Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 08, 2003 11:04pm | #1

   Since it's already built, all he has to do is looka t what he has to see the details. What am I missing? Where you going with this? Just want to learn something genericly about A-frames?

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   rez | Apr 08, 2003 11:22pm | #2

   Hiya lukes,

   I see you're a first time poster here so Welcome to Breaktime.

   I was a bit curious as to any improvememts your friend might already have in mind for the place. Is he planning on adding dormers or els or something that might need attention as to altering the framing?

   Bet you a milkbone it needs new shingles.

    

    

1. 
   lukes | Apr 09, 2003 02:58pm | #3

   shingles....oh ya!!!!!! original to place, with 70degree pitch. but the general manner in which this style was built leaves concerns about openings being created to the 2nd floor. there is no desire to strip out interior to get clues about floor joists attachment or adding skylights. but then if it was owner built..... and 40 + years ago there was not always building code enforcement. how should the connect of the 2nd floor joist have been done?

1. 
   rez | Apr 10, 2003 01:20am | #4

   If you can't get a hold of someone who actually built them then perhaps a thorough search of the net might come up with a framing diagram.

   Is this a question about building interior stairs in there?

   Shingles on 70 degrees. The good life.

    

    

   Edited 4/9/2003 6:20:51 PM ET by rez

1. 
   MichaelCobb | Apr 10, 2003 03:56am | #5

   I'm an architect in California that works a lot with wood framing. If it was done owner builder, I wouldn't be surprised if those floor joists were lap nailled to the rafters (this is basically the way balloon framing is executed). Nowadays an engineer with his liability at stake would look a little askance at this. Maybe the spans you're talking about are so wimpy that its not an issue. Here in California it doesn't take much for an engineer to support a lap nailed floor joist with a sistered stud. This way, the joist is bearing on the stud and the lap nailing is simply a means to hold the joist in place. Additionally, If you block in between the joists at there junction with the wall studs (or in your case rafters) you have a very sound connection. This little explanation is only meant to address the vertical load bearing aspect of your situation.

   If you are putting a hole in the second floor you might have to worry about bending in the rafters as well. In other words, your second floor could be acting as a collar tie also. I'm sure there are other issues but i hope this helps you get a better idea of what to look for.

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 10, 2003 04:01am | #6

   A framesa of thirty years ago were billed and built as cheap structures in a time when building codes and inspections were far less adequate than they are today. I would be extremely careful about interrupting the framing in any way without a thorough study and probably engineering. The very nature of these structures makes any assumption of typical details dangerous.

   I have seen far too many of these with nothing more than two or three bolts tying the floor joist to the rafter walls. I've also seen a couple built with larger beams of doug fir that were notched together to rival the strength of any timberframe building. I really don't believe htere is a typical detail for this. Always thought of it as a "alternative" style of construction that codes don't cover. Maybe I'm wrong....

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   lukes | Apr 10, 2003 04:18pm | #7

   to all: thanks your info has confirmed most of my fears but, a challenge is often time something to look forward to.

   another question about the a-frame, would applcation of a new shingle roof from the top down be viable?

1. 
   rez | Apr 10, 2003 05:55pm | #8

   lukes-

   sounds like you're not planning a full scale charge up the hill.

    

   construction is war

   Edited 4/10/2003 10:56:14 AM ET by rez

2. 
   lukes | Apr 10, 2003 06:25pm | #9

   it's about priorities and budget. money is money, priority is about fixing what needs to be fixed before making more work.

3. 
   rez | Apr 10, 2003 07:35pm | #10

   ah yes. Money and budget.

   very interesting.

   well, at least you don't have to worry about pooling water.

    

    

4. 
   lukes | Apr 10, 2003 08:08pm | #11

   it is also never the fall only the sudden stop. on the roofing inquiery, it might provide less opportunity to trash the new shingle while working upon the roof.

5. 
   rez | Apr 10, 2003 08:16pm | #12

   I never had the opportunity but always envisioned a set of long ladders that would extend from the ground to peak, secured and sitting just off the roof sheathing.

    

    

6. 
   Piffin | Apr 11, 2003 01:29am | #13

   I know there was anarticle about that way of re-roofing but I've never done it that way. I always strip the whole side at one time and dry in that night. Never a problem with the shingle damage you fear that way..

   Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 11, 2003 03:16am | #14

   lukes.. we've done one or two from the top down...i think steven hazlett has tried it also..

   the main drawback for us is that we like to strip the roof, paper it in... then get a roof top delivery of the shingles.. still....

   i may do a gingerbread victorian with that method .... with the new rooftopguard underlayment  ( it's 5' wide ) it would be a natural..just a little outside of the box thinking to get your sequence and staging correct..

    as to A-frames.. hah..... we remodeled one two years ago.. built by a real hack.. the outside A was 2x4 @ 24"... with 1/4 " paneling as the sheathing.. and the 2d floor was 2x6  with one 1/4 bolt to the A-frame...

   man.. that was a fun job...... one of those where the owner kept having contractors just never call her back after one look...

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   rez | Apr 11, 2003 06:41am | #15

   let me get this right...

   did you say the shell of the A-frame was composed of 2x4 rafters @24" with 1/4 inch paneling for sheathing? Was it  covered with fiberglass or asphalt shingles?

   And the A frame was tall enough to have a second floor in there that was built of 2x6s with one 1/4" bolt holding it to the 2x4 rafter?

   You aren't going to tell me there weren't support walls under the junctions of the rafters and the 2ndfloor joists are you?

    

    

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 11, 2003 02:21pm | #16

   sure... exactly..

   course.. by the time we had got there .. there was a new section added  to extend teh loft area... and that section was framed with 2x10 and a beam...

   kinda strange.. the foundation was good and the first floor frame was good.. but the rest really sucked.. also , someone had added a shed addition to one side.. with no viable plan for tying the roof into the old 2x4 rafters... so that was another abortion....

   i'll see if i can dig up some pics...Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   lukes | Apr 11, 2003 02:43pm | #17

   this one is not that ughly. the rafters are full 2x10s but the 2nd floor is 2x10, 19.2" centers with 1 1/2" of flooring spanning over 17' a little springy. would blocking connecting the floor joists together help?

   Edited 4/11/2003 8:33:27 AM ET by lukes