Take a look at the repair job done on the mortar. The handyman who did the repair apparently used “off the shelf” mortar and made no effort to match the original white mortar. I don’t have a lot of familiarity with masonry so I thought I would ask here. Is this acceptable?
Old masonry may look tough, but the wrong mortar can destroy it—here's how to choose the right mix for lasting repairs.
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Replies
Did you pay him yet? If not- don't.
A bag of white portland is $10
A bag of lime is $10
a bag of coarse sand is $5
Sorry this happened
Bruce
Edited 6/11/2009 8:03 pm by Hiker
He didn't use mortar, he used concrete patch.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Is this your house? Did you hire this guy? More over, did you hire the cheapest guy? If so you got what you paid for.
Did you explain that you wanted the mortar to match or did you assume it would.
Dont take this the wrong way, I dont mean to seem like i'm slamming you but the work doesnt look bad, its just a color match thing.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
you can probably use a Grout die to match it to customers satisfaction.
Custom products sell for $8.95 a bottle
Just a thot Craig
It will probably get pretty close after you apply the Muriatic Acid wash...
then again, maybe not.
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
Thanks guys. Now for a little confession. That's MY work in the picture. I didn't want anyone to tone down their comments knowing they were talking to the guy who did the work.
I rarely do any masonry work so I was sort of proud of the job I did here. I just bought a bag of ready-mixed mortar mix (not concrete patch# from the local lumber yard. I didn't even really notice the color mis-match and it never even occurred to me to try to do a custom blend to match what was there.
I know the customer. She's a long-time regular. And she wouldn't have complained. Certainly not for the price I was going to charge which was seriously cheap, but like I said, we go way back. She's selling this house and the new buyers listed this repair as a condition of sale. They're the ones who found the work unacceptable and I found out through the real estate agent #who I also know and is a wonderful person) who found out through their lawyer. It's like I'm working for virtual people, not real ones.
After "unacceptable" was brought to my attention, I went back to take pictures. I was actually surprised to see what a bad match it was, but it's still not dry and it will lighten up some more. But like I said, matching the color didn't occur to me.
I have not sent a bill for this work. I may not, but knowing my customer (the actual, current homeowner) she'll want to pay me, but will most likely forget unless she gets a bill. It's so little money, I'm not very concerned about it and over the years, this customer has given me a lot of work.
As an aside, in the same phone call that the RE agent told me that the buyers found the work unacceptable, she also asked me to do some work over at her house. So fortunately, it's not like I've completely ruined my reputation in the particular network.
Now then, what's this about muriatic acid? I have some and it would be a simple matter to brush some on. Can I leave it or do I need to rinse it off? I have some left over mortar so I plan on experimenting in any case.
Matching colors is an art that few have learned (certainly not me). You've done a fine job of pointing and striking...
just one more step to remove the surface cement from the aggregate.
With an old (throw it away after use) stiff bristle brush (wearing gloves), apply the acid liberally and allow to bubble...
brush a bit...
wait a few minutes...
rinse very well.
Repeat if needed.
It will expose the sand in the mix and help "soften" the look.
It may work out well depending on the color of the sand.A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
That's MY work in the picture.
So you DID hire the cheapest guy. "Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
So you DID hire the cheapest guy.
Ha, ha. Actually, I'm sure I would have been the cheapest guy and if I don't bill for this job, I'll be even cheaper.
I'm surprised they can demand fixing this for sale. Usually, the repair has to be "significant" -- like over $500 or $1,000 -- to be required for sale.
That said, if it was me, I'd offer to grind it out and re-apply white mortar (with a little tint to make it "old") to satisfy the new buyer. I'd charge the going rate for the re-do work since the original wasn't really defective and was satisfactory to the original customer. I'd demand payment at closing. That way, the original customer isn't really out of pocket for the re-do.
FWIW, I think re-doing the morter will be easier than trying to get a match with what's there.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Don--
As a couple of others have mentioned, the best job is going to be gotten by grinding out the grey goop you put on and repointing again with the right stuff. It's not that big of a job if you've got a small angle-grinder and a few masonry discs.
However, what the right stuff is, is the real question.
To my eye, the original mortar in the photo has almost the same colour as vintage '60s sidewalk concrete, which used a coarse sand aggregate rather than the crushed stone used today. I think you might be able to use a bagged sand-cement pre-mix, and add a bit of lime to fatten it up some.
Or, you could try the white mortar mix others have suggested; that's usually used for setting glass block, and should be available from your local yard or a tile supplier.
You could also try sanded floor grout--which is available in many colours, one of which would surely match--but I'm not sure if the texture would be as coarse as the original brick mortar.
Whatever you decide to try, I'd suggest you mix up a small batch, smear some on a few scrap bricks or a piece of plywood, and let it dry for a few days to see what colour and texture develop. Then use the product which gives the best match.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I like the way you approached this thread, and by that alone I think you're an honest guy and will do what's right for all parties involved. The world needs more honest people like you, thanks for sharing.
Thank you. I used to be in IT myself. When I lost that job, I hardly looked for new employment in that field because my heart wasn't in it anymore.
Instead, I chose to turn my hobby into my livelihood. (A great way to ruin a hobby, btw#. I am enjoying myself much more in my work despite the occasional wrinkle. I earn a lot less now so I can't be doing it solely for the money and if I can't make an honest go of it #and it's harder now than ever for me) I'll go flip burgers or some other kind of honest work.
Don, it looks fine to me. It's obvious that it has been repaired, but so what.Look at Mike Smiths shingle patching, you can see the new ones a mile away. And no one cares, or if they do, I bet the whole side gets reshingled.
I was wondering if you'd keep up posted on what happens.I couldn't imagine not buying a house over a slightly mismatched joint.I'm wondering how much is about the joint and how much revolves around negotiating the sale.
According to the real estate agent, there are a host of issues, some small, some big. Enough to make one wonder why they wanted the house in the first place. So yeah, it seems like it's more about negotiating price than the work actually being unacceptable.
As it stands, I told the RE agent that I would be willing to go back, remove my unacceptable work and not charge for anything. She said that she sent a letter (through the attorneys) to that effect and if I didn't hear back, I wouldn't need to do anything. I haven't heard anything. Nonetheless, I don't plan on sending a bill.
It's surreal that a repair so small and cheap involves attorneys.
You're a stand up guy for backing your work. This should help your reputation with your existing customers.
No way - this is not acceptable. He needed to use white cement and sand.
I would have him grind it out, but my guess is that he would screw it up even more. Get someone else who can grind the mud back and do it right.
Bummer...
Thanks for your comments.
As it stands right now, the handyman who did this job (me, actually) will not get paid.
I wouldn't be too hard on yourself--from the pix it looks like the first two treads need to be ground out and repointed, and I'll be the whole stoop could use it. The mason who fixes it might make fun of you, but the buyers have more work ahead on this project no matter how much they don't like the color of your repair.
Best of luck. Everyone makes mistakes. If you do grind it out, go slow.
Brick yards have sleeved samples of mortar, find out what was supossed to be used, It all takes time to dry to the color anyway and you may be in luck. I have 4 colors of grey mortar samples for mortar matches for brick shell additions.
Edited 6/13/2009 11:01 am ET by shellbuilder
This thread generated a little more interest than I expected so here's an update. The buyers wanted the gray mortar removed and a $350 credit to repair the steps. They made it a condition of the sale.
I'm hearing all of this through the RE agent, but I absolutely trust her and she is genuinely a good person.
What to do? After I finished my scheduled day, I went back to the scene of the crime and un-did my work. It took me 2 hours to put the mortar in and almost 4 hours to remove it. And now that the joints are cleaner than before any work was done, a decent mason should be able to tuck-point in about 1 hour. For that, they want $350 credit. Something is not right here.
The RE agent said she is going to try to get a mason to re-do the repair because she thinks $350 is just too much. At this point, good luck to everyone involved in that deal because I'm out of it.
As an aside, my $10 Harbor Freight right angle grinder gave up halfway through the job. I think it's the switch that just couldn't take all that dust. It had already paid for itself so I didn't care other than needing to run out and buy another one. Now I have a Makita.
Awhile back, I removed some gutter and repaired some fascia for a good customer. The seamless gutter guy in this area had passed away and the customer asked me to hang gutter with seams in it. Not being a gutter guy, I used hangers that screwed to the fascia behind the gutter before it went on and hung the gutter so it looked nice.The customer cleans his gutter out and notices there is 3/8" of water that doesn't drain from one end. He is uncharacteristically angry and demands the gutter be pitched 1/8" per foot (like some lurking expert told him) and that he is quite concerned that his gutter doesn't work at all and that it will overrun and water will damage his basement.I admitted that I needed to repitch the gutter and I would do so at no charge to him. Since it would entail removing the gutter and rehanging it, I told him I would have to wait until I could get to it, but his gutter would work fine until then, he would just lose 3/8" of 4" of capacity (Not a major concern in W. Ks.). Also I couldn't give him an 1/8" drop because the hangers wouldn't let me hang the gutter that low and he wouldn't like it anyway.He agreed to wait and I think he grasped the drop, but would not accept that his gutter wasn't non-functional and was very angry about it.I do some other work for him and clean out the gutter before taking it down. I used a hose nozzle and noticed that when I let off, a wave would come back to me an probably would no matter how I pitched this gutter. I realized he would see this and be dissatisfied. He also would refuse to reasonably talk about it.The other work I had done for him would be about what seamless would cost, so I told him I would not charge him so he could use the money to buy seamless gutter. Furthermore I would remove the old gutter before the seamless guy came. He's happy and offered me other work.Sorry to write a book, but my point is that I do such a wide variety things that I reasonably can't expect myself to do everything to suit everybody. I try my best to find out the small details, but sometimes I fail. Sometimes I have to eat something to pacify my customer.I just have to remember to keep that in mind when I charge. It's all just a song and dance routine. I hope I can work until I'm 85 then maybe I can start to get a handle on this.As far as the $350 goes, some folks aren't happy to buy anything unless they think they have taken advantage. Just another game.Thanks for telling us how it turned out.
Good move getting out. Once there's a problem and people are staring at a
tuck pointing job, there is no acceptable job. Your pointing was fine other then color IMO.
Hey Don,I just wanted to ditto the other BT'ers post on your approach with this thread. Stand up move not identifying yourself at the outset.
Thanks, Kevin. I had reservations about posting that way since it was a little less than comnpletely forthright, but I guess it worked out ok. It's certainly not something I plan on making a habit of.
And, as usual, BT comments ran the gamut anyway.