Replies

1. 
   Framer | Dec 04, 2003 02:06am | #1

   All you need to do is nail a 2x4 brace from the kneewall down to the ceiling joists and then nail a Simpson Hurricane Tie to the side of the rafter and top plate.

   I hope that you don't tell me that there's no ceiling joists.

   Joe Carola

   
1. 
   Ablesupe | Dec 04, 2003 04:00am | #3

   Joe,

   I always enjoy your responses.In this case of supporting a kneewall what do you think of raising the angled brace above the plate,cutting a birdsmouth and nailing the brace into the side of the rafter-leaving out the hurricane tie? Seems to me it would provide a better brace angle, save a hurricane clip and provide lateral bracing for the rafter  superior to the clip.

2. 
   Ronbaby | Dec 04, 2003 04:43am | #4

   Id think that type of bracing would transfer enough load to crack any drywall or plaster work below....especially if the ceiling joists are bare minimum anyway.

1. 
   Framer | Dec 04, 2003 05:21am | #5

   I've framed alot of houses that way over the years and that's the way the Architects have drawn them and I've never had a complaint from any Customer, Builder or GC about sheetrock cracking befor. Is it right........ well I'm not an Architect or Engineer but it seems to work without any problems.

   I just finishing up farming an addition and I had a kneewall that sat on top of the subfloor of the third floor with the 2x10 joists running perpendicular to the rafters and the plans called for 2c4 braces from the kneewall through the plywood down between the 2x10 joists with a 2x10 block inbetween the joists bolting the 2x4 braces into the block. We just finished doing this yesterday.

   Joe Carola

2. 
   dieselpig | Dec 04, 2003 06:12am | #6

   Ronald,

      Gotta back Joe up here, not that he needs it, but bracing rafter-loaded kneewalls back down to the ceiling joists as described is a very common detail around my parts (MA).  See it most often when a room is squeezed in on top of a garage, kneewalls get the roofline at a more comfortable height, tie the knee walls to the floor joists to resist outward thrust. 

3. 
   lunabean1 | Dec 04, 2003 04:51pm | #8

   Joe,

   Guess what? No ceiling joists. (Though your jpg was really nice.)

1. 
   Framer | Dec 04, 2003 05:19pm | #9

   Guess what? No ceiling joists.

   You have a big problem there.

   Is this a new addition with a cathedral ceiling or is the an existing house that you removed the ceiling joists from?

   What size rafters are they?

   How long are they?

   How high is the main wall to the top plate? 

   How high is the kneewall?

   On new framing that wall should never have a break in it, especially on a Rafter wall.

   On existing framing and you want to remove the ceiling joists, then you have to cut the top plates out and run new studs from the shoe all the way up to the bottom of the kneewall top plate.

   Are there alot of windows in the wall? if so you can cut out the top plate and nail 2 or 3 2x6's along side the king studs from shoe to bottom of the kneewall top plate.

   When I first started framing I made a mistake and did that but the architect said that we can nail and bolt 2x10's on a flat from the subfloor to the top plate of the kneewall only because the kneewall was 2' high.

   This is something that should be looked at by an Architect or Engineer.

   If this is a new addition then it will never pass inspection and you Framer should redue it because it's wrong.

   Joe Carola 

   Edited 12/4/2003 9:20:19 AM ET by Framer

1. 
   lunabean1 | Dec 05, 2003 12:32am | #10

   Thanks for taking the time to answer this.  The mistake here is (unfortunately) mine.  The knee-wall in question is on an angled wall that is between an 8' wall on the north and a gable-end wall on the west.  The angled knee-wall starts at 8' where it meets the north wall, rises about 4' to meet the roofline on the gable-end wall.  Unfortunately again, this was an existing foundation with these darned angles.  The rafters would need to be 21' long for the span at an 8:12 pitch, then gradually get shorter since the angled wall clips the corner.

   I hate admitting to being in over my head, but I'm glad to know I'm not the first to make this mistake.  I guess I should have apprenticed longer.   

2. 
   Piffin | Dec 04, 2003 03:45am | #2

   There are some other solutions in the Simpson catalouge

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   andybuildz | Dec 04, 2003 08:17am | #7

   You can buy a long threaded rod that first gets bolted into the floor then up through the top plate of the knee wall and tightened down at the end of the knee wall

   Be well

              andy

   My life is my practice!

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM