As a real estate agent a major obstacle that often keeps my buyers from purchasing a fixer-upper is that they are afraid they will not find good reliable contractors to do the improvements. My solution, I recommend contractors that I have personally worked with in the past. This works out great for everyone involved. First, my client gets a good value because they are able to purchase a house that was not in demand. The contractors take good care of my clients so that I would continue referring them, and I sell a house the other brokers could not.
Now here is my problem. This year I moved from <!—-><!—-> <!—->California<!—-><!—-> to <!—-><!—->Chicago<!—-> <!—->. As I build my business here I don’t have personal experience with any contractors to recommend. I have been attempting to put a together a group of contractors by reading reviews from Angie’s List. This has proven to be a slow and inefficient process. Since I am putting my name and reputation behind the contractor I want to know a little about them and how they do business. I find when I call them up; many think I am trying to sell them something. Most just don’t believe that I am willing to refer them with out some kind of strings attached.
So, I need some help finding good, professional contractors in <!—-> <!—->Chicago<!—-><!—->. Do any of you guys know some one I can talk to? What about trade groups and associations? It seems that a contractor’s trade group might be a good source. Do you guys know of any trade groups or associations here? Please feel free to email me or call me. Thanks in advance for your help.
<!—-> <!—-> <!—->
<!—->Jason Shaw <!—-> <!—-> <!—->
@ Properties <!—-><!—->
Broker Associate
<!—-><!—->212 E Ohio St <!—-><!—->
<!—-> <!—->Chicago <!—-> <!—->IL <!—-> <!—->60611 <!—-><!—-> <!—-> <!—->
Cell: 312-520-5758
[email protected]<!—-> <!—->
<!—-> <!—->
Finally, to everyone reading this who does not work in Chicago, I think that you contact any real estate agent you know and work out a similar arrangement. Most real estate agents are in contact with people at the time they decide to have remodeling work done. It could be a great source of new business for you.
Replies
I'll agree with the idea. I have always had a large portion of my work come from RE Agent referrals. The good ones help me to thin the ranks and do the pre-qualifying too. In other words, they are referring the customer to me as well as referring me to the customer.
OTOH, something you should be aware of - there are a lot of contractors who shy away from this potential source of leads because of adverse experiences. Many RE Agents and Realtors are too willing to try to twist a contractor's arm to do minimal work or cover things up just to move a house and collect the commision.
With the current slower market conditions in many places, relationships like you aand I are used to is a likely win/win for both parties when both have integrity though!
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Jason,
I am sure you are a reputable guy---but as Piffen notes----there is another view point.
In my case, I have absolutely no interest in recieving referalls from a realtor---zero, nado, NONE. LOL
I track EVERY lead---where it comes from--how it results.
in almost 20 years I have NEVER had a sale result from a realtor referall. NEVER.
As a roofing contractor I get calls like this every week------- often from a realtor, sometimes from a seller, sometimes from a buyer. Believe me----no one buying or selling a house wants to pay for a new roof--maybe a new kitchen--but not a new roof.
What they want---is a "free inspection"---with a price quote to use as a bargaining chip.---on my tab. LOL
so-ordinarily, when i get a call like this, I politely decline. Usually the folks get a little miffed that I am not eager to drive out and give a free inspection and estimate----that I KNOW will not result in a sale. Occasionally I make an exception---for people I feel a personal or professional courtesy towards-------
Case in point--------this tuesday i got a call from a realtor who sold a house for me last winter----she has a client selling a house now---with roof issues. out of gratitude towards the the realtor i agreed to look at the house.
35 minutes to drive there, 35 minutes to drive back almost 90 minutes inspecting, writing and talking to the homeowner/seller.
house with underside of decking dusted with mold,bathroom exhaust not hooked up to vent--but just pointed at a pod vent, several other pod vents, a ridge vent installed---WITHOUT a hole cut for it, Gable end vents, leaking skylights( bubble)----over 50 roofing nails improperly set and puncturing the new shingles installed 14 months ago-----and over 100 others about to protrude.
seller wants to unload this house and get out of it for the least amount possible------------- they have NO MONEY for me-----------and any association on my part with that roof opens me up to potentially huge liability----what's in it for me????
BTW----typically these calls come with some sense of urgency---that is---the caller wants me to drop what ever I am doing and respond QUICKLY------but again---to what result? hours of my time wasted---and no sale.
Actually---- I want to thank you for bringing this topic up. the realtor I described---has sent 2 people to me like this in the last 9 months or so. I think today i will call her and explain the situation-----any other calls like this will require a $90 service call.
best wishes to you---sorry to vent--but wanted to point out that the scenario you envision isn't as rosy as you might believe
again, Best wishes, Stephen
Realtors need contractors in a couple of other scenarios as well.When a realtor has listed a home for the Seller and a Buyer comes along and the Buyer & Seller agree to price and terms, the house "goes under contract". Closing is scheduled for 30 to 60 days.The Buyer then has an inspection the inspector finds issues and problems with every room in the house. The Buyer demands the Seller provide repairs such as:1. Paint bare wood on the exterior
2. Fix leaky faucets
3. install roof guttering
4. Remove Ivy from brick
5. Add dirt around the foundation for positive drainage
6. Replace garbage disposer or add a romex clamp where the wire enters the disposer.
7. Replace section of driveway next to the garage so that water drains away
8. exhaust fans in bathrooms
9. GFI circuits kitchen and bath
10. water heater pressure relief valve 1" copper downspout
11. Replace leaking water heater pressure relief valve
12. Work on windows which have been painted shut so they will open
13. Replace cracked glass
14. Window screening
15. Replace foggy double paned glass
16. handrails on stairways
17. Sump pump issues
18. trim trees away from the houseThe list goes on and on and many times these repairs need to be completed quickly (within 7 days or so) and it's impossible to find anyone to do the repairs.Sometimes the Buyer demands a new furnace. Or they demand the galvanized plumbing be replaced. Many old houses have electrical panel issues.Maybe the roof is old.The inspector shines a black light on the carpet and finds animal urine. The buyer wants the carpet replaced. This list goes on and on.I think this is an excellent opportunity for a contractor. Many Sellers are in a position where they will "do whatever it takes" to get the house sold.A contractor has a "motivated client" (the seller)Do you realize how motivated a seller is when the property is setting there empty?Realtors call contractors for these repairs and many times the contractor doesn't even return the phone call.I'm just thinking out loud but maybe a contractor could receive a faxed list of the repairs needed, and if necessary, have the realtor drive to the house and take some picture and email them, and the contractor gives a bid without even driving to the home and therefore not wasting time driving across town and does not waste a lot of time putting together the bid.^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
Mr FIX.. it sounds like you have been working on the same business plan that I have. That list that you made is so typical and that situation is so in need of a service, it is a great opportunity.. I have invested a lot of time in it already. I only need to talk to some more realtors, the logistics of securing the referals from the realtors. It gets a little complicated to avoid conflicts or the appearences of conflicts of interest...arthurhttp://www.thesmallbuildingcompany.com
Have you had any luck doing these kinds of jobs?
I think you could charge a premium price.
What about bidding the job over the phone?
Do you really need to go look at the job to do any of those things on the list?
Add an additional amount to cover any thing you might overlook.
Plus you would want to get paid that day you finish.
I think you would walk into a realtor's office and everyone would want your business card.
How many houses were inspected today and repairs are being demanded and there is no one available to do the work?
I think there are numerous^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
Nice scenario, but not exactly right in many (most?) cases.
When the CA real estate market was absolutely bananas, the sellers couldn't have cared less about the buyers wants - they probably had 2-3 better offers in place already. The buyers also weren't about to get too demanding since they wanted the house and didn't want to do anything to queer the deal. The only things that got fixed were the Section 1 items and minimum effort went into many of those, as well.
At the peak, section 1 items didn't get fixed, either, they just got noted. Everything on the market was listed for sale "AS IS".I wasn't aware until a recent post here that section 1 items were required by CA law to be fixed. Just as well, because I wouldn't have gotten my house if I had known that were the case (I'm just anal enough to insist on following the law). As it was, I made a pest of myself insisting that the water heater get strapped and all of the smoke detectors checked to be sure they worked.Rebeccah
What about homes which involve FHA financing and repairs required by the FHA appraiser?
I'm just saying I think there are some opportunities here.^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
I will back up Mrfixit here. I just hope everybody else never gets with his program. You naysayers are right, Realtors are horrible for business, you should tell them to never call you again that you already know they are full of it.PS.
Please tell them to call me so I can tell them off too.
Good point and funny too handyman.
It's probably never a good idea to rule out referrals.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
The average real estate repair that has to be made for settlement is under 2 weeks. If I ever get to the point of not knowing what I'm doing 2 weeks from now I'd consider it.
When I started out, I did it. Too much last minute get'er done no mater the cost then a hell no I ain't paying that. Best one I got screwed on was I'd be paid by the settlement company promise, from the listing agent... homeowner moved to the other coast and their employer took over payments. There was no settlement but a home inspection and repairs had to be made before they took over the note. I have lots of stories on this subject and would like to have the dollars I lost, but what's the point... On that one I called every agent I worked for and said I'm done... never again, and don't regret it one bit.
To original poster... If you want to market real estate that needs a fixup, sell it to a contractor. I don't know how many houses you plan to sell this way or how many contractors you'd like to partner up with but remodeling takes time. So you either need alot of contractors or are not looking to sell many houses under this plan.
I have something else I have been kicking around.Realtors and homeowners would like to have a contractor come in and look at the job and give an opinion and a bid.but they also need someone who can think on their feet and make other recommendations if he (contractor) sees something else that needs to be done or something that might really change and improve the home.By that I mean as the contractor walks through the house to look at the kitchen, he sees the "whole picture" and makes recommendations as to things the homeowner might want to think about doing.Sometimes, not always, these even RAISE THE VALUE of the home. Think of that, the contractor does the job, pockets the money, and helps the homeowner by increasing what his home is worth.This is called up selling.^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
This is called staging. A knowledgeable person evaluates a property, makes recomendations to maximize the selling price and has the improvements made. I do this often and I also do it after a property has a contract on it. The seller is so much ahead by doing all improvements before listing the property. A common scenario is as follows. House is closing in two weeks after having been on the market for months, home inspector has declared that a new roof must be installed, all rotten siding, all rotten facia ect must be replaced in addition to all that crap you had in your first post on this subject. So what just happened is that homeowner just took forever selling the house, homebuyer paid a substandard price and before it is over, all repairs had to be made anyway. The other way it happens, they send me out to check it out with the seller or the realtor decided what needs doing. I complete the work--usually all cosmetics and obvious defects, clean the carpets--a ready to move in house if you will. The thing usually sells within two weeks and people want the house, commenting on the meticulousness of the owner, what good maintainance they say. I parrot the same old stuff that every article on selling your house says. It is basic advise but it works. You sound like you do the same kind of jobs that I do.
Edited 1/5/2007 10:25 pm ET by handymanvan
I started in real estate investing (flipping) in 1995. I did all the work and my partner was the money guy. This was a second job for me while I was a teacher.
I got my real estate license in 2002.
So I've watched and tried to see how other people are doing things.
I've noticed realtors try to do what you're describing - that is have a contractor they work with on a regular basis. Someone they can pick up the phone and call on a moments notice.
Seems like there's always a "falling out" at some point, probably over money. Right?
Have you watched the "Flip this house" shows?
A lot of them are using a different contractor on each house.
They're running around trying to find someone to do the work.
They can't keep the same contractor for more than one job.
I've even seen them on the show driving through the home depot parking lot, begging for a contractor to come work on their house because their deadline for the open house is Sunday and they've got to remodel the kitchen and bathroom in two days (or something crazy).
Some of the realtors and investors have turned to hiring a carpenter and he is on their payroll. Have you ever tried that?
Good Luck!^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
jason... i read all the posts to this point.. you sound like a one-in-100 realtor to me
we could probably work something out, but it's doubtful
my experience with realtors has not been pleasant.. the most successful ones are very sales oriented and they will stretch the issues to make the sale
they are very similar to the "flip-this-house "people.. it's all about cosmetics and cutting corners and getting the lowest priced bid... then trying to negotiate it down from there
to me there is only one good referral source... the people i have worked for that liked our work
they make the referrals unsolicited
the worst referrals are the ones we've wroked for thta did not like our work
the biggest time wasters are USUALLY the realtors... they and their SELLORS are not properly motivated for me
sometimes i will get a call from a buyer who tells me they got my name from a realtor... it was usually because the realtor gave an honest opinion along the lines of
"trust... good work.. no quibbeling over price "
referrals from people who make money off the deal are usually tainted... if there is nothing in it for them but their reputation, then it's ok.... as soon as it affects the deal, they shade their judgement.. and i find this to be true of realtors, lawyers , and architects... not every one .. but just enough to make me learyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Excellent advice about staging.
Here in Wichita there are some realtors who've taken classes on "staging" and I've seen some of their homes.
I called one realtor and told her I thought she did a really good job staging the house.
Her theory was that vacant houses don't show well and she had staged the living room and master bedroom and the rest of the house was empty.
It made a big difference and a big improvement.
One of the things she did was to use additional lighting in the rooms which were staged.
She used table lamps and floor lamps and it worked really well.
I think she even had some statistics about staged homes selling much more quickly, for a higher price, etc.
Thanks again for the info!
^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
Realtors and homeowners would like to have a contractor come in and look at the job and give an opinion and a bid.
This is another idea that sounds good, but may not really be so great. It will depend on how much "free time" you're prepared to invest. Last year, I met with buyers and their agents at two properties to talk about things that they would like to do and what it could cost. I spent about half of a day on each one and nothing ever came of it.
On one house, there was a major issue with a firewall between the house and garage. The seller had built a "bump out" into the garage to create a pantry in the dining area. When I told the buyer that it may have to be rebuilt to ensure the fire rating, they lost interest.
The other house would have needed a major remodel to make it into what the buyers wanted. They had a great vision of the finished house, but no idea of what was involved to get there. They were stretching to even buy the place and the remodeling was far beyond their budget.
I have done alot for home sales with no deadline that tight and the sale sailed through.The process is that I write a contract withthe seller to do the work for $____X
seller and buyer have a sales contract that sets aside said sum plus a contingency amount in an escrow account, from which I am paid up[on inspection by a third party they select, usually the buyers financer or RE agent.
The sale happens, the seller gets their money, I do the work in an appropriate time frame to meet my schedule, I get paid, the excess funds goes back to the seller.
Everybody is happy.
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Jason
I spent two years doing over a home for one of the top R.E. salespersons in my area. She kept telling me how much work she was going to get me. She even had me look at some questionable problems with homes she had listed in order to put possible buyers at ease. At first it looked good. I even gave her a break on the cost of her remodel work (mistake #1). It's been 2 years since I finished. Her family LOVES what they got. Me I still havent received 1 F'n lead! Not ONE.
Over the last two years I have mailed cover letters with axtra business cards to ALL the R.E. offices in my area on several occasions and have received 0 replies! Not even a follow up on their part.
You may want to check with the Lumber Yard Salesmen in your area maybe they can help. It would be nice if there were others out there like you.All Things Wood!
Stephen Prunier Carpentry
I never knew of any Section 1 items that went untouched, but saw lots of other stuff get blown off - lol
I understand what you mean. I did not take the time to explain in my first where my idea came from. Years ago, prior to being a real estate agent I was on your side of the fence, I was estimator/salesmen for a window and door replacement company. Just like you I did not start out excited to work with real estate agents. It seemed like most of the calls I would get from them, they just wanted me to come out and do a free estimate to replace the windows so they could use that as a bargaining chip. Half the time, they did not even want to give me the courtesy of meeting me for the appointment. They would try to get me to drive by, do an estimate from the side walk, and fax them the bid. My solution – I started telling them on the phone that I charged a $200 non refundable estimation fee. Of course, if the opted to do the work I would apply to it to the cost of the job. Now I must admit, I started this policy just before I switched careers so I did not enough time to prove it worked. Sure many agents will choose go to someone else who will do the estimate for free. GREAT. You did not have to waste your time then. But if you have developed a relationship with a professional agent they will appreciate your position and respect your time, highly recommend you. Keep in mind, just like in the contracting world, there are some professional contractors, but there are also many dirt bags. This definitely applies to real estate agents too. The key here is to have a relationship with the agent.
In addition, what kind of lead would you prefer? A call from the phone book or a referral from your friend who has a cousin that needs a new roof. Well, become friends with you real estate agent. My first post was too narrow. It was focused just on the work needed for a specific sale. There is a lot of contracting work that needs to be done to homes that are not going on the market. After all, an old roof is still an old roof that needs to be replaced. Good real estate agents rely almost exclusively on referrals to stay in business. Often times they do this by staying in regular contact with their past clients and networking everywhere they go. You can train your real estate agent to promote your company every time they hear some one say the word “roofâ€. How, do they same for them. Everybody will need to buy or sell a house some time including you. You and everyone you know are potential clients to a real estate agent. If you have a relationship with an agent in which you are always on the look out for an opportunity to refer them they will become your best and most loyal sales force. If you think real estate agents are pushy now, just watch how aggressively they will work to market your services if they are getting referrals from you. At the end of the day, a good relationship with the right agent can generate significant sales for your company and it won’t cost you anything.
Jason----you expressed your self well----don't worry about that.
additionally, you and Mr.fixitusa ARE technically right--------there IS an opportunity.
where we differ is-------- I don't see it as a GOOD opportunity------and to pursue the opportunity a contractor would have to neglect other, BETTER opportunities.
Let's look at mr.fixitusa 's well written post #83632.4
typically, a small contractor with the trade and business skills to handle that varied list-----can make more $$$, with less hassle and stress--- doing other things------and he is probably already doing other things.
in my case------ typically my customers have waited patiently weeks or even months for me to get to their project. I can't very well leave them hanging-----to run off and attend to a "real estate punch list"--------especially since I can virtually gaurantee that the real estate punch list will pay at a MUCH lower rate than I am getting with the current line up of work.
some one else mentioned that my newly instated $90 service call to even look at this work won't discourage people
Mr.fixit, I believe also mentioned FHA required work. Let me combine the 2--------------
I only get calls about FHA roof certs a few times a year now------------- But I used to get several a week
the way it works---------- inspector sees the roof is in sad shape--he requires a cert.---- contractor who certifies the roof is "on the hook "for that roof 2 or 3 years( depending on the particular form he has to sign for FHA)--- if it leaks within that 2-3 year period---the contractor has to fix it----at HIS COST.---- keep in mind that this is a roof SO BAD--that the FHA inspector could tell it was bad from the ground.
when i used to get these calls--- i would tell the caller that I would inspect the roof for $100. that inspection$$$ was non-refundable and did not gaurantee a CERT. If the roof passed my inspection--- I would issue a CERT and the total cost would be $175
no takers( well actually one----and I waived the fee for THEM---but that's another story)-----at those rates--it was STILL a bad deal for me------ assuming responsibility for 3 years for a roof---in exchange for $175??????---- it was really stupid of me----and I am now relieved there were no takers.
so--- my new $90 charge might be on the low side-------- i should probably make it $150 just to look at the situation----------but actually---since the buyer,the seller AND the realtors intent is to pay NO MONEY-------- I think even the $90 will screen 'em out.
I could also tell you in cosiderable detail about a young contractor I sub OUT some work to. He is still in his 20's, considerably younger than me-----and a really good guy. Extremely hardworking---carries liability insurance and all his men are covered by Workers Comp( not a given in this business)--- he loves to do my projects because I provide all the materials---down to the last nail----and I pay him in full before he leaves the project the last day. He likes My projects so well, he will let HIS wait in order to do mine. I have known him several years--and early on he mentioned that he did a steady business with a few realtors---------------
early in December he did a roof for me---and metioned he is " letting the realtors go" He is tired of waiting 30-60-90 days or more for his money------and he is tired of listening to the constant whine about the cost of his services-----and he notes that he often has 4-5 roofs invested in these realtors----with absolutely NO idea when he will finally be paid( it's always---"we will send that check out friday"----and that drags on for months)
when i first started working with this sub--- i hinted to him that would be the case---- now he KNOWS.
BTW-----sub is a really good guy-----------his volume of business totally eclipses my own. when he actually gets a handle on his numbers--he is going to do VERY well for himself---- not bad for a "nother dumb roofer" LOL
sorry to ramble--and best wishes all,
Stephen
Edited 1/6/2007 7:53 am ET by Hazlett
i couldn't agree more, "to persue the realltor opportunity a contractor would have to neglect other better opportunities."
i got the same feeling from shelternerds very polished "company statement"/business plan where he describes company strengths and weaknesses, and how they don't like "anybody else " to work on their copper roofs or countertops, but can't find the time to do the punch list jobs so they have entered into agreement with so and so to do the work, all in an effort to provide better service to the customer. it sounds great, but me thinks it is to some degree a sales tool that shelternerd uses with a great deal of skill! he is not dumb, and in blunt terms he is taking the better opportunities, while handing someone else the crumbs while at the same time pointing this out in a statement to prospective customers as building a strength out of a weakness. in reading that statement i was thinking to myself, wow, what a great company to work for, they do all this stuff for the employees so that they have a waiting list of employees to go to work for them should the need arise, thereby getting the "best" employees and providing the "best" work to the customer. i would really like to go to work for this company, i consider myself one of the best, but wait a minute, the owner still makes a greater profit than me, and reserves the right to fire my a$$ if i backslide and become less than the best despite years of service plus i just might be better than the owner? if i am really the "best" i will hone my skills by working several different crafts and go into business for myself! i can be a better contractor and business owner than him, i am the best but how do we keep score? how can we measure the degree of quality? let me see....$$$.. i can't think of a way?
sorry for the rant, and i don't mean to put down shelternerd in any way. i think his company (or one operated like that) is the best to work for as an employee. its just that i would rather be the owner, or be part of an employee owned company and hopefully after reading my critique shelternerds re-write of the company policy (which is done each year) will be even more polished this year. maybe he will even add a paragraph on helping his employees become his competitors to even further improve his company. i can't wait for the spin on that one. who knows, after he makes a certain amount of money he will spend the rest of his life volunteering for habitat for humanity, a spiel like that would certainly get my vote for miss america....
Finally to the point, many contractors will tell customers that it seems like at first the work progresses fast, only to slow down at the final stages. 90% of the work is done in the first 10% of the time, while the final 10% of the work takes 90% of the time to finish, and the most effort and quality from the craftsmen doing the work, funny how when it seems like its going slow the last thing you should do is try to rush it, it just takes longer to get it right.
that punch out work which takes the longest, and requires the most skill, patience, and effort is the job the realtor is offering, without the gravy job of framing and rough plumbing and rough electrical. like hazlet said there are better opportunities out there.
Either you guys have a sorry bunch of realtors up there or you just don't know how to manage them. When a house is under a contract pending doing th ework, the cash is stacked up and ready to flow. You just need to be standing at the bottom of the spigot with your pocketbook open!It's a lot like insurance work. You gotta work the contract and the adjustor and the customer all right.Now for me - the jobs I hate are government jobs!!!You like'm da stories, Steve. here's one for you relative to pending home sales...Mt L calls me. I've done a small bit of work for him. He owns wo homes and needs to sell the one to have tjhe cash to improve the other one. The deck is rotting off the sell property so he says he wants to do the minimum tp hold it together so he can get the cash out and then we can talk about spending a quarter million on the new place.I go look and call him back. This is an ethical choice that is clear to me. A small cheap pathcemup with a few sisters is going to leave a deck that somebody will fall through and get hurt on the next year. He will have told them that Piffin did the work so they can trust on my good name that it is right and there I stand in the cross hairs.So having explained to him what condition it is in, I offer to fix the deck MY WAY and no interest in anything else. I am not interested in assuming liability nor damage to reputation by putting my name on that deck. with a cheap repair.sohe says go ahead on your own judgement, just don't waste money.Later, he tells me that the way I handled that was impressive enough to know that I am the only contractor he has ever dealt with who haad enough integrity to tell him no and turn down such a big job potential. I've done over a half million dollars worth for him since then, and know that the next time he needs work done, I'll be at the top of his list.Thje point of all this - there are as many sleazy contractors as there are slewazy RE agents - and the other way around, There are as many trustworthy RE people as there are contractors. We all swim in the same water. Some schoal together and some are sharks. Some bottom feeders and some sailfish.
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This has been my favorite discussion on Breaktime. I am one of the strong supporters of realtors. One that I met after first getting started has been responsible for a large portion of my business, not just her work but all of the people she has refered me to that have further refered me on down the line. When I show up they feel blessed to have me because of the way she has blown me up to them. I also want to say that the two worst people that I have worked for were realtors as well. Upon meeting one, she declared that I would not have time to work for anyone else because her firm would keep me busy and jealously guard my services. She was the absoute worst customer I have had, I like people that DON"T PAY me more than her. No matter what I did or what quoted price I gave her, it was always three times too high--it was HOGWASH, I did one small job for her out of pity(she was desprate) it was here own house being sold. She told me how to do it, (wrongly)how long it should take(wrong) and when I was done that she loved me(bull--it) but my prices are too high and I must be slow or something and she would never be able to use me again. Another realtor just used up 8 hours of my time, makeing a quote, meeting his adjuster, assuring me that I was doing his job and then had crackheads do all of his work--horrible quality. Both of these make very little money in realestate, very few customers will buy from them and no repete business. The one I reference to begin with keeps houses moving as does the people she refered me to that also sell quite a few houses. The lists that I work off of for them is usually from the Home Inspection Report, but they have started getting me to go fix the obvious, value lowering repairs before the house hits the market.
A word of caution--if you can do all of the small things that have been mentioned in this thread--virtually all home repairs, you should do quiet well financially. It is rare that someone can or will do these things so it is a niche market and you can name your price and virtually get it.
Would this work for you in your real estate market:*find homes that have sat on the market for six months or a year or more and "they're just not selling"*go walk through some of these houses and do an evaluation*call the listing agent and tell them what you could do to make the house sell and how much you would charge for your service.This would be easier for you to do if you had a real estate license and you could walk through the house as a realtor.^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
Better yet gaurentee your suggestions will sell the house in a set period of time for a set price or the repairs are free.
Whaddaya think?
LoL^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
I am taking it one step farther, I am in the process of purchasing a house that is thirty years old, needs all cosmetic work--paint, carpet flooring ect that I will do well on. I have wholesale labor to get the job done and good realtors that will sell it for me when done. These types of deals are all over--houses that will not move because they are butt ugly and the people that live there do NOT stage the house for a sale. People like you and I know what it takes to make them desireable, if only we get them at a price that makes it work. The neighborhood this one is in is one that I do a fair amount of work in and is fairly popular so I was comfortable doing it. Did I see that you do or did do this sort of thing often?
Sounds like you've got a house lined up with some potential.
I wish I could find one.
I've said this before on here, but when a fixer upper goes on the market here in wichita it's like a we're a bunch of rats and we're all after one small piece of cheese and the end result is the guy who does buy it ends up paying too much.
He usually pays about 10,000 more than what I would have paid.
I REALLY scratch my head when I see a house I've been interested in and and I watch it sell for $20 K more than what I'd have paid.
I wonder if an investor bought it and if he did, how's he going to make anything.
One of the things I referred to earlier, is walking through a house and making suggestions to people about improvements to their home.
This can be done with any homeowner when the contractor is walking through the house to look at something, or
this can be done with a realtor or with someone who is selling their home and they need help or advice.
People appreciate an informed opinion from (1) contractor (2) realtor (3) interior decorator etc etc etc just to give them some ideas on their home.
I've got some pictures of my current project.
I've opened up the kitchen in my mother's house and this has really made a significant change and improvement to this house.
This is a 150,000 house and these improvements add a lot of value to this home.
I think there's a market for doing this kind of thing and the point I'm trying to make is there are people out there wanting to make improvements, they've got the money and can write a check to pay the bill, but they don't have a clue as to what needs to be done.
They need someone to offer suggestions and walk them through the process.
^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
Piffen,
thanks for the story.
unfortuneately---we are comparing apples with oranges here.
your story is one where you have a readily identifiable customer----who you have a previous track record with----that's a comparatively EASY sale.
typically however-------- realtor referall involves 3 people---none of whom know me--or really WANT to be my customer
"seller"------actually currently owns the house-----but doesn't want to put any more money into it.
" buyer"----this is a misnomer---the buyer may never actually buy the house---in reality they are just a looker----and they CERTAINLEY don't want to pay for the roof
"realtor"-------- they don't own the house, are never gonna own the house----and their primary motivation is to sell the house ---so they have been downplaying all the problems and costs associated with this all along.
WHO is my customer?
the house is NOT under any contract
I found out a long time ago--- my BEST customers were people who have lived in their homes for a long time--and intend to REMAIN in their homes a long time. they know what particular problems their home has--they have probably been burned in the past with" quick fix" attempts---and they are NOW eager to look at things with a long term view in mind. Even more importantly--right or wrong---they want STEPHEN specifically.---there is some personal contact-------I have done a neighbors roof---or a relatives, or a co-workers---or coached their kids---or my wife taught their kids, or we belong to the same church, or we went to the same highschool----some small extra "Stephen" factor that additionally reassures the customer that I am the best guy to solve their problem and that they will not just be "another job"
with the "realtor/seller/buyer" scenario--none of that can come into play----only how quick can you do it---and for how LITTLE.--- my typical customers want ME and are prepared to wait for ME---- the "realtor/seller/buyer" ???? anyone will do
so for me to pursue that "realtor opportunity"-- ---HERE--------i would need to give up my strengths, negate what makes Stephen---" stephen"---and become a commodity no different to the process than a clerk at the title agency. I can't see how to profit from that----at least not at the expense of neglecting other, better opportunities.
remember--I track everything---- I know the resolution of EVERY call last year---and the year before---and the year before etc. I know if a call resulted in a sale---i know WHERE the caller heard of me etc.---and i know in 20 years I have ZERO sales through realtors.
HOWEVER
in YOUR situation---things would clearly be different. Island. wealthy owners.--Vacation homes-------Realtor becomes a valued contact and conduit between You---and the customer----it's a different ball game.
I also respect what it looks like Mr.fixitusa is interested in---it's a fifferent ball game as well-----looks like he is talking about a business that specifically and primarily can service a realtor driven market---that's cool!----It just doesn't fit in with my experience, track record, personality or interest.
best wishes all,
Stephen
Haz, your explanations clearly show how diverse the remodeling market is. No solution will work for everyone, that's clear. Each person has to assess his market and act intelligently, according to the circumstances. Fortunatly, guys like me can learn a lot from guys like you, as well as Piffin and MrFixit, who clearly have different situations.
Thanks for posting.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I know the storys are different circumstances, but my point is about managing customers and managing expectations. To some degree this is what you do when you assign a fee for inspecting and estimating. They learn not to expect valueable service for free.We each work our nichebut I did a lot of realtor work out west too. There are good ones and bad ones. No need to clump them all together.I guess poart of what I was responding to is your earlier comment that you diosliked this thread because you felt like somebody was telling you how to do your business. I don't know if you got that from me, but I'm sorry iof that is so. I truely entered this discussion in spirit of pointing outr the pros and conms of realtor relationships. There is good and bad and both need to be managed, so I don't think you ought to take any of this personally.You do an excellent job of managaing your business. I wish I'd had your business and planning skills when I was 25YO. I'd be wealthy and retired by now.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
paul... being wealthy & retired is overratedMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
don't you mean wealthy and retar......oh, never mind......lol
Bob
i prefer healthy & working at something you like
but it might just be that retirement is not in the cards...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"...wealthy & retired is overrated"
Which one would you like to donate to those of us in need Mike?
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
and you know because?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
lemme see..... wealthy.... compared to who ?..
retired ? .... nah....
gotta be overrated, what other conclusion could i come to ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
In my area I know 75% of the Realtors-I was also licensed as an associate broker for 5 years,and they are some of my best referral sources.
I mainly do just slate and copper work,so when a house comes on the market in my area I already know the condition of the roof and what it will need to bring it up to speed.
When either the broker or their client calls they know I'm the specialist in this area so they're happy to have me make suggestions and 90% of the time it results in a nice job. Just today a Broker called about their own office property-they had just relocated,put in a fancy phone and networking system and found a major leak in the attic just above all this new gear.
I gave an estimate by phone at 11:30,e-mailed one of my Shutterfly albums when I got home after lunch,will start the job in the morning,be done wed. nite.The materials will cost about $140 and the quote was for $2268.
When Realtors call it's usually a very nice opportunity for me.
After re-reading the thread I guess the impetus was on fixer-uppers,not upper end homes that a new owner wished to restore to it's former glory.
None the less I think Realtors can be an asset for referrals-at least in my area.
Here are some shots of the job I spoke of yesterday-Realtors new office building with huge leakage issues.
What are all those metal loops sticking out of the roof for?
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
i'd guess snow guards
but Walter, were the valleys flashed wrong to begin with ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
That valley technique with slate of "closed" valleys-step flashings of zinc woven with each course of slate-was quite prevalent in our area during that era.
It's not really wrong-just that the zinc has been worn thru for some time now and leaking badly. The prior owners had underutilized the building and the leakage was not high on their list. When this Broker bought the building and discovered a bad leak in the attic dripping down onto their phone/computer gear room she called me up quickly.
I'll be leaving a tapered exposed metal valley with slate relaid-actually leaving extra slates for future roof repair work by using these "open" valleys.
I'll take some closer shots today of the zinc flashings that were there.
Here's a different roof ,same technique.http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhqzcI
Mike,
Here's a shot of the zinc flashings that were in the "closed" valley.
Silicone had been used where the slates met to try and keep some of the water out.
Blue,
Yes Mike is correct-these are "pigtails" of iron wire put into the roof to retain the snow in place,letting it melt off slowly instead of crashing off the roof.
This building was built in 1912 as a school and those "pigtails" are starting to rust away.
There are sections of the building that I'll suggest putting up new better snow guards to keep cars and pedestrians safe.
Walter
I just tuned in and caught this thread. Great thread, right up my alley. Real estate work is a gold mine if you can manage it properly.When a contract is made on a house the buyers usually have 30 days to close. They always wait at least a week to call the home inspector and he is booked a week to ten days out. I get a call on Monday that the house is closing on Friday and can I get the repairs done before the closing. No problem but I will have to juggle some things around, is my reply.
The agent who calls is usually desperate and I love working for desperate people! They don't want anything to screw up their closing. We charge a comfortable rate;-), get the job done on time and come out the hero. The houses 75% of the time are empty, we get paid from the closing attorney, we NEVER and I mean NEVER competitive bid, and we have a loyal group of agents who see what a valuable resource we are. I always have a talk with a new agent and tell them not to use me for a free estimate when all they need a number to negotiate a contact by. I will charge for estimates in those cases. My regular agents know I don't make money estimating and I will drop them if they aren't up front with me. I do have a black list and will not work with any one on the list.
A good percentage of the buyers are from out of state, as we live in a resort area, and we are their only contact when they move in. I do not advertise except for rack cards placed in Agents offices and business cards. I do not put my phone number on my truck as I don't want people who are looking for the lowest bidder calling me. I want desperate people who trust me calling.
The market recently has slowed and we are working mostly on renovating the homes we previously fixed up prior to sale.
It was an ego adjustment for me to focus on small repairs when so many McMansions are being built by less talented builders than I. I had an agent tell me repeatedly years ago to only do real estate work. I got burned out after building a restaurant five years ago and it's been real estate work ever since. In and out in less than a week on most jobs and a MUCH higher profit margin.Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
A very interesting take on this thread Holy Hammer. Thanks ever so much for your insight and experience.
I really like your attitude.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
many times because of my integrity and quality standards i have been punished. there have been times (not as many) when i have been rewarded.
i admit to waffling back and forth at times, i have a family to feed.
most of the time because i was "going to slow" i would be laid off from hourly. framing jobs and not get the gravy of hourly pick up and punch list.
a few times because of the quality of work on piece framing i have been the last to be let go as the foreman wants the pick up and punch guy to do solid work.
it seems to me that more of the contractors (major urban area) want speed from their employees and the money it brings them in the short term. i did what i had to do to keep the wolf away, but i always tried to put the most quality i could into the job and keep the pace. brutal life being a production framer, brutal.
its good to read about it going the "right" way
Actually---- I want to thank you for bringing this topic up. the realtor I described---has sent 2 people to me like this in the last 9 months or so. I think today i will call her and explain the situation-----any other calls like this will require a $90 service call.
The ironic part of this story Stephen, is that the realtor probably thinks they are doing you a favor by "referring" you to their clients with the roof problems LOL!
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
that tag line rings a bell, which bring two stories to mind
one is a joke about quasimoto being forced to take an apprentice he didn't want, after dispatching him from the belltower with a little shove he denied ever seeing the young man splattered on the ground below with the comment "he don't ring a bell"
the other is one i will actually take credit for, and while i am sure i was not the one to coin the phrase i did come up with it on my own!
"you don't know what your limits are untill you exceed them, and just because i'm sliding doesn't mean i'm out of control!" this comment was actually meant to pacify my wife when a passenger. it didn't work.
$90 is cheap for what you are doing. You might not deter them with that number.
Very good post .
Tim
i too do roofing my odds of getting a job from a realtor are about one in a thousand, last week i went against my better judgement and got burned, A free estimate to bargin with, They love to call me and get paperwork, which i will not give anymore then get the bar guys or there guys to do the job cheaper, One time years ago i went to do 2 estimates for a big real estate company, I told them 75 bucks, When i went the owner told me tough he was not gonna pay and laughed, Hes the head guy on the real estate ethics board, Being young i did not pursue it but i have a list
Check with the local chapter of NAHB (National Asociation of Homebuilders). NAHB has divisions for remodelers who take on whole projects and associates who perform specific tasks.
Google: NAHB Chicago
Thanks for the response. I just looked it up and their are a handful in my area.
A realtor who doesn't want a 3% commission on the entire cost of the project just because my name crossed their lips? Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.
The thing that gets me is a realtor will sell someone a piece of vacant land and collect a commission on that. Then they will refer me to the person. They want me to include 3% for them in the bid but they sure don't want me to tell the customer it's in there. What's ethical about that??!!
Then if I refer them to someone I know who wants to sell do I get a commission? No, but at least they send me a reminder when it's time to set the clocks back!
Wow, it sounds like you know a bunch of dirt bag and dumb Realtors. I do business almost exclusively by referral. Referrals are a currency for me. The last think I want to do is take a 3% cut on a $5,000 ($150) roofing job because I would much rather help a contractor by referring him business in the hopes he will refer me to his neighbors. As you mentioned, if I get a referral from a contractor to sell his cousins $350K house, my 3% gross commission is $10,500. I will happily refer contractors all day long asking for nothing in return other than referrals. This is just basic networking 101. By the way, I don't know what state you live in but as I licensed agent in both California and Illinois I can tell you that it is against the law for me to pay kick backs for referrals.
Just think about the people that you already refer. If you are a drywall guy and you have a buddy who is a painter that you refer; why do you do it? Hopefully it is because you want to assure that your client gets a good painter and its a chance for you to help your buddy get work. Also, he will likely send you work down the road. It is just good business.
My point here is that referrals don't cost money, and they should not (if a contractor or a Realtor needs to pay for business, then they are doing something wrong). A good Real estate agent is just one more "trade" that can refer. If you have a relationship with a good agent it can benefit both of you. Likewise, if either the contractor or the agent is a jerk, well....
Jason,
i must say-i am enjoying this thread more and more-----the further we get into things---the better it illustrates respective points :)
when you mentioned a $5000 roof------that illustrates a problem.when i pull out my most recent proposals
the proposal referred by the realtor--------my suggested work$2585.---time invested in that proposal almost 3 hours
the proposal immediately before THAT one? $29,668.------46 square, w valley flashing, miles of fascia to replace( pre-primed all 6 sides and pre-painted), copper pans in window wells,5" 1/2 round gutter-----high, steep( not walkable), "cut-up" etc.time invested in that proposal--under 4 hours
proposal immediately before that one? $8460--simple, straightforward 22 square.-- time invested in proposal--- WELL under an hour including drive time
I have to dig back pretty far to find a roof we have done for $5,000----and it's gonna be a pretty small one
so where do we want to invest our efforts?--it's not really in servicing the realtors referalls. 3 hours gone----and i know statistically I have ZERO chance in those 3 hours resulting in a sale.
also---you mentioned selling a $350,000 house?--it's the same thing for you!--- if you have the skills to play in that sales market----you aren't likely to be interested in a job selling shoes!!!!! selling shoes is "an opportunity"--------- but pursuing that opportunity means passing up MUCH better opportunities.
as far as networking goes------i am very,Very,VERY carefull whose name i give out. I can actually only think of 2 tradesmen i am willing to referr.( 1 electrician and one landscaper)------the potential downside to a referall for me is MUCH greater than a potential upside.-- if I referr somebody--and they are even slightly less than wonderfullness personified----" I" end up looking like a schmuck.---on the other hand--If i referr someone and they perform teriffically----well that's what people EXPECTED to happen anyhow---so there is no net gain to me anyhow,LOL
little benefit to me in a network of tradesman---------" we" all know plenty of other tradesman.--- Much better network for me--is a network of teachers, nurses, accountants, pharmacists,doctors, lawyers, computer professionals--- i have actually just added a theater director!!!!!!----the sort of network where I am the ONLY tradesman---THAt network generates solid gold referalls.
Best wishes,
Stephen
---------" we" all know plenty of other tradesman.--- Much better network for me--is a network of teachers, nurses, accountants, pharmacists,doctors, lawyers, computer professionals--- i have actually just added a theater director!!!!!!----the sort of network where I am the ONLY tradesman---THAt network generates solid gold referalls.
Words of wisdom!
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Stephen-
Thank you for once again illustrating a common sense approach to a business problem based on your own experience. It seems that a lot of people have ideas about what should be a good for your business. What they don't seem to realize is that we have tried these ideas and they don't work for us. That doesn't mean that they can't work for anybody, just that they don't always work.
I have another perspective on referrals to other tradesmen. We are often asked to do work that we either do not have time to do or that we simply don't want to do. Like roofing! In fact we are constantly looking for competent tradesmen to use as subs.
Usually the people asking for the referrals are old customers or personal friends. In either case we want to help them. Since we use subs for a portion of our work, the referrals are often to our subs. When the work is for a competitor, we almost always refer to a competitor who keeps high standards of work and ethics. This is of course impossible to know for sure but in a small town this type of information gets around.
Does this help our business? I don't know but I know that I have confidence in anyone who is not afraid of their competition. It simply raises my assessment of their competence.
"realtor who doesn't want a 3% commission on the entire cost of the project just because my name crossed their lips? Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it."Will you believe it if I write it and you read it?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've done work for people selling their house. Taped a bisiness card to the inside cabinet door. Half the new owners call me.
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much.