Hi all,
Are they “Child Protection Devices,” or “Adult Insanity Inducing Devices”? Not only can I not get into any cabinet whose door is under the 3 foot mark, we’ve had quite an electrical problem as a result of these little buggers. I’ll leave the cabinet aspect for other potential new fathers to ponder and focus on my electrical problem.
About a week ago “Wife” begins to panic that “Son” (who now moves with incredible alacrity) will stick “Finger” into “Socket”. So, out come the millions of plastic socket protectors. About the same time, though noticed later that day, the computer conks out and the flourescent light in the laundry is burned out (it’s plugged into a receptacle not hard-wired). Almost concurrently I replaced the underside light in our microwave upstairs which some idiot prior owner has plugged into a 15A general lighting/recept. circut (read – “way over loaded and scheduled to be placed on it’s own 20A circut soon”). As soon as I re-plugged it in after replacing the light the circut blew, was switched back on and no problemo. Also, keep in the back of your minds that we’ve been having a lot of lightening here lately.
The real kicker then begins about a day or two after the socket protectors go in. Our ADT alarm goes off about mid-night (why is it always the middle of the night?) saying the power is out (which it isn’t). We call, and apparantly it had been on battery power for two days and the lady says the recept. must be out and this often happens with lightening. Hmmm. I say, maybe all these problems (computer, laundry light, ADT) are related. Did I cause it by tripping the circut breaker and only part of the circut came back (wasn’t sure if all this was on one circut or not?) Is it lightning? Etc. Then the final straw, our alternate freezer in the laundry (a small one) is out and we only just noticed yesterday, ackk! No more meat for us.
So, I say we’re getting an electritian out here tomorrow, and to help him out I go around with my circut tester and start mapping out which recept.s in out bsement are out and which aren’t. To do so I must remove child protectors. Get all done and notice there’s one I didn’t see in the corner. Wife is standing there cleaning closet next to laundry room, I remove upper protector and all of a sudden, “Hey the light’s on!”, and computerized ADT lady says “AC Power Restored – Battery Charging – Reset System.” What the heck?!? I pushed it back in slowly and everything still worked. Apparently my wife pushed this thing in funny, or more likely, the recept. is bad and somehow this broke the camels back.
Here’s the question, 1) Has this ever happened to anybody else? 2) Should I replace the recepticle just in case? Thanks for reading the story and good luck to those other new dads.
Erich
Replies
Sounds like a good story for Greatest Moments. Probably not a bad idea to replace that outlet.
Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
My guess is that that they used "back stab" connections. It is a CHEAP way of making up connections. Cheap in more ways than one. The wires just stick in the back of the recptacle and spring finger is SUPPOSE to make contact.
Either that or the terminals are loose or the pigtails are loose. But there is nothing in the recptacle that could affect downstrain outlets other than the back stab wiring.
But those are probably 39 cent outlets so replace them at the same time with some with the nylon bodies, about $1.50
May have "flexed" the wiring and created an open either in the nutral or hot leg. You may get lucky and only have to "tighten" some thing up. You may have a broken wire inside of the insulation and the flexing is making that open.
Keep the insanity... It'll help here.
Welcome erich and fill the profile in some.
When the rug rocket gets a little older you won't be able to get into any thing above 3 feet either.
Definately replace the receptical.
As stated, probably used push-in-the-back connections, which are notoriously unreliable.
Turn the power off, take the outlet out, if it uses push-in connections disconnect wires and toss outlet, use wire nuts to 'pigtail short lengths of wire to the existing wires (this ties the wires together before the outlet so that if an outlet goes bad it doesn't effect anything downstream), then connect a good 20 amp outlet using the screws on the side.
All the original wiring in my house uses push-ins. Cheap outlets that didn't even have screws as an option. No pigtails used anywhere. Whenever I'm working in an area, I pull and toss these. Then put in pigtails and better outlets to avoid future problems.
Those old cheap outlets in my house are so worn out that cords come out very easily. It's worth the trouble to replace them just so things stay plugged in. <G>
use wire nuts to 'pigtail short lengths of wire to the existing wires (this ties the wires together before the outlet so that if an outlet goes bad it doesn't effect anything downstream),
Thank you for the new knowledge.
SamTSleepless in Columbia. Diurnal rhythm? What songs did they do?
Surprised that's new knowledge to you. But. . . .have read a couple articles by professional electricians that say this is the first thing they check for.
When I was taught we were taught to pigtail everything so that if an outlet failed in didn't affect anything else.
Can't blame the pros for just shoving the wires in the back, it's very very quick, and allowed by code (why I don't understand).
I'd recommend to always use the screws. But be aware, some of the best quality outlets available, you also shove the wire in the back. But, then you tighten a screw which pinches the wire with a metal plate inside the outlet. These outlets are top quality, and you get an extremely reliable connection this way, because the wires are clamped. It's just when you rely on the spring finger pressure in a $.35 outlet to produce an electrical connection that you have serious reliability issues.
Oh, and be aware, that as you add pigtails the way you fold the wires into the box becomes more important as they take up space which if not done right can make it difficult to get everything back in the box.
Also get some green wirenuts. They have a hole in the top that allows you to cut all but one ground wire shorter. The long wire runs through the hole in the nut and connects to the outlet or fixture. This saves space, provides a reliable ground path, and eliminates one pigtail. But beware, many places don't carry these (i.e. one local lumber yard does, but Home Depot doesn't)
Replacing an outlet is simple, but I'd recommend getting a good home wiring book and studying it if you're not familiar with this.
P.S. The HD how to book, which I got as a gift once, isn't worth much.
Hi Billy,
I'm definately going to replace the #$^@#$^ recepticle. I was wondering though at your suggestion to replace it with a 20A piece though. Can you put a 20A recepticle on a 15A circut? Re the pigtail deal, that's a given for me anytime I replace one of these guys, I wish this whole mess had been wired in parallel before, that's for sure - that would have saved my freezer! Oh well. Again, I appreciate the advice! Erich
Now, it I understand this right, you have a computer, microwave, and a small freezer on a 15 amp lighting circuit.
I wouldn't be comfortable having any of these on a 15 amp circuit, much less sharing one.
So, no I wouldn't put a 20 amp plug on a 15 amp circuit. Someone may plug in a device that needs more power then the circuit can deliver. For instance, my pressure washer has a 2HP motor that draws 17 Amps. If I mistakenly plug it into a normal extension cord, it'll bog down or trip the breaker. It only works well with a 12 gauge, or larger, extension cord. (I need to swap it out to a 20 amp style plug so I can't accidentally plug it in the wrong place).
I recommend 20 amp plugs because they're better built, you get a more consistent connection when you plug things in, plugs don't fall out as easily, ect..
Again though, if any of the things listed above are on a 15 amp circuit, I'd be looking for some way to rewire that area and make it a 20 amp circuit.
??Is the wire to the outlets themselves 14 gauge or 12 gauge? This is important as let's say they tapped into a light box that's accessable from the attic. If they ran 12 gauge wire to the outlet from there, then all you need to do is get a new 20 amp circuit into the attic and tie into that outlet with a junction box. If they pulled 14 gauge to the outlets, well you're SOL and it could be a big expensive PITA project to get these to 20 amp circuits. Or, to add some new outlets that are wired for 20 amps.
Actually if you get a qaulity recpatacle the guts are same in the 15 amp as the 20 amp versions. Just the different face.
Get the ones that are nylon faces, have the back compression wiring, and cost about $1.50-2.00
Good advice. It's just the stores I shop at carry the cheap cheap ones, or the 20 amp ones. Unless I go to the electrical supply house on my lunch hour I don't have the option of picking up a quality 15 amp outlet. But for this gentleman, it may be the best advice.
Personally, I bought a box of good 20 amp outlets new off ebay for $1 ea. with shipping. I've been gradually installing them as I work on things. Eventually, I'll get rid of all the cheap series wired outlets in my house.
Hi again,
Don't feel bad about being confused, the wiring in my house is very odd. I think that's because one of the old owners was quite an overzealous DIYer. Don't get me wrong, I'm one too, but I do a ton of reading on how to do it the RIGHT way. The microwave is headed for its own dedicated 20A circut in a few weeks (it's on a 15A general lighting/recept. circut now - not the same one as the freezer and computer but still overloaded). The other stuff does share the same circut and I've been thinking about running a new one for the 'puter itself. I really appreciate your thinking on the replacement recepticles, if I can't find the quality 15A I might opt for a 20A. Thanks again! Erich
If you want quality 15 amp recepticals, skip the HD's and local hardware stores, and get into a true electrical supply store. The place the electricians shop. You should have no trouble finding them there. Don't put a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit. A future tradesman may assume there's enough power there to run his big floor sander or something when there isn't.
Likewise when plumbing, go to a true plumbing supply store. Usually, they have better quality parts, often they're as cheap or at least competitive, and the free advice I've gotten from plumbers while waiting in line is worth a good bit as well. You're much more likely to get sold junk, the wrong parts, stuff you don't need, and get bad advice at the box stores.
Whenever possible I like to put freezers on their own circuit. Probably overkill, but I prefer it. I also like to plug a nightlight or something visible in the outlet with the freezer so you can see at a glance if it has power. My freezer I hung a CO detector on the wall where it was visible. No #'s on the detector and I know there's problems.
Billy, That's genius! A night-light matched with the freezer on the same recepticle. Gosh, that would have saved us about a hundred bucks in food for, what, $3! Thanks again!
Erich
Would it have? I wonder if you would notice something that isn't there as fast as you would notice something that wasn't before the power failure. Like a freezer alarm you could buy for like ten bucks?
I agree. Too many "safety" devices don't work because they become automatic.
In the past I have seen software that require about 3 acknowledges of "are you sure" before it allows you to delete something.
So what happens is you start to automatically click 3 times without even reading what it says.
For about $5-10 you can get a battery operated powerfail alarm that will go off if the power is off.