Y’all dont even have to respond. Just sit back and shake your collective heads.
Long story short. Friend of mine is building a house. Asks if I want to trim it for him. Sure I’ll have a look at the prints. In the couple of months that have transpired since our first conversation, I have had ample opportunity to have that sixth sense crop up and say watch out man, this builder just ain’t right somehow. But I don’t know him, I haven’t dealt with him. So I’m walking carefully forward. House is nearing framing completion so I did a walkthrough and generated a takeoff so i could bid it.
Gave bid to builder. Who called back. Wondered how I came up with a number thats about 3x higher than he did. I said, “I just did a takeoff on what they wanted and priced it” – not really trying to be smart, that’s just all there was to it. He says, get this, he allowed $7K for trim materials on a 2 story 3700 sq ft house which is supposed to have 7 1/2″ tall base and 5 1/2″ casing, columns, wrapped beams, raised panel wainscot . . . and figured labor would just naturally match materials. So he allowed 14K to trim the whole house. I’m like, you came up with that how? Well, uh, I dunno, I built a house about half that size once and I thought that was about $4K so I just figured this would be $7K.
Needless to say, the sixth sense got up and left when the sledgehammer hit me in the face. I won’t be working on this house.
“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.” – Mark Twain
Replies
R U gonna warn friend about that sledgehammer?
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Oh heck yes, done. I dialed him right away and said "um, you guys might want to revisit this issue" . . . and told him the numbers. He turned various shades of red, thanked me, and I went on with my day."If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
I've had a couple of people tell me in the past the way to figure cost is to take material and double it, and that's the cost...
Never could really explain why they thought way, that's just way it is....
guess it doesn't matter if you build those kitchen cabinets out of oak or cherry, or if you want out of IPE or PT lumber....
Had a welding shop say their labor is 3x material cost. Then material cost went up 40% in a month or so. Guess that means they thought they got a labor raise, too. Actually, meant I got a welder...paid for itself 10 times over on first project.
I was told that by alot of HVAC contractors. having worked in a HVAC supply house at one time I knew the prices and it made sense. Really doesnt work as well for us. Is that a $200 exterior door or a $2000 door?
Nice.
Guys like that can be reassuring when you're worrying about your own business being viable in the long run.
BTW: if you're just guessing at a job cost, shouldn't you guess high?
DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
Looked at two of my homes with very nice trim / cabinet packages. Budget does not include stain and finish on the cabinets.
Materials and Labor / almost 50 / 50 trim and cabinets
4400 SF LA $49,670.00
3260 SF LA $46,995.00
Custom Home $14,000.00 trim and cabinets for 3700 SF, or even trim only? Not me.
Edited 12/7/2005 10:03 am ET by txlandlord
You know, just seeing the cost comparo there was most gratifying. While nice, this would still have been paint grade, which saves some on the material cost. I came up right about $40K without including any cabinets.
Time has an amazing way of cooling the jets. I was pretty hot over this yesterday, not really for me, but the idea of my friend finding this gem and having to deal with the end result. I still think he's in a pickle (that he put himself in - I told him I'd rather be his friend than his builder so I gave him 3 names to go to and they were all "too expensive", do the math) that he'll have to find a way out of. "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
$40,000.00 for trim only would be high for the Houston area, but we benefit from "south of the border" labor.
I know this may be sour subject for some, but if you do not use the avaliable hispanic labor force at reduced pricing you can not compete. We have learned to adjust, and if you hear the stories from my south of the border amigos, the heart of a compassionate person would reach out and help. $7.00 - $9.00 per day for the same kind of work in Mexico.
We also probably benefit from a materials stand point because of the huge volume of materials sold in the area.
Budget for labor and materials for 3700 SF upgrade / paint grade trim only package, not to inlcude builder profit and overhead would be about $26,000.00, or $7.00 per SF. Cabinets would be slightly higher, depending on number of built-ins, material specs and door style.
What method do you use to calculate labour for trim? Doing a takeoff for materials I can do easily enough. My best guess is 25 LF per hour for paint grade and 75% more for stain grade. If the casings and/or base were solid lumber, eg, 1x4 or 1x6 fir which is not unusual around here, I would halve the LF-per-hour rate to allow for the increased planing into corners.
I'm just starting out with the estimating thing, practicing on side jobs with an eye to a future business. Any tips appreciated.Lignum est bonum.
What method do you use to calculate labour for trim?
My own. Which everyones gotta do. For new construction, I have a spreadsheet that started years ago which has pretty much everything I've done on it and how long it took. That got used to create, and periodically update, a benchmark sheet which I use for bidding houses. By benchmark I mean you've got some task in there that says "Widget, install, $25 per" and I start the bid with that but I go back over it and I walk through the place trying to get a grip on the difference between typical and reality. I'm just trying to put an honest assessment on things. If you have crown to install on a 28' high ceiling, that's going to be priced different than an 8' ceiling.
And some tasks just get an allowance. I use that mostly for built ins and one of a kind things like mantles, bookcases, etc. "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
You might have lost this job, but re: Piffin's post - you kept your friend - probably much more important in the long run.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.