I looked at a remodeling job yesterday and I am concerned. This house is a simple 22’ x 32’ gable roof 12/12 pitch, 2×6 rafters 16†o.c. with a 1×10 ridgeboard. The ridge board has 2 splices. The contractor braced the front roof and tore down most of the back for a 24’ wide shed dormer.
The problem is the dormer section, now has about a 3/12 pitch. Saltbox shaped. The new 2×6 rafters are attached to the old ridge board with hangers. I told them they need to put in ceiling joists from the top of the new wall and tie them into the front rafters. They wanted to leave it open and hang a drop ceiling. I’m unsure if this is even expectable. There was no permit pulled yet, I’m wondering what an inspector will say when they do.
Here’s a sketch
Replies
Do you mean the framing work is already done?
What do you mean by "I looked at . . . ?" Are you being called in to quote a fix?
Re the permit, shouldn't one have been pulled before this work?
Yes, the rough framing, roof / siding are done. I was just there with a friend. I've done some construction and designing, was a truss designer for a few years, but never any "adding on" like this. Heres a picture
Now that I've looked at the photo, it is absolutely laughable that they think it will hold. The temporarys are still holding it for cryin' out loud.
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I like how they used the old rafters for the shed roof also.I've done a million of these additions and they have to be done right. You don't need a structural ridge if you have your ceiling joists spanning from the addition wall back to the existing rafters.If you want a cathedral ceiling or clipped ceiling you need a structural ridge, but these have to be designed for this. This clown just framed without any Architectural drawings and probably got some framer for 2.00 s/f to frame it. Or the owner did it himself to save on everything in his mind because he used the same rafters he took out that probably have all bad crowns in them anyway.Propping up the existing roof and ripping off the back part of the roof is nothing either if it's done right by EXPERIENCED FRAMERS!!Straightening out an existing sagging ridge is no big deal either if you’re experienced enough also. If you think about touching this mess, get it engineered. You have a lot of options. You can even put a structural ridge underneath to support if they want it cathedral.
Joe Carola
I told them the inspector would probable make them put in a structural ridge, and ceiling joists tieing into the old rafters might work.
They were cool with the joists but not the beam. The first floor is held up with a steel beam and no posts, I guess thats common with these houses also. I'm guessing that the new joists would add more stresses to the exsisting rafters that they were never designed for. Correct?
Gene Davis, that article is just what I'm looking for. The owners response was that the house has stood fine for the last XX years with no ridge beam, why should that change now. I bet you guys here that alot, but I just don't know how to answer that one. I'm not working on this at all, just looking for discussion.
That roof will fail.....love the "it's been there for years without a structural ridge"................different roof now......run from that job....drop a dime to the inspector to check out the unpermitted work going on.....save a life or three
The bad new is that the ridge line will definitely sag and the shed dormer wall will bow out. No question in my mind about that.
The good news is that they're going to find out about it real soon. Have them have their "framer" take down the temp bracing and throw a level on that new shed dormer wall.
That sad excuse for a rake wall is about as bush league as I've ever seen. The board hangers are gonna love that one.
Where are you that you frame a cathedral ceiling with 2x6 and get enough insulation in there to satisfy code? I got a feeling that this ridge issue is just the beginning of your friend's problems. View Image
Maybe Hawaii?
I have a friend, an auto mechanic, that has no business framing, siding or anything else on a house. He bought a nail gun and thinks he can build with the best of them. He is doing something similar now. He's converting a garage into a room and removed all the ceiling joists and the frame is similar to this, 2x6 rafters and a 1x8 ridge with dozen of knot holes and many cracks. Also no permits. Told him about the ridge, could not care less, told him about the need to insulate, ditto. He's already be caught twice by the inspector (Ashland) in the last two years for doing major work with out a permit, the first told him to get a permit, the second gave him a stop work order saying the roof over the entry violates set backs. The roof 8'x24 is still up but covered for the last year with only grace I&W, so its falling apart. One interesting thing with the garage is there is no venting, no soffit vents and he stuffed the eaves with insulation no propa channels, etc.
He bought the framing nailer after I took my nailer back from him. Let him borrow it for a few weeks, stopped by and asked him if he was using the oil I dropped off witht he gun and he says "what oil". Also told me how he was shooting nails at the neighbor's house that he does not like.
Mike Guertin wrote an article about all of this in the July/August 2006 issue of Tools of the Trade. Pages 24, 25, & 26. If I knew how to scan the article and post it I would. Has drawings, etc. Tyr
I can't open your drawing, but thew verbal was adequate.
There has to be a structural ridge sized and placed with support to carry the laod on it to the foundation, or rafter ties acting as cieling joists sized and installed to resist the loads this roof and walls are carrying.
A short drive will show you several sagging roofs where this detail is ignored. My crew is working today to use jacks, timbers, comealongs, etc to pull a place back together. One wall was two inches out of plumb and the opposite was 3/4" out. The ridge had a 3" sag in it, minimum and every winter it was getting worse.
not every one who can drive a nail and plug in a saw is a carpenter
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
There is a lot of old housing where I live, and added-on shed dormers can be seen everywhere. Sagging roofs are everywhere, too, and I'll bet that it is quite common for "remodeling contractors" to frame these without doing the structural work right.
Maybe it should be in This Old House magazine, or FH, or maybe it already has been done, but this remodeling standard deserves some attention.
"How to cut in and brace for a shed dormer addition."
The first lesson should be to drive around and look at all the swaybacked roofs.
Maybe even right here on this forum, some of those jacklegs could be shown how do do it right, with a photo-sequence thread such as Forrest and Mike are doing over on the Photo Gallery section.
First things first. If your involved get a permitt. The toenship will require approved architectual drawings and you'll have you directions.
So the picture (the .jpg) is what they wanted to leave it as?
But the one you posted (the drawing) is how you recommend it should be?
I hope that's the case because your drawing is exactly what my contractor did 4 years ago. (except mine was a 34' dormer). Although my rafters were 2x8 and they used 2x6 "collar" ties (i think that's the correct term).