Hi:
The rear of our house is 4 ft above grade, and so far that has been an asset. We put 10′ wide porches, front and back and those two or three days a year that the Houston climate cooperates, we have great outdoor space.
I now want to put in a permanent pool but the local pool builders all want me to place the pool out in the yard, well away from the house. I want a walk out contiguos with the existing porches & decks, but they all shake their heads.
Why is not possible to build a strong enough retaining wall to hold back all four sides of a swimming pool?
Can you drop a fiberglass shell into such a structure? How much strength comes from the shell and how much ‘push-back’ is needed from the surroundings.
djb
Replies
1st post, welcome:
Pool front or back? How deep? Machinery access, deck overhangs, need to had dig being that close, etc. ???? People need more info for any intelligent comments
FG shell = approx zero 'holdback' over 3 ft deep or so, aka pressure withstand capability.
Beware == my fisrt post a number of years back got more flack than help.
Thanks for the warning but nothing ventured nothing gained.
I noticed they were a tough crowd but figured If I knew everything that I needed to know, I wouldn't need yawl.
No I'm not local, didn't vote for GW or anybody else - I'm one of the many hard working immigrants that keep TX ticking.
[I see that some of the guys like to get political but its wasted on me - I'm way further to the left of any of them and my politics have been torn into by my adopted brethren for 15 years]
To business: the planned pool (14 x 24 rectangle - v small Lap pool & aerobic exercise only - nothing fancy) is out back, access is good. Moderate digging required (2 ft max) and closest the edge to house would be 6 ft from edge of porch. Ground slopes off so furthest wall would be 6 ft high. Only one tree to come out.
I would prefer the deck to butt up to the pool but would accept overlap if there was good reason. I could take care of the deck after to pool was constructed. I would like a Waterfall off the back (Cascading down to yard level off the 6 ft wall). One version of the design includes a spar. I really don't care what it is made of, just that it flows out of the existing living space. (We have an above ground pool decked in on the proposed site but it's time to build something better)
All the pool guys we have called want to build me a tropical oasis on the back lot and decline to bid the job, I'm just trying to figure if its because it can not be done or because it's not a big enough job for the people we called (This is North Houston & the recession does not seem to have hit - houses are going up like mushrooms, everything from 'cookie cutter' to major 'custom'.)
djb
(Too Stupid to stay away!)
If I knew everything that I needed to know, I wouldn't need yawl.
We'll keep you on an even keel. <G>
All the pool guys we have called want to build me a tropical oasis on the back lot and decline to bid the job, I'm just trying to figure if its because it can not be done
Pool companies, like any other, do what they do. Apparently a gunnited pool isn't applicable at your preferred site. What will work is a reinforced concrete pool. Tile is the best covering, also generally the most expensive.
My suggestion is to find a concrete company, used to reinforced concrete, who's willing to pour you a pool. Unfortunately, you're probably going to be on your own to find the rest of the details. Grainger offers pumps, filters, skimmers and the rest- if you know what you're doing. Some has to be in the forms for the pour. The good news is you'll likely save a huge amount from the pool companies' prices, if our area is any indication.
For an indoor pool in our owner-built reinforced concrete house, I found a pool maintenence guy who was invaluable for advice. He initially suggested painting the concrete. That's high maintenance. I asked why not tile? His response was $$$$$$. Yeah, unless you go to the large tile places and clean out their warehouses of obsolete tile. I paid .25-.50/ft. Then you've gotta find a tile setter who realizes that his backsplash price/ft isn't reasonable... or DIY.
For what it's worth, my first BT question got no responses, other than one "yeah, I'm interested in that too".
Good luck. (And you've already done better than Junk and me.) PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Oh Tommy ... your post sounds like the guy from "Contractors out of their mind" rubbed off on you. Shame, shame.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Thanks everybody, lots of good insight.
I need to change the questions I ask when I call the pool guys, stop wasting their time & mine.
I've seen the pictures of these great pools with disappearing edges but its likely that they incorporate re-inforced walls or some other technique not standard to this area. (Somebody already pointed out that 4 ft elevation is unusual for Houston).
I've just sold a very small 'oilfield service' Company, similar in the pecking order to a 'sub' in the building trade. I had to bail out because the big boys were driving the prices down to a level that needed volumes I could not hope to achieve. So believe me I'm sensitive to the idea of a 'fair price for a fair job' but right now I'm not even getting any quotes (or local advice) to reject.
Anyway thanks for all the help and thank you all for not singing this 'newbie'.
djb
your post sounds like the guy from "Contractors out of their mind" rubbed off on you
I guess I'll have to go read it. No idea what you have a problem with. I was referring to fear of the unknown with contractors, which I've often encountered. No disrespect intended, that's just how it is. This is how I got started pouring concrete in the first place. Scared the crap out of the local wall guys with what I wanted to do.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Oh, Hiltie,
That thread's too long and uninteresting for me to get through. Are you a pool contractor that you thought I was maligning? Got a question, ask. Otherwise, bite me.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
The 'out-of-their-mind' thread is not really worth reading ... maybe the first 5-6 messages and you get a good ffel for it. On yours, I was referring to the comments you made about beating the subs down on their prices ... came out a bit more harsh than I remember your other posts.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
You have a reasonably simple request, but you are running into "ain't the way we do it here" business practice of pool contractors in Harris County. Some of that will be due to it being the height of pool building season. Build it the way the contractor is used to, and it's in in about a week. Anything else requires more thought than the jobs that are already back-to-back on his schedule.
Short answer is wait three months (maybe two if it cools off earlier than normal). You may get a lot more attention from the contractors about that time.
You may need a bit of engineering for a semi-above ground pool, though (especially in the black gumbo goo Harris County is forced, for want of a better term, to call soil.
You said "porches" and not decks, I'm assuming that you mean "porches" as having roofs. The pool folk down there seem to like a D series cat front end loader (excepting those that use a 900 Case backhoe). They often want to keep a 10' standoff from exisiting structures (soil problems are less likely to magnify themselves that way). There's not really that bif a gap to deck (possibly separately) out as "walk out." The waterfalls and other "tropical" goodies are things that make other customers happy (or keep them from having to look at the mediocre cheapest bid fence put up in the subdivison). There's a tidy profit in some of those add-ons. Liek the appetizer at an expensive restaurant, just say "no."Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
What part of Houston has enough of an elevation change to give you 4 ft of drop?
What about one of theose giant fiberglass pre-cast pools? There's a place here that has a display next to the freeway, some of the pools are qiuite large. It would take a crane to lift it over the house into the backyard, but they are fairly light when empty (duh ... like they would deliver it full) so that should be doable.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Hey!
Waht're ya goann do with a pool and no water?????
They better deliver it with water or I can't go swimmin.
Me
Houston was a quick way of saying Conroe (who the hells heard of Conroe!).
I liked the look of a precast Fiberglass shell but all the websites say it's got to go in a hole. That was the point of one of my original Q's - I asked about 'hold-back' but why would a geologist know how to ask the right question.
Keep it coming - I'll get this figured yet.
djb
Gunnite pools with raised beams are done all the tme.
Your beam just happens to be raised a lot more than the typical one.
It can be done, think of it as something requiring forms to shape the perimeter of the pool, then rebar, then shooting the 'crete. Your pool will require more rebar than typical and a thicker shell than typical.
Pools as you describe are not that rare. In a sense. While you see very few shot pools that are out of the earth on all four sides like an above ground pool, it's much more common to see a zero-edge type of pool on a sloping lot, similar to a foundation poured on a sloping lot. One long side bermed against earth, the two short sides part in and part out of the earth, and the fourth side open to air.
What you're asking for can be done, and it can work, as it has worked in the past. I realize you;re not looking for a zero-edge pool, but using it as an example shows that you can have a beam raised 4' above the surrounding terrain.
The people you're asking, however, have never done it, don't know how to do it, and thus the resistance.
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Certainly it can be done, just not using technology these particular guys are selling. I know, for instance, that some plastic-lined pools are built part in/part out, with a raised deck around. It's just a combo of the standard raised pool technology with the standard in-the-ground technology.
If you want a concrete pool, it's clearly a matter of reenforcing the concrete sufficiently in the upper part, plus assuring that no excessive stress builds up at the junction between upper and lower. Would require some engineering, but not even bottle rocket science.