Adding Insulation. How To? Advice?
My 1968 ish 1200 square foot ranch on a slab has R-9 fiberglass in the 2 x 4 exterior walls. I tore up some of the walls in the kitchen and the condition is so-so, plenty of evidence of infiltration (dirt tracking).
The home still has the original single pane windows with storms- I know that is an issue.
The home has two layers of siding- aluminum over the original vertical grooved hardboard (it is not cedar or plywood T-11 style). The second layer of siding was installed in the 1980’s.
One option is to tear off all the siding and Celotex and use either blown in cellulose or spray foam, then reinstall sheathing and siding. I am leaning towards cellulose over the foam. I have been in homes with the blown in cellulose stuff, and they are quite comfy and experience low energy costs.
Another is to tear off all the siding, install exterior foam board, then re-side.
Another option is to work from the inside- remove drywall, insulate, then refinish.
I have even considered removing the interior drywall, buiding a secondary interior wall, (spacing the framing to avoid noise transmission) then insulating the whole cavity. The obvious drawback would be slightly reduced square footage, but the added insulating value might be worth it. I have a Manual J program, so I can quickly figure btu loss and gains. I would also gain a bunch of window shelves and I would have to deal with the electrical boxes. The kitchen cabinets are tight as it is, so that one section of wall could not be built out (could be the whole corner due to window placement).
I do not know if the pour in place foams will work with existing insulation batts- I am guessing no.
One advantage to tearing off the siding is that makes the installation of new construction windows feasable. The savings of new construction windows compared to “replacement” windows can pay for about 30% of the residing costs. I also won’t have the “new window in an old opening” thing happening, or dealing with flashing in a new window and two layers of siding.
I am concerned about the structural integrity of the home if I work from the outside in. Judging by new construction in the area, I am assuming there is plywood at the corners of the home and around some of the window openings that are within 4′ of a corner. I suppose that a long 2 x 4 nailed on a diagonal on the interior wall would brace the structure when the exterior plywood corner bracing was removed to insulate behind it.
Anyone else consider or complete a project similar in scope? Any suggestions?
I estimate that the tear off and new windows can be done for less than $30k, and will enhance the value of my home. A few homes on my street have already replaced their 20+ year old siding, so that kinda pushes me in that direction for a future selling point. I was planning on moving, but prices have escalated to the point that I am priced out of many areas that don’t include a long commute, so now I am considering staying put- at least for a few more years.
I could complete most of the work from the inside (new framing and drywall), then just hire out the finishing and insulation spraying. Then I could order new windows and hire out the exterior work because that would need to be completed quickly.
Replies
Need to know where you live but, IMHO leave the walls alone and replace the windows. It would take a life time to recover the cost for replacing the insulation!
It would take a life time to recover the cost for replacing the insulation!everybody use this argument, but I like my $29 power bills, I like the house not being cold or hot, I like not turning the tv up everytime the heater kicks on, I like not worrying about price of fuel climbing ten years from now. I rather pay now than later, beside I will pass the price on when I sell the house, if I do. Insulation is really not that much in price.. 2+3=7
Just seems very expensive to pull down sheet rock or siding to replace R9 FG ! He's talking 30K in his post. I saw in another post that you built your whole house for 50K or something like that??
The siding, soffit and fascia are all at the cosmetic point where replacement should be considered.
The windows need to be replaced from an efficiency standpoint, but they still function as windows. I understand that simply replacing the windows is not a good move as far as resale options are concerned.
The ~$20 to $30k estimate (my guess- nothing formal) is for a siding tear off (2 layers), replacement with Hardie Board siding (home and detached 2+ car garage), new soffit and fascia and new construction windows for the existing rough openings. I had a written estimate two years ago at $9k for the Hardie siding job alone- no windows.
I agree that this level of work to simply replace insulation is not smart. However, if the siding comes off anyway, how much more of a big deal is it to strip inexpensive Celotex fiber sheathing and call in a cellulose insulating company?
I agree if you are taking siding off. When I read your 1st post you talked of pulling sheet rock down or pulling off siding to get to the insulation. I thought that was your only goal. and maybe replacing windows?
$41 954 with land. 2+3=7
You can blow cells through a small hole in the drywall.
Leave the FG, the cells will partially crush it. It won't be a perfect job, but a lot cheaper than anything else on your list.
Joe H
Naughty Naughty for not filling out your profile!
I understand the economics you are talking about. Here in SoCal, where home prices have been rising in the double digits every year for a decade, people cannot move. Unless they suddenly come into a GREAT deal of money (hey, how many double digit raises have you gotten for a decade straight?), they couldn't even afford the house they live in if they had to repurchace it again. People improve and add on rather than move.
I think that you should constrain your options to exterior work only. You accomplish all you need to without severly impacting your existing living space... and only 1200sf is pretty tight already.
Do a search here for "Mooney Wall". Basicly it adds horizontal 1x3 or 2x2 face nailed boards over the existing wall on 12" or 16" centers, this allowes the walls to be filled with cellulose easily AND breaks the thermal and sound transmission. You can even cover it with a layer of foam board then siding, I would think - depending on where the vapor barrier in your climate needs to be. This gives you your deeper window boxes without having to redo all the outlets. Plus, you get to use the latest best flashing materials on your new windows... who knows what they used on the first pass?
The vertical panel of plywood in the corner of new construction is called a "Shear Wall". I doubt you have that in the corners of your house - more likely you have a let-in 1x6 diagonal brace which does the same thing.
Think about this if you go forward: Since I have the wall off, is there anything I can do now that would make adding an addition or second story easier?
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Profile issue taken care of.
You are correct about the pricing. I would have a difficult time purchasing this home today with no money down, and I have only been here a few years. New single-family construction is at 2x or more than the current value of my home- and the taxes that match. New townhomes are at or slightly higher than the current price of my home, and those are at around 1000 sq ft.
Comparably priced new construction is an hours drive south/southwest on a clear dry day. That can easily turn an 8 hour workday into 12 when traffic is bad.
I think I missed the last few 20% raises.....
Going up is an option, but the area does not support that yet- a few have done it. The floorplan has a nice spot for a stairway, electrical would require a subpanel and water/sewer are centrally located. New HVAC would go upstairs. Structural support for a second floor would be an issue because I have a truss roof system and a large open space in half of the home. Nothing that some steel can't fix.
No basement, so that really sucks.
I would honestly like an 800 sq ft home and a 1200+ sq ft garage... :)
dan............another option or at least something to think about......build new wall inside with 2x4 and space in for any thicknes of insulation ....upgrade wiring , plumbing drywall it........and you bet, theres problems with jamb expanders etc. I have found in rremods of old buildings for instance there is really no reason to tear off plaster and lath just build new walls inside saves a bunch.