the electrician who calculated this, using a 1962 Codebook, determined that the box is NOT overfilled !!!
Why ’62 ? see the small ground wires in the cables in the bottom of the box ?
the calc. was just his guess since the wire gauge(s) are hard to detetmine from a photo
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Replies
Do you know anything about the history of box fill calaculations?
Because most of the old boxes I see are very "confined".
these were listed by the sparks who didi the calcdevice deducts were ONE wire for each yoke....today it is TWOgrounds were not counted and they were also smaller that 4' box could hold one more #14 (11)ALL the clamps inside the box were counted as ONE,... today each clamp is counted in '68 the tables were revised ,
place this info in the FORENSIC file"
it's simple...
1962=Kennedy was pres.
1968=Nixon
JFK was too busy boffing MM to get the codes right!!!
Damn horny democrats!!!
Mr. T. MOTOL
"I think natural selection must have greatly rewarded the ability to reassure oneself in a crisis with complete bull$hit."
I'm Swiss!
yeah....that's it........"
The old standard taught to me by some old timers was...as many as you can jamb into the box with a hammer handle and get cover on.
One of them used to rough in houses with a carpenter's axe. Nailed up boxes and stapled and chopped the romex against a stud.
If you haven't drawn blood today, you haven't done anything.
Re: "One of them used to rough in houses with a carpenter's axe."LOL.Been on a couple jobs where that was done. Looked a bit crude and so I got 'civilized' about it and used a slightly modified pair of fencing pliers. You know the ones, with the waffle hammer face on one side and the hook on the other.I deepened the wire cutting grooves on one side to make it faster to cut NM cable and ground the end of one of the handle halves to make a rough screwdriver/ pry bar. Worked pretty well once I got into the swing of using it instead of separate tools. The jaws were great at removing staples that went in wrong or had to be moved and the hammer on the side was good for slamming them in, gently of course, and nailing up boxes. The screwdriver was good for freeing up the closures in plastic boxes and prying mislocated boxes off studs.I was going to grind the other leg to make a hook for snagging wire being threaded through corners and was thinking of slotting the hook to accept a blade for slitting the jacket before it gets stuffed into the box but never got around to it.At one time I was fiddling with designing and field testing an innovative, perhaps better, general purpose rough-in tool. I guess if I hadn't learned the realities of the patent and manufacturing system I would have tried to patent it and/or interest a manufacturer. Happened the same way with a few gadgets I have come up with. Why push a potentially better unit when mediocre with hype makes the manufacturer more money. The US used to lead the world in patents and innovation. Not any more. But that's a discussion for another time.
what do you run conduit for in your area?"
Ran across 3 #10 TW solids in a 3/4" pipe once. Four 90's. We thought we might be able to pull it out and use the pipe for the #8's we were pulling, but we soon became puzzled as to how the tens got into the pipe in the first place.If you haven't drawn blood today, you haven't done anything.
Conduit.Some commercial jobs spec EMT. Also a good call for exposed wiring. Sometimes in a garage for old work a length of EMT makes for a quick extension of an existing circuit. A box extension on the box in the wall, a length of EMT with ####couple of box offsets and a four-square box with a quad cover and its all set. And there wasn't any need for the customer to clear the moving van load of boxes out of the attic so we could do the job.Used to be all hotels and most apartments used EMT. Codes and the local authorities have shifted their mindset, the foul oaths and threats from the builders might have had something to do with it, and now allow NM in these locations now.Now even nursing homes are going in with MC. Not as weak a system as NM but nowhere near as adaptable or sturdy as EMT. Rigid is still used in some industrial settings and classified locations but most only seen used for masts in residential. Stub ups used to be rigid but largely this has gone to PVC.
I know that Chicago is an "island " when it comes to using NM , and some of the surrounding counties allow only EMT in residential as well , I work west of the City ,in DuPage County, everything is EMT, and the residential scale is IDENTICAL to the commercial ....right now that is $31.05 on the check .PVC is for underground ....with steel elbows
Ridgid for slab work and risers
EMT ...inside
NM is NOT even allowed for temp wiring, ...but I think that is the same everywhere now In one town ,they followed Chicago Code and, among other things required the ground in a house be run in GRS, and Plenum wiring allowed EMT with compression fittings only, gasketed covers on ALL j-boxes, no holes in the 4 squares, special flex for fixture whips and the sealing of all stub-ups for low voltage
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I like EMT. Not quite the bother of rigid with all the threading, strong arm bending and necessity to keep track of which way to assemble the lengths to avoid using expensive threadless couplings. EMT make a nice system that has multiple ground path redundancy when a ground is pulled, IMHO always a good idea, and it makes for easy upgrades as long as you don't max out the conduits on the first go. Bends easy up to inch and a quarter, inch and a half if who journeyman work together and you can find the bender, with hand benders and cuts easy enough with nothing more complicated than a hacksaw. On small jobs this is pretty quick but you can still bring in Chicago benders and Portabands and gain some time on larger jobs with repetative bends.
some contractors here have tried to use AC,and MC ,but the inspectors have made it a very costly experience in every instance !!"
AC and MC are not allowed in Omaha. The inspectors and board claim that it is because the inspector can't tell what type of cable it is and therefore what code to apply. Also, to hard to confirm proper use of fittings. Word on the street is that the Union put on the pressure to get rid of it because it saved to much labor.
Personally, I think it is one of the dirtiest products to work with. Oily and covered with oxidized aluminum.If you haven't drawn blood today, you haven't done anything.
Re: "AC and MC are not allowed in Omaha."That's interesting and points out regional differences. The NEC allows MC in a whole lot of places. It is almost as highly rated as RMC. In fact around here they allow MC in hospitals and nurseing homes. A location which had been almost entirely EMT or better.I agree that MC can be messy stuff. The MDS based grease they use when pulling it through the dies gets everywhere. Not good stuff to use in a furnished house with white wool carpets.
I did work on a nursing home in South Bend, and the supervision had beev newly hired .
The shop was traditionally an outside contractor trying to break into other markets
and this guy (Mr. M) was a "bungalow buster" and knew little if nothing of the requirements.the bulk of the work was in pipe, but for a special reason the critical care area was done in MC. Mr. M talked the shop into hiring his buddy and that guy could not bend pipe. The two of them were going to show the shop how much quicker it would be to use MC. ...and they decided the critical care area was just the place to show off !
It took about a week, and then it failed inspection !!However, after ripping ALL of the cable out.,and replacing it with the proper Green cable, (it had something to do with the EGC /cable bonding)...it failed again !
Mr M 's buddy would not install the anti-shorts , " they don't need 'em"........
Needless to say...they screwed up their timesaving demo the jobs downward spiral continued until it started to resemble the Caine Munity
"
yeah ,#12 TW solid......oh the memories,
the only good thing about pulling solid wire through pipe ?
you quickly found out where all the loose fittings were.I NEVER enjoyed mounting panels, either
a 3lb. hammer and a star drill was torture"