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Here is a cherry stairway that I am working on presently. It consists of a 4 winders turning 135 degrees, then it will have a straight section of ten treads which I will start on tomorrow. The inside skirt radius is 10.5 inches. I milled down the cherry to 1/8 inch and then cut staves to build it up to 1.25 inches thick. I will update this stairway from time to time.
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partially built in forms
*more shots
*beauty Stan- I hope I someday have the client that wants one...
*Stan, do you glue up your own treads?
*Armin: Sometimes I glue up my treads, and sometimes I have my supplier glue them up. It depends on how much time I have. This particular stairs I had the treads glued up for me.
*Stan, when you start these do you know how long it will take you. I,ve been having a hard time lately estimating my time and was just wondering how other people do it. Not to beat a dead horse, that video I was talkin about doesn't have to be for promotional use for new business. I bet your clients would get a kick out of seeing their stairs built. Think about Vocational schools that could use it. Just an Idea I'll leave it at that, promise.
*Dale: If it is a standard 90 degree curved stairs, I pretty much can tell from experience how long it will take me. I always bid in plenty of extra time and materials so as to keep the project interesting and profitable. The more uncertain I am of a different type of stairway, the more cautious I bid it. I honestly try to estimate within reason how many days a stairs will take me. I always add in at least a week extra and double the cost of the stairparts. I have so far always ended up coming out okay. I had to do an elliptical stairs a few years ago. I had never built one, so I cautiously bid quite a bit more. After I had finished it, about the only difference was a little more layout time, and each tread had to have its own pattern made. But again, I was cautious at first and I feel this has kept me out of serious trouble.
*This is the straight section that attaches to the top of the winder section. I had all the parts cut out in kit form and assembled it all in 5 hours today. This picture is how I start a straight section on my workbench
*stringers
*top and bottom treads plumbed both ways
*mitered stringer installed and aligned straight
*another view of mitered stringer attached
*treads and risers going in
*another view of treads and risers
*wedges securing treads and risers
*stair section completed except for scotia trim
*Wow Stan!- you did it again. You never cease to amaze me. Those dato'd out treads and risers must be fun. What kind of birdhouse hammer is that in 22of25?
*Bob: Thanks; Are you referring to my Paslode impluse gun? Or the Stanley hammer, ha
*I'm impressed, you are the only person I know besides myself who uses screws and pocket holes in stair construction.Several years ago I built a set of stairs on the edge of the local golf course, it was summer and the door was open. A golfer walked in and looked my job over and commented "You sure use a lot of screws." "Yes" I replied "I always wanted to be a politician and this is as close as I can get to screwing eveything." Well he left in a hurry, later I learned (saw him on the tv news) he was the local congressman.
*Armin: You are also the only other person I know that also uses pocketscrews. I was at a woodshow years ago, and was watching a Kreg pocket screw demonstration. I was amazed, and bought one. That one tool is the most single important tool I have ever bought. It completely transformed my way of making stairways. I pocket screw my risers to the treads, the treads to the stringers, newel posts inside the stringers, and also the tread returns to the treads. On the upper end stairways, I rabbet miter the risers to the stringers and pocket screw them as well. One of my trademarks is having no external fasteners when I also pocket srrew the mitered risers. Otherwise, I give in and do nail a plain mitered riser.
*Stan, Armin, et al The Kreg jig is a beaut' but why not biscuit joints? Is there a prediliction in your techniques: adhesive vs fastener? Wondering out loud...Jean-Paul
*Jean-Paul: The biscuit joint doesnt clamp itself together like the pocketscrews. I precut all the risers, miter them, pocket screw them, same with the stringers, then as I start assembly, I roll on some titebond glue, and drive in all the screws. It makes a very stout joint. I have a biscuit jointer, and it has not been used in 2 years. When I glue treads up, I am always testing cutoffs to see that the glue joint is strong. I almost never can get the board to break down the glue joint. However, I have considered biscuit jointing my returns, but pocket screwing is its own clampig system, and right away I can sand down the swoop miters on the tread returns.
*Yours truly starting to profile the curved scotia trim. I previously cut these out of solid cherry with a trammel jig on my router. The radius of the skirt face that these are applied to is 10.5 inches.
*router setup for milling scotia
*more
*last closeup view of scotia trim. It is 5/8 x 3/4
*Those are sweet stairs Stan, but I really like the photos of the shop. I wanna be a stair builder!Darrell
*Darrell: Thanks. As far as being a stairbuilder, its a climbing business with lots of turns.
*I'll drink to that Stan, you learn to do it one step at a time.
*stan- I love that wedge system for drawing the joint tight & providing full bearing. I'd truly enjoy working with you for a couple weeks- your stairways are so sweet...gb
*Greg: Thanks. I learned how to do that wedge system from an article in Fine Homebuilding years ago. It is a time proven method for attaching treads and risers. Its been so long since I have fit a tread to a stringer that I have forgotten how. Darrell: On wanting to be a stairbuilder, I picked up a December 1987 issue of Fine Homebuilding on the magazine rack and was reading an article about custom stairbuilders. I was never to be the same after that. I became obsessed with stairbuilding because I wanted my own shop one day. Well, I finally built my shop and absolutely love my work. I like going to the sanctity of my shop and building stairways.
*Stan, Armin , You guys use alot of 2xs for false wall or forms . How do you keep them straight? Find them in the first place ,spend a day at the yard?I guess that you reuse them do you stack and stiker or clamp them flat some how?
*Don: I just cull out the bowed studs and cut them up for other stuff. Just so they are straight front to back. Side to side doesnt matter.
*Don, I buy the straighest 2x6's I can find, sticker pile them in the shed then when I need stair forms I joint one edge and rip down to the maximum width I can get. I save the 2x material for the next job. If they warp again I repeat the process. I have been using the same set of forms now for about 10 years the width is down to 4 1/2 inches.
*Stan- thought you might like to see these glass stairs.
*another view
*The railing was all stainless brass and glass
*Bob: Thanks for those neat pictures. That was really an exotic staircase. I wonder what blade I need to buy for my DeWalt miterbox to chop those glass baslusters.
*I just installed the stairs I started this thread with. I still have the inclined curved and straight railings to run.
*some more views
*I am sure it has been noticed that the stairs goes right across a window. Their was no other way to get this stairway to work out in the parameters I was given. They are going to fill in the bottom of the window up to the top of the stringer and also we will satisfy code with some wrought iron work across the window. This is another case of designing the house without considering the stairway/
*Stan,
View Image "The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Joe: I was late to pick up my daughter and rushed back in to take some quick pictures. Painter left the rag there and I didnt even notice. Did you think I was trying to hide a mule track? haHey, is it going any better out your way?
*Here are some finished pictures of this cherry stairway.
*more shots
*another
*another
*one more
*Stan, nice piece of work, a couple of questions, How did you fasten the balusters to the handrail and the treads? What kind of finish was used on the iron?
*Armin: The finish is a factory powder coat. It is put on with heat, and is real tough.These balusters had 1/2 inch square bottoms. I ground down an 11/16 inch paddle bit so that the corners of the iron baluster had to be driven into the tread. The holes were all 5/8 inch deep. Now what really holds these balusters in place are square drive screws I place on each flat. I drive these down flush with the tread and the cone shaped heads wedge in very tight. You can hardly pull one out after the screws are put in. Also, I am able to adjust the baluster so that it is level both ways by what order I tighten the screws up. The top of the balusters are turned round to 1/2 inch. These just go into 1/2 inch holes which are coated inside with clear silicon. I also drill several of these baluster tops and drive a finish nail at an angle up into the rail to insure it never going anywhere while the silicon sets.
*Stan, very nice work. I have always seen the closed stringers routed, for the riser and tread, through the back (yours stop about an inch from the edge of the board). Do you always do this or only when the stairs are open below and finished? Also you put the stairs together on their side, why is that?
*Paul: The straight section of this stair was finished, and so I didnt want to route clear out the bottom.I build the straight stairs on my work bench and build them on their side. Its easy, and by strictly following a few rules, they will come out square. The mortises and the mitered stringer have to be layed out in a mirror pattern, and cut accurately.Then, if one tread is level both ways, all the rest will be also.
*Another question, on your curved stairs you laminate the stringers then route them. If you use a flat template the router will cut deeper on each end and shallower in the middle. Do you cut the treads straight? Or do you use a flexible template? Another thought - do you use pocket screws to tighten the tread ends into the routed stringer, or would that be a waste of effort?
*Paul: I laminate the stringers. I use a router template made out of mdf to cut the tread and riser mortises. I make vertical kerfs so that it follows the stringers curve. On tight curves, I even warp the router base slightly.My mortises are routed to receive the wedges behind the treads and risers. I have screwed through the outside stringer, but usually dont. The wedges do a nice job of securing the treads.
*Stan, I just finished scrolling through "A Stair is Born", and I'm not embarassed to tell you that my heart rate is up a few clicks! Beautiful! I intend to build a set of stairs for my bungalow, as the existing set are of the steep rise/short tread attic stair variety. I need to build two short, straight flights. Your photos, the half dozen books I have, and the video I just ordered through Taunton should help my success. The upper flight is of the straight type shown in your photos, with one closed stringer and one open stringer. My lower flight is contained between two walls, except for the first two steps. Is it possible, or adviseable, to have two steps on this flight with open stringers, and the rest closed stringer? Also, do you mortise the top edge of the riser into the bottom of the tread, or does the tread just sit on top? Again, your work is an inspiration. Thanks for sharing the photos and information.--TJM
*TJM: Thanks for the compliments. The top of the riser is glued and pocket screwed to the tread. I dont see anything wrong with the two bottom steps being open, just so you have a handrail there. Good luck on your stairs and post some pictures!
*TJM - I get them premade from the lumberyard that way. Open treads on the bottom and closed on the top. If you are making them yourself you might want to make two sets (open for the bottom and closed to set on top). The closed that you make for the top should have the bottom riser run long by the width of the tread to allow it to fit in to the top tread of the open tread stairs. I like to have the top tread scribed into the wall about 4"-5", this allows for 1 baluster (half the tread is between the two walls and half protrudes out. This allows the stringers from the closed stairs to sit on the lower strairs treads. Hope it makes sense.
*Thank you, Stan and Paul, for your comments. Paul, I believe I do follow. If I understand correctly, you suggest to build a "short" set of open carriages that include only the first two steps. This set will be made with treads longer than the dimension between the two walls. These first two steps will be "in front of" the opening between the two walls, with the second step scribed to fit halfway into the wall opening. Then, to continue going up, I should build a set of housed carriages for the rest of this run to the first landing. These housed carriages will actually sit on the second step of the initial short carriage set. I guess this would mean that I would have to pay close attention to the "run" dimension between the second "short carriage" riser, and the first housed carriage riser. But it sounds good to me. My stairs then turn 180 degrees. The next straight set will include one housed and one open string, with ballusters and a hand rail. Yesterday I received the Taunton video "Basic Stairbuilding", by Scott Schuttner. Of interest was part two, where he builds a finished oak stairway, not unlike what I am going to attempt.One question I have is regarding the open stringer. It appears that Mr. Schuttner uses one housed stringer, and two notched carriages. However, he also uses a finish mitered stringer for the open side, mitered to the risers, that is clearly not load bearing (the notched carriage to which this mitered stringer is nailed is the load bearer). I was under the impression that the open, load bearing carriage (stringer?) itself was mitered to the risers, thus eliminating the need for this extra piece of finish trim. Does it matter, or is it a matter of preference? Or, does Mr. Schuttner's method allow one to use a pine carriage board for load bearing, instead of the more expensive oak carriage, to which an oak finish stringer of smaller dimension (and lower cost) can be attached to trim the open side? Your comments are appreciated. Thank you. --TJM
*I have his book. It looks like he uses the carriages for the weight and the mitered skirt for decoration only.