:16 pm ET by pickings
Two days to frame the floor system..... it better be level by now!View Image
I just bid an add a level on existing McMansion, and I figured the epdm roof was the way to go. We will be working over 2 furnaces, 800 Amp service, the exercise room, and the kids big screen media room.Not to much room for error.
I figured the cost of the rubber was less than one of the plasma TVs.
I hope the weather is cooperating for you the rest of the week, I've definitly seen enough rain for awhile.
Do you find the lift useful on these jobs? I'm lucky if I have enough room for my van on the job, never mind the lift.
Have fun at the beach.
Greg in overcast Connecticut
Greg, this is the job with the propertly line 18" from the house and the disgruntled neighbors on both sides...... ain't fitting the machine in here! Up until this past spring I hardly ever did additions.... just new construction with the occasional addition thrown in as filler. So the machine was always busy. This past spring I've found the machine usable on about 1/2 the jobs (additions). Just depends on the lot and the conditions.
Geez, I thought I was being all smart with the EPDM idea.... sounds like it's old hat for you. So I guess I'm not as weird as I thought!
At this point, weather be damned...... we're working this week and then I'm going to the beach.... I don't care if it snows.View Image
2 things .. what does "square " mean ?
and .... did you send a sympathy card to Peddy ?
Wow ! welcome to the neighborhood.. 3 innings and bye-byeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That was pretty sweet, huh? When he botched that double play ball, I relaxed. We had it in the bag at that point. I'm glad he was cheered in the beginning. But I'm thrilled that he got lit up. Schilling v Glavin tonight.... another pretty sweet match up.View Image
bring all the rubber to the Fest ...
at the very least ... Andy can put off replacing that Tipi ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Paint some flames on the rubber teepee!
what happens to the EPDM when you're done?where did you get the EPDM?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
I'll probably save a few pieces, but most will end up in the dumpster if the GC doesn't want it. Remember, it's not going to come up as one nice big sheet.... it's going to come up sized the same as the bedrooms, bathrooms, hallways, etc since we're framing right over it.
We bought it at Harvey Industrial... it's a roofing, window, and siding distributer.View Image
Save some for me!I have a piece for my generator cover
Another for the tablesaw when out on the job
One for a tarp on tools in the pickup
I'm sure I can think of more uses
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you can use it to make a water feature at your house.or a post at fine home gardening someone might take it away.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
What did the EPDM cost you?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Hi Jon,
We spent about $1300 on materials for 4 rolls (10'x50') plus the 3 gallons of cement, a gallon of primer, and two 200' rolls of seam tape. I didn't actually pick up the material so I don't know what cost what, but we only used two gallons of cement, none of the primer/cleaner, and one roll of the tape.... which we probably could have skipped but seemed like good insurance at the time. Also had a little over 1/2 a roll of rubber left in the end. Also bought some rollers and pans for the rubber cement. Also gotta figure in 3 guys for a couple hours.
What do you think... waste of money or worthwhile? I gotta admit... I just got back from a week's vacation and it was awful nice to not recieve any phone calls regarding ruining ceilings and floors. :)View Image
What do you think... waste of money or worthwhile? I gotta admit... I just got back from a week's vacation and it was awful nice to not recieve any phone calls regarding ruining ceilings and floors. :)
We have a second floor addition coming up and I've got two 40x60 tarps figured in to the price for the job. The EPDM never occurred to me as an option.
I will admit that in your situation it's seems like it would work out well. Our projects is a 24'x38' 5/12 gable roof addition that I think we will just try to focus on getting dried in as quickly as possible. It really shouldn't be that bad, but I must admit after reading the responses to your project (planning on replace ceiling GWB/plaster and finish floors) I'm a little nervous.
I guess there's one way to find out for myself, right?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,
Just trust your gut if it's already bid. I've done a bunch of add-a-levels and this isn't the first time the epdm idea occured to me, but it is the first time I pulled the trigger on it.
On many... maybe even most, of the other tear-offs the EPDM would have been overkill. If you've got a couple of good days of weather in front of you and a fairly simple design that can be dried back in quickly.... go for it. A couple of good long days and you'll be back in business.
This last job was just a mess though. It took two full days just to get the new floor framed and sheathed and we were stuck in a humid weather pattern that was pounding us with thunderstorms every afternoon. Throw in the cut-up roof and my vacation in the middle of the job and it was a fine looking mess indeed!
I think the key is the complexity of the roof system and/or your ability to cut and install it fast enough. I don't mean "your" ability specifically.... I mean whoever is doing the job. I say this because it seems like once you sick a couple gables up or a few dormers or a handful of rafters.... those things just get harder and harder to tarp. If you're looking at tarping on and off for a week or more..... those man-hours can really add up if you're doing a decent job and the frame is relatively cut-up.
In your case, a simple 5/12 gable roof shouldn't be open for all that long. And even if it is, a highly effective tarp job can be done in a reasonable amount of time quite safely. My job was/is an 11 pitch main hip with two 20' shed dormers and two bastard hipped smaller dormers. Lots of nooks and crannies to tarp on a steep roof.
Just food for thought. In hindsight, I'm sure I'll use this system again sometime but I doubt I'll do it on every add-a-level. I'll just do a little 'risk assessment' when the time comes. But I have no regrets in doing it on this last job and I think it was the right time and place for it.View Image
You know, you might be responsible for getting your name attached to a new trendWe've got Mooney Walls
and Piffin screwshow's "Brian's PDM" grab ya? Let it roll of your tongue a few times before you decide
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin screws? hmmm
"DieselPig Skin"
"With every mistake we must surely be learning"
I like it, but shorten it up to pigskinbe pigskinned
I like it. From now on, all second story additions will be protected by pigskins on the deck;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That's Pigskins..... with a capital "P". :)View Image
I love it. "DieselPig Skin" it is. ;-)
-- J.S.
I remember there being a thread here a while back about some kind of temporary roof covering material that was more watertight and safer to walk on than tarps, but less expensive than EPDM. But I must be remembering the name wrong. The name I remember was this stuff, which looks like a full bore EPDM, not a temporary material:
http://www.rooftopguard.com/en/home.html
-- J.S.
John,
If your link is referring to the product you're thinking about, I would not recommend it's use in an application like a second floor addition.
Just today I used about 10 squares of Berger Brothers Synthetic UDL to dry in an addition. While it's great for this application, I know of no way to effectively seal the laps so it would function in a low-slope application.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks, that looks like a better material than the one I found. Being good for a full year of exposure sure is better. If only the seam sealing problem can be solved, it would make a more cost effective Diesel Pigskin than EPDM.
-- J.S.
> .... but most will end up in the dumpster if the GC doesn't want it. Remember, it's not going to come up as one nice big sheet.... it's going to come up sized the same as the bedrooms, bathrooms, hallways, etc ....
Hmmm --- Why spend the time and labor cutting it loose and schlepping it to the dumpster? What harm would there be if it stayed there forever? It might even limit the extent of damage if some future puppy piddles on the carpet.
-- J.S.
Diesel
I thought I was being smart using the Epdm, then finding out a kid beat me to the idea. You're as creative as I was when I first started framing, hope you never lose that energy.
I enjoy framing homes, but the demand for a good job and decent price aren't in the same sentence here in Connecticut. Builders want it up quick, cheap and we'll hire someone to fix the mistakes after its done.
I'm doing more remodeling now,and am finding it very rewarding.New construction framing prices are down about 20%, and a legit contractor with insurance and taxes are finding it hard to compete.
I think my first vacation this year will be tipi-fest in august.
Greg in Connecticut
Diesel, I'm still waiting for the report on those hipsets. How did they go?
blue
It went great Blue. I didn't frame the overhangs the way you suggested, because I didn't fully understand what you meant by not cutting a seatcut and using a 'pitch block' (I forget the term you used) instead. However I would like to explore that technique a little further with you for future use. This roof (with the exception of the dormers) was framed on a 2x6 plate right on the deck as opposed to on top of the wall. This made snapping out the major framing members a breeze and I just taped them off the floor and used rise/run to cut everything.
Ended up with two matching long hips and two matching shorter hips.... diagonally opposing pairs. The cheek cut on the jacks was off by such a small amount that I just left it at 45 and it still looked pretty slick.
The end result is that the fasica line is dead nuts straight. But the old (existing wall) underneath still has it's original meandering line. I can't fix it if they won't let me, right? No magic wands in my toolbelt anyway. The good news is that I went with about an 18" overhang so with an 11 pitch roof it dropped substantially below the plate line and I went with a full bearing 2x6 seatcut to drop it even further. That about covered all the new floor framing and brought the soffit right back to about where it originally was. The old wall has a layer of cedar shingle siding, followed by foam board and vinyl siding. What's left (maybe 2") for space between my new soffit and the existing vinyl can be furred out easily enough by the sider with his foam insulation board. He would have had to fur it out anywho because of all the existing layers.
Done. Now on to the next headache....... I'll take a picture when I get back (I'm officially on vacation for the next week) of the wacky way the front dormers tie into the main hip roof. They have hips of their own sitting at a 68/22 degree angle. So the jacks on the main dormer face tie into their own hips with a 68 degree check cut and a king common of their own dieing into the main house ridge (instead of a main house king common). But the framing on the other side of those bastard hips is gonna have to come off that bastard hip and somehow tie into the main house common hip. Tough to explain... a picture or a scan of the plans would do a much better job. Either way... I'm a little stumped and may be looking for a push in the right direction. I'll post some pics when I get back.
But that's after vacation. :) Thanks for having some interest in my little nightmare and thanks for the vote of confidence. And as always, I appreciate your help.View Image
Ended up with two matching long hips and two matching shorter hips.... diagonally opposing pairs. The cheek cut on the jacks was off by such a small amount that I just left it at 45 and it still looked pretty slick.
I kinda figured that would happen. I've framed my share of stuff with imperfect angles and I probably know more than anyone in here that when your nailing an angled cut onto a hip, a hard whack will make up for a lot of slop on the angles. You have to cut a jack really, really wrong for it not to fit. The cut eventually fits tight when the rafter twists slightly or bows.
You've just discovered one of the major reason why I've framed so many layons by eye.
blue
some will probably think it's a waste of time and money,
Not me brother! How much does yer insurance cost?
That's simply great insurance ... very smart.
plus ... anyone that thinks it's a waste of time/money ... how much money they making sitting at home thru all the bad weather? bet they're not making too much time either ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I don't want this bugger haunting me while I'm on the beach!
and especially not while you working on the main goal of the trip....
LOL... yeah that true too Neil. Gotta focus......View Image