On our high end custom homes we spec. 3/4″ Advantech on the roof. Our framing contractor is not too excited about installing it. The roof has a 10/12 – 16/12 pitch. Has anyone developed any efficient techniques for installing this stuff on the roof without wanting to cuss out the g.c. and go to the house?
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Replies
Why 3/4" on the roof and not 5/8" is it code?
I've seen it before specked on some plans but when I called the architect they said it was a mistake.
We use it sometimes when we're tying into an existing roof that has 3/4 on additions but not for new construction.
If you want the 3/4 on the roof and the framing contractor does all your homes and sheaths them then tell him to get a power ladder like the roofers use and send the sheats up one at a time. Over the years I've seen sheathing crews do that. Other then that does Advantech make 5/8"?
Does the framer have a Lull that he can just lift the sheathing up to the roof?
Joe Carola
Edited 6/27/2004 10:51 am ET by Framer
Big hail or meteorites expected?
Joe H
Man I sure wouldn't want to be up there horsing that stuff around up there on the roof.
I've only seen one guy use 3/4 on a roof - A homeowner building an addition. He thought his old roof was 1/2" ply and was spongy. So he went with 3/4 T&G OSB.
In the end, he realized it was really overkill and wished he hadn't done it.
The only thing I could imagine making it any easier would be a forklist to lift the stuff up there so you didn't have to take it up manually.
The young man knows the rules but the old man knows the exceptions. [Oliver Wendell Holmes]
Guilty.
Used 3/4 inch osb t&g on a 12x16 shed roof once.
Little cutting and the price wasnt that much more. Fed it up there from top of van so it wasn't bad.
But it was unneeded.
Seemed like a good idea when I did it.
be a board
I used square edge 3/4" ply on my roof, with blocking under all the edges. The original rafters were 24" o.c., code required me to do in-betweens, which makes it 12" o.c. I also used aliphatic resin glue on top of the rafters and blocks. I hauled the ply up to the roof using C-clamps tied to 5/8" manilla line. For placing the sheets on the slope, I always had them saftied with two lines and two clamps until i had nails in the bottom edge. And I stopped working when the afternoon wind came up. Not fun.
The reason for the thick ply is to give the copper roofing nails plenty of material to hold in.
-- J.S.
Your contractor is so right.
I used it on every floor of ther new additions I framed...Almost 2000sq ft. and its amazing stuff.
Price wise and durability wise.
Cutting it is a bit of a nightmare with sharp shrapnel in your face and the weight is pretty intense.
3/4 on the roof?
Whats your reason for that...sepecially with such a nice pitch.
Go with 5/8th CDX on the roof and don't be sucha pain in the arse....lol
Be well
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I'm just the super so I don't get to decide what kind of sheathing goes on the roof but the architect specd. 3/4" plywood and the g.c. went one step further and decided to use the Advantech.
I've got to assume it's a quality/ strength issue. As I mentioned it's a high end custom home that will have slate on the roof. Framing is 2' on center and it's about 8000 sq. ft of roof.
Getting the Advantech on the roof isn't the problem, we do have a telescopic handler for that. I just wanted to know if anybody had any suggestions for banging it together(it being t&g and all) other than the old fashioned way. Does gravity help it go together a little easier?
The last job we did with Advantech on the roof the framing contractor complained because he thought he should get paid more for using the t&g sheathing on the roof but his employees said it was easier than using plywood and plywood clips!
I've got to assume it's a quality/ strength issue. As I mentioned it's a high end custom home that will have slate on the roof. Framing is 2' on center and it's about 8000 sq. ft of roof.
It's neither a quality or strength issue. Ity's just over kill. There's thousands of houses that have 1/2" plywood and 5/8" with slate on them with no problems. It also doesn't matter that it's a high end home either. It doesn't make sence at all. Tell them to sheath the walls with 3/4 also because it's a high end home or frame all the walls with 2x8's.
Sometimes architects make mistakes and the GC has a right to question them especially when using 3/4 on the roof for new construction. I've never seen it done and I'm sure a lot of other people never see it done. It's bad enough with the t&g on the subfloor using a sledgehammer but using t&g on a roof has got to be a pain in the a$$. I've also seen plans that call for 3/4 on the walls. Call up the architect and they say it's a mistake but they have to make the change not the gc.
Joe Carola
Hey Joe....I think they may be putting a platform on the roof for Stan to land on.......didnt he mention that?
PS....I hated banging the Advantech together on my floors.
I think I did a lil' over five trillion boards here.least thats how it felt.
BE floored
andy
PSS....I hear theres a contract that Haliburton got soon as the Iraq rebuilding is over to sheath the Eiffel tower with dbl 3/4" Advantech using deck screws and PL Premium.The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
If high end & quality are the reason for the Industrial Strength roof, should it be 2' centers for the framing?
That seems kinda low end save a buck..........
Joe H
Joe
Uhhhh yeh.they may save less than a half a dozen rafters.
And the times it takes to bang togetehr and cut Advan surely will cancel all that out.
I think someone has stock in Advantech on that gig.
a
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
How are you Andy?
How's the addition going?
Stan Foster is the MAN!
I told everyone I know about what he did and they love him including me. If he doesn't get that job we'll drop some 3/4" Advantech on that guys roof.
The best thing you can do to make 3/4" T&G go in easy is to learn how to do the splits so you can stand on the tongue as your hitting the 2x4 with the sledge but that might be hard on the roof..................;-)
Joe Carola
Oh yeah,
The exterior walls are being framed with 2x8's(it's an aesthetic stucco/plaster thing). And the g.c.(my boss) is the one who's choosing to use Advantech which apparently means he agrees with the architect that 3/4" is best in this situation.
I rarely automatically take the advice of people who go around saying things like "thousands of houses have been built with that such and such... or I've been doing it like that for twenty years". I've learned a thing or two in the years that I've been building that just make good common sense that almost nobody is doing. Or things that people in the building sciences have reccomended that also make good sense but that people who use the above phrases insist are a bunch of crap. I'm not saying that using 3/4" Advantech on the roof makes good sense or is even necessary but many situations in homebuilding are not like others and deserve a look rather than just spitting out some standard answer.
In other words, y'all are awfully judgemental and didn't really provide and answer or any insight into my initial question.
Insightful comments? What were you looking for? Many have said use young and strong labor with proper safety precautions. That's the only way that it will get done. It will be heavy no matter how you cut it (unless you rip it in half).
Jon Blakemore
Scooter, what part of the US you building in??
Brian_____________________________HomeBase________ Kitchen & Bath Builders, LLC
Brian Roberts, Manager
Western North Carolina
We have used Advantech t&g on a few roofs and while it is a great product, it is a pain in the butt to install compared to square edge. We usually only use it the way Piffin describes, where we are installing a low slope rubber roof directly over the Advantech. I understand your interest in putting the slate over 3/4" sheathing. I would do the same thing. I doubt I would use t&g.
If you do, you should pay your framer a premium to install it. Especially if the roof is cut up with angles. I would demand it. Fooling around with t&g on a complex roof wastes time. The guys who felt t&g saved time over clips must have just installed the product on a straight gable that was a 6/12. After doing their last clip job with 1/2" yellow pine cdx.
To answer your question, no, there aren't any newfangled tools or methods to put t&g Advantech that weighs 78 lbs. per sheet, on a nightmarishly steep roof. Yes, gravity will help.
Did your GC also recommend gluing and screwing ?
carpenter in transition
Scooter, you said, "I've got to assume it's a quality/ strength issue. As I mentioned it's a high end custom home that will have slate on the roof. Framing is 2' on center and it's about 8000 sq. ft of roof."
I said, "It's neither a quality or strength issue. It's just over kill. There's thousands of houses that have 1/2" plywood and 5/8" with slate on them with no problems." because you thought it was a QUALITY or STRENGTH issue and it's not. I was just trying to let you know that there are thousands of houses that are built like that with no problems. What's wrong with saying that?
My mistake is when when I reread your post and you wrote, " Framing is 2' on center and it's about 8000 sq. ft of roof.". I didn't pick up on that because we never stick frame 2' o.c. here.
I realize houses are built different everywhere and I've learned that on these forums especially stick framing 2' o.c. Never heard that before but I guess it's alright and I'm sure the people that do stick frame 2' o.c. will say you don't need 3/4". I wouldn't consider it Quality on a high end home though. But one thing that I'm telling you is that I've never heard of anyone talking about new construction sheathing roofs with 3/4 and your talking about T&G.
The point that I was trying to make was that in my eyes thinking 16" o.c. there's no need for it and when I said , "Why don't we frame walls with 2x8's and 3'4" sheathing on the walls." It's just not necessary to look and see that a house has 2x8 walls and 3/4 on a roof or walls. Although I'm framing an addition that the front wall is 2x8's because they're 22' high with rafters. For me that doesn't show quality. If your GC wants to use it and it's not code let him(I should say the Framers) knock themselvels out.
Joe Carola
Edited 6/28/2004 6:23 pm ET by Framer
I'm not sure if I said it but they are roof trusses not stick framing.
I'm not trying to be a smart #### I was just feeling like i was being attacked by those initial replies.
I'm the superintendent, I just build what they tell me.
I'm not trying to be a smart #### I was just feeling like i was being attacked by those initial replies.
Welcome to BT....
so relax, it's the way of life here!!!
Hey Caveman welcome to BT yurself...
I see yur the new guy on the block... Ya should feel right at home we got a Dinasour, hillbillies, city slickers, assortment of rednecks, throw backs to the 60's, some that are still residing under their rocks, high horse riders and a a real down to earth all around bunch of folks that's good to know... Did I leave anybody out.
Glad you already seem to have a handle on "here at BT" It helps...
Have ya done any cabinets with "Piffin Screws" and is that Tyvek on yur attic vented house...
Watch out... The profile cop might get ya.. if he some how finds out you didn't fill in yur profile...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Edited 6/29/2004 4:37 am ET by IMERC
Thanks
Your description of the players here explains the disparity amongst all.. so which hat do you wear?
Glad you already seem to have a handle on "here at BT" It helps...
Key word "disparity"...if you can separate the throw-backs from the keepers, this place puts on one he11 of a show. Appears to me that your one of the star performers too. <g>
No Piffen screws...magnetic strips & metal studs
No Tyveck...shrinkwrap is the way to go
I'm bald... No hat...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Rez.. you got another customer here...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
44604.25
I'm forgetting no blood from turnips.
Life's too short.
you quittin' on us?????
Not the ROARin' rez...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
"The fact that I attempted a profile crusade, albeit short, coupled with the knowledge that I did once use 3/4" on a shed roof, has given me pause for a time of introspection dealing with the question of my sanity."
Excert from the rough draft of the future bestseller 'Diary of a Mad Builder', soon to be made a major motion picture.
Wrong froum to deal with yur sanity... I'd try to help but I'm next door in one of the other rubber rooms....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
y'all are awfully judgemental and didn't really provide and answer
My judgement is that it's easy to sit in an office and design a 'thing'......think you're clever, a high end builder and all that crap..............
.but to a grunt in the field (who knows what works and understands the parameters of good building practice) this 3/4 roof would be total nonsence. I wouldn't do it.......if told to I'd quit the job.
OK, but before you quit, tell us what you sheathe a roof with when rafters are on 24 centers and it is to have a slate top, in snow country.
I'm with you Bob ...
and the GC here ...
before my framing sub quit ... I'd laugh him off the job for crying about lifting some 3/4 ply ...
what's next ... my block layer gonna cry because those are too heavy too?
plumber gonna complain because those torches are hot??
the contract says 3/4 ... so get the damn 3/4 up there ...
24 oc?... sounds like a comfy amount of overkill to me ...
the day "new construction homes" are taken as the end all and be all ...
it's all over!
glad I remodel where the unexpected is expected ....
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Been a while since you sheathed a roof, huh?
Not saying I'd whine about the weight one bit.....
As long as you didn't whine about the bill....one bit.
Edited 6/30/2004 7:09 pm ET by dieselpig
have a slate top, in snow country.
Although I spent 8 years building in Alaska snow country.....and 20 some years other places......I must confess to never applying a slate roof. The only slate shingles I ever see is at the flea market.
Like my Swedish helper friend (with a green card)would always say when I'd tell him to do something. "Why?"
"For Christ's sake Klas, just do it! "
"I can't till I know why"..........
He quit a hundred times, always trudged his old van back up the mountain the next day............great friend, loved the guy....and his independance...........Now he's rich in Sweden and I'm trying to always borrow money from him.
I've been a grunt for more time than I've sat at a desk and I don't know as much as I thought I did. You probably don't either. Parameters? We don't need no stinkin' parameters! Shut up and build!
Shut up and build!
Some one told me to shut up and build.........I'd quit.
I like Advanteck but 3/4"T&G is overkill except on lowslope rooofs to be done with membranes. One man can handle a 5/8" sheet with just a little grunt, but 3/4" will ofetn take two men handling it to be safe from injury
For a slate roof, i am thinkiung the advantech is actually a liability because the greater density means an extra tap of three from the slater's hammer whicjh increases the odds of broken slates and a more expensive or lower quality finished roof product. Ply or boarding borads would be the better choice under slate.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
3/4 is a bit much and I've found Advantex to be a bit slippery on the roof. As far as going together Advantex goes together nice and easy.Just get some strong young boys up there to put it together.Vince Carbone
I am intrigued by this thread. If you have the time, tell us about all the other things that are thrown into these high end homes.
Up a joist size? 1" floor sheathing?
An extra 1/4" ply subfloor on top of the 3/4", then glued and screwed?
Cast iron waste lines?
Something like "grand manor shangle" on the roof? Maybe slate? 24 gage standing seam steel?
German cabinetry, like Poggenpohl?
I like those glass mosaics in the tile baths, at about $120 / sf.
Why hide the extra wood on the roof, where the customer cannot see it?
he did say slate.
Funny, I lived in a house built in 1709..stone with pole rafters about 3' OC..split lath on 8'' centers..and slate roof.
Do ya think they woulda used advantek back then?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Cast Iron Waste Lines? Yep!
Scooter,
just built a church and the designer called for 3/4" sheathing everywhere. including the roof.about 50 sheets. we used cdx and not t&g. roff was 10/12. it pretty much sucked the only good thing was we built a new deck that in line with the new church roof so we had a work platform. but luging them after we had the first course went on from a scaffold was tough but we just grunted a lot and got it done.
i also saw a scaffold while in fla. that was set up on roof. a kind of work ing plat form on the roof. looked interesting.
but as we all know advatek is a bit heavier than cdx.
so hope your framing contractor has some stong backs on the crew.
just another day in paradise
G.E. Ely Construction
Ocracoke, NC
The framers started sheathing the roof today. They put up maybe 10 sheets before they had to quit sheathing to frame a hip between the trusses. I didn't here any complaints except when the cut-man screwed up. So far so good!
We have used 5/8 t&g and 3/4 cdx before but would not do it again unless it was unconditionally specified in the contract. If I was going to use it on a roof, it would be for a slate roof. If you are spending that much for the roof, why not make sure you have the best base possible. I have fixed a number of slate roofs and it seems that they all have had sheathing problems, which made the repairs quite difficult.
Too often we accept building to code as an appropriate standard and forget that it is the minimum standard. If I was twenty years younger and could still easily toss around those 3/4 sheets, I would prefer that higher standard of quality. My present age and a tired back makes me ache with the 5/8's now.