We have added oil base stain (SW brand) to our laquer (SW) on the last two little jobs and we were pleased with the result.
We started out trying to find a quick way to stain and finish #2 pine ( which can be difficult to stain) for a rental property. It worked out well so now we have tried it on oak.
Does anyone see any problems with this?
It sure speeds up the process and the it looks great.
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Replies
If you think it looks great, there's no problem. The usual method is to stain the wood, wipe it off, and let it dry. This puts color into the wood and leaves the grain clear. Lacquer on top of that is one of the clearest finishes you can have. Really lets the beauty of the wood shine through.
What you're doing is putting the color into the lacquer. That essentially applies a translucent finish to the wood. To some extent, that will obscure the grain.
This is the basic difference between the finish on products from a top-grade furniture shop and an outfit like Thomasville.
We thought it looked like a factory finish.
Finishing books will say it's a no-no, but it's been done for a long time with fine results. An earlier poster was right and pointed out it will obscure the grain to a degree, but that's the only drawback.Expert since 10 am.
Yep, that's exactly the way the big manufacturers do things.George Patterson
If it works then I have to say no, but it seems like a problem waiting to happen to me.
Basically, you're mixing a varnish and a lacquer - two different curing processes are happening there. IMO, for the same reason you wouldn't mix lacquer thinner to a varnish or mineral spirits to a lacquer, I woudn't mix the two the way you're doing it.
Are you spraying or brushing?
The concept is called Toning and it is SOP.
Not sure about what pigments are carriers are compatable for use with the laquer.
You can look at a couple of the wood finishing books.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Toned clear coat is used extensively in the industry. Only thing I might suggest is that you use solvent based stains or tints like TransTint from Homestead Finishing...less chance of some weird reaction.
Trans tints are more like dyes and can be mixed in higher concentration without obscuring grain.
This was finished using red transtint in all but the final two coats of lacquer. Looks kinda orange in the photo, blame that on the flash or photographer!
View Image
PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
I was going to mention TransTint also, but my question to the OP would be "What does the manufacturer of the lacquer say?"
A couple of weeks ago I posted updated pics on my hand painted ceiling.
I am not sure if you saw them or not. But you had good input on the 1st time around.
I think I saw them, but I'm not positive if I'm remembering the right thread or not. Do you have a thread number? I'd like to look again.
I've used Trans Tints from Homestead with nitro lacquer, but not with WB. Any problems or concerns?
Thanks
I've used them two ways...toner in pre-cat and nitro lacquer and as dye mixed with alcohol. Applied dye and then shot with water base, no problem. So I haven't actually used as toner in WB, although I wouldn't hesitate if the need arose.
They're pretty incredible in versatility, I've spoken with Jeff Jewitt and his knowledge comes from experience...I like that. This taken from Homestead's site:
TO USE AS A DYE STAIN Mix with tap or distilled water for an economical, non-flammable stain.
OR mix with alcohol for a fast-drying, non-grain raising stain. No waiting or straining is necessary because the dye is pre-dissolved.
Suggested mix ratio is 2 oz. dye per 1/2 gallon solvent (increase or decrease ratio to suit need). Dye solutions can be applied by brush, rag, spray, or sponge. When using a water-reduced dye, a pre-grain raising is advisable -- apply the dye with an abrasive pad like maroon Mirlon.
TO USE AS A FINISH TONER One of TransTint Dyes most unique features is their compatibility with a wide range of finishing mediums. Simply add the dye concentrate directly to shellac, water-base finishes, solvent lacquers, and catalyzed varnish or lacquers. Add any amount up to 1 oz. per quart. All 19 dye colors (10 wood tones & 9 accent colors) are intermixable to produce custom shades
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/TransTint.htmPJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
I've only used the Trans-Tint in WB, 5-6 drops per gallon, to warm it up to look like nitro. Gonna try some others now.
Thanks for the info.
Problem I've run into doing this is that the stain when mixed with lacquer inhibits adhesion. The finish seems much more susceptable to chipping, & when it chips it leaves raw wood exposed. Not fun to repair.
Had much better luck using a lacquer compatible tint.
greg
Sometimes the oil ( carrier) in the stain will weaken the lacquer, or even react with it to boil your finish into a mess. I had it happen once on louvered doors - the worst place to have to re-do!
So you are better off adding pigment to the lacquer instead of the full mix
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Your better bet is buying compatible tints from the same company that supplies your lacquer to make your own toners....they are doing this all the time and will also do custom colours etc. Then the facotry finish schedule is seal-shade/tone-clearcoat.
But yes, you can add your regular stain into the lacquer without problems (usually). The finish suppliers will usually tell you not to add more than about 5%....no more than 8%, or you will run into adhesion problems etc.
Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
I have used."toner," on a few occasions. It is most definitely faster and the perfect application for commercial work.
We also used it when we had to match a custom cabinet. The stain was so dark there was no other way to achieve the shade without spraying the product on. Wiping the stain would have left lines.
Good luck,
Jon
Russian saying
Thanks for all the input.