I am in a wheelchair and we are planning on remodeling the bathroom. Part of the remodel is a roll in shower with no curb. The contractor that we are using, specializes in accessible remodels and has had 25 years experience in the business. She insists thata poured in place pan with tile over it is the only way to get a leak-proof shower. Calking, silicone etc. just doesn’t work. My wife is dead set against tile and wants to have some other solution.
Is there an alternate surface that can be used?
Replies
I saw on "This Old House" they used solid surface counter tops and glued/fused together all the pieces to create a single unit. A bit pricey but lots of choice in color and patterns. Also saw a neat design in a magazine of a nautilus shape ie: turns into itself. I understand maneuvering room is required but with enough floor space this would allow for roll in access and still keep the water in the shower. good luck with the shower Bruce
Dear Sir,
Fiberglass units exist but are for new construction. For remodel applications tile works best. Your wife may not like tile becouse of problems with the grout. The new grouts work much better than the old ones.
TGW
I saw on "This old house" with the real bob, on a trip to Norway or sweden. Where the whole bathroom was waterproof and the shower arm just hung out one wall with a floor drain. Just think you could clean the bathroom with a water hose.
Acid dyed concrete. It can be any number of colors or combinations and can be finished just textured enough to prevent slipping or formed to look like natural stone. Rocks, seashells, marbles, pieces of computer boards, etcetera can be added as contrasting features or part of a pattern. My 2 cents worth.
Forget the tile.
Go with cultured marble. Easy to install, very easy to maintain, costs a LOT less, and installs fast. Many color schemes to choose from, and looks great.
Tile installers tend to disagree with that, but I personally think (based on experience) that it is because they do not work enough with cultured marble to appreciate it's durability, its ease of installation, and its beauty.
Just a thought...
James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
Presumably the cultured marble would be in several (or many) pieces. How would they be connected and sealed? Grouted? Seamless as solid-surface materials (such as Corian) are sealed? A one-piece shower pan is easy. The hard part is how to achieve a waterproof seam with whatever we use on the floor of the bathroom. The alternative is one continuous floor in the entire room, including the shower.
I'm glad that James spoke up. If he hadn't I would have dragged his name in here in correlation with cultured marble. LOL
I am not positive, but I think that because it's "cultured", you can get the showerpan in one piece, almost any size and shape.
Also, the 'too slick' problem... Again, "cultured" Seems to me, they would have already addressed that problem in shower pans...
I'm sure James can correct me if I am wrong on either point.
James,
Isn't marble too slick for a shower floor?
Jon
JJ (and everybody else),
Cultured marble is a wonderful material to work with simply because it is molded into any shape or form that can be imagined (and provided the cultured marble manufacturer is willing to make a mold). Most molds are preformed, but can be modified with inserts, add on apnels, etc...
Here is a pic of a cultured marble handicapped accessible shower I did about a year or so ago. The floor of the shower is a ONE PIECE molded floor piece, with a textured surface to prevent slips. This textured surface is part of the mold for a shower pan.
This particular shower is 4' x 5', and is wheelchair accessible, as well as accessible for an older person who has trouble lifting their legs to step over a tub lip, or a shower pan lip.
The "seal" between the panels and the floor, and between each panel is very easy to do, and is quite water proof. I use a router with a carbide bit to run a dado of sorts along the edge of each end panel. The side panel sits IN this groove, and I apply a waterproof sealant before the panel is fitted. This sealant not only keeps water out, it also keeps the panel ends tight against each other. The sealant is flexible, so movement of the panles for expansion and contraction is available.
The pan is done somewhat the same way, although I have an option at the factory to have the groove placed there while the floor is being made. They set a piece of metal along the edge of the mold, and when the mixture is poured, it forms a groove in the top side of the pan edge. I then insert the bottom edge of the wall panels in this groove, and seal it the same way as the panel ends.
Once the entire unit is assembled and ready to go, I run a bead of BATHTUB grade caulk/sealant along each seam. I use the same color as the base color of the marble so that each seam is almost invisible.
As for the seam at the side wall, there isn't one. The side panel can be made any size you want. The bigger you get it made, the heavier it is, so have some help availabel if you get a big one. This panel was 80" tall, and 60" long. It weighed a LOT. The floor pan was 4' x 5', and 2" thick. It took two of us to set it in place, and that was with some effort.
In this pic, the seat was added AFTER the shower walls were installed. It can be removed later if this client ever is confined to a wheelchair. Also, if water ever managed to get behind the seat assembly, it will still be inside the shower walls, and cause absolutely no problem with the framing.
James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
Wow!
I just suffered through a similar job at my parents' house. I spent a week there converting a tub space into an accessible shower. I had a hell of a time with the mud pan (largely because I used the wrong mortar) and would have given anything to have had a one-piece pan. Too bad I'm reading this about three weeks too late.
Beautiful work!
Jon
Nice work James!
I like the flexibility of culcured marble as well.
Gabe
Thanks for your input. Beautiful shower. But your photo seems to show a change of floor level between the shower and the room floor, which is tiled. We'd really like to have the entire bathroom floor one level(with a slight slope into the shower), either all the same material or two materials--a poured-in-place or preformed shower pan with sheet vinyl bathroom flooring. A local dealer told us a few months ago that the area (roughly 8 feet square) is too large to pour or mold cultured marble in one piece. You don't say anything about floor seams. We could live with a slight threshold; how high is the one in the photo? We'd be very happy with a cultured marble or fiberglass shower pan. The problem is how to maintain a watertight seal where it meets the bathroom floor.
Edited 7/4/2002 8:10:20 PM ET by Jim
Thank you for the compliments everybody.
Gabe - Thank you sir. The versatility of cultured marble is what really makes this material so easy to use. I can get it any thickness, and just about any shape or size I need provided the manufacturer feels like fooling with making a new mold. Most of their molds are very versatile themselves, and can be attached together to make some pretty neat stuff. They even make Roman Ogee trim to go around marble panels (or anywhere else ya want to use them).
Jim - The floor you see is actually Armstrong vinyl flooring. The threshold (or lip) of the shower base is actually pretty low profile. The transition piece is 10" wide, and the top lip of the shower pan at this point is only 1 1/8" above the finished floor. So, the 10" wide piece sits flush on the floor at the front (into the room) and sits on TOP of the edge of the pan. The threshold is supported by a mortar bed underneath (in a wedge shape). I then added a 1" wide strip about 3/8" thick across the top front of the pan (butted against the edge of the threshold) for a water barrier. I hope that all made sense. The client uses a regular shower curtain and has had no problem with water running out onto the floor area. With the use of a hand held shower head, the direction of water can be better controlled. As long as the drain is functioning properly, and you don't point the water directly at the edges of the shower curtain, you shouldn't have a problem.
Just a thought...James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
corian or similar
Great Lakes Plastics in H a n c o c k, MI manufactures bath and shower modules under the name Warm Rain. They make five barrier free shower modules - 39 x 39, 60 x 39 and 60 x 60. All are designed for "roll-in" accessability and three are breakdown units designed for remodeling. You can fit all parts through a doorway as narrow as 24". You can order them as "plain jane" units or complete with grab bars, fold down seats and pressure balancing faucet.
Here's the link to their web site..............
Thanks for the link.
I notice that the "roll in" capability still requires a small threshold or lip since the front lip of the unit is 2" off the ground.
Have you ever used one of these units in a remodel? I am curious about the strength of the grab bars since they would basically be relying on the strength of the fasteners holding the unit to the wall. The grab bars are attached to the unit only, and the unit is attached to the wall via the lip around the unit. I am not sure I'd rely on the strength of the lip fasteners, but I may be dead wrong on that.
James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
I've installed the 60 x 60 unit with all the trimmings for a wheel-chair-bound double amputee and she really liked it. I yanked pretty hard on the grab bars after installation and couldn't get anything to give. The products from this company are well made and strong. It's the only one I know of that makes a soaking tub and whirlpool with a recommended installation method of just hanging it by the lip without any bedding under the bottom.
This was installed about 7 years ago so I don't remember exactly what the treatment was for the 2" lip. We gained a little by installing it on the sub floor rather than on the finished floor, but I don't know if the carps put in a threshold or just raised the entire floor to make up the difference. This was a complete house remodel so they may have raised all the floors in the entire house.
She'd lived in the house for 40 years w/the only water source in the bathroom. Diabetes finally took both legs and the county decided it would be less expensive in the long run to spend $50K one time to remodel her home to meet her needs, than to take care of her in a nursing home for the remainder of her years.
Edited 7/5/2002 10:17:24 AM ET by allaround
Thanks for the information. I bookmarked the web site, and will do some checking to see if I might try them out in the future. I'm always looking for better materials and techniques.
I used to do a lot of work for the state of Texas (Departnment of Human Services - MDCP Section) and ran into a LOT of those types of situations where the state would rather pay to have a person's home modified to fit their needs. This keeps the individual at home where they really want to be, and takes a large burden off of the state for long term care. Most of the homes were real low quality, and whenever we did a first class job with very nice materials, they were almost in tears. They couldn't believe someone would come in and do that nice of work for someone like them. They pretty much figured the state would send in a dud contractor, and have them use cheap materials and cheap techniques. The state ALWAYS insisted on top quality work, and the best materials available. That surprised me almost as much as it did the clients. If you fudged one iota, they didn't pay. I ALWAYS got paid. No better feeling in the world than to see the look of joy in their faces, and have them give you the most heartfelt "Thank You" that you could imagine. I got lots of hugs too!
Bath remodels for kids in wheelchairs was what we did the most of, but we also did quite a few wheelchair ramps and other home modifications like door widening, floor repairing, etc... Man I sure miss those days. The state only allows you to do those types of contracts for a certain period of time, then they move on to other contractors. I served my time, and moved on.
Just a thought... James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
We just finished doing 4 fully accessible washrooms with showers. What we did was to raise the floor at the entry and gently sloped it towards the shower. It doesn't take much slope. The entry treshold was tapered on the hall side to facilitate wheelchair access and square on the bath side to allow the floor to be raised to the top of the treshold. 1 1/4 inches is all that was needed.
The entire floor of the washroom was water proofed with a rubber membrane and tiled over with slate tiles. Leaks are not an issue.
You could always recess the bottom of the shower into the floor as an option as well.
Gabe