Replies

1. 
   Schelling | Jun 20, 2006 01:45am | #1

   I don't know about you specific thinset. Maybe someone can answer about that.

   The usual difference in tile size and thinset is that you need larger ridges of thinset with a larger tile. The notched trowels have different size notches which determine the amount of thinset on the substrate. The largest size I have is 3/8x3/8 and I use this for larger tiles.

   To test: Spread thinset over an area large enough for a tile, set the tile, then remove the tile and look at the back. It shouldn't be real easy to remove the tile and the back will show complete coverage.

2. 
   FNbenthayer | Jun 20, 2006 02:05am | #2

   I'd use a latex modified thinset and use spacers or nails to keep the tiles from sliding down the wall (remove before grouting).

    

    

    

    

   The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
   - Fyodor Dostoyevski

3. 
   ClaysWorld | Jun 20, 2006 11:37pm | #3

   Let your fingers do the walking. I found this and now I'll go find a little more and get back with you.

   Type 1™ View Image

   View Image View Image View Image View Image Professional-Grade Floor and Wall Tile Adhesive Type 1 is a professional-grade, traditional, nonflammable, organic adhesive for setting impervious, vitreous, semivitreous and nonvitreous tile over gypsum drywall (walls only), cement board, exterior-grade plywood, concrete and masonry block. This adhesive is used for interior applications only. Type 1 meets or exceeds ANSI A136.1, Type 1 requirements.

4. 
   xosder11 | Jun 21, 2006 12:28am | #4

   I'm going to assume that the adhesive you were looking at was a mastic. I'm basing this guess on the note that it is for 6" x 6" or less. There is a reason for this. Mastic adhesives are an organic adhesive that never fully "dries". It also needs a longer time to dry than thinset. When you cover the mastic with a tile, the only place the moisture can eventually escape is around teh edges. As you can imagine, the length of time it would take, if ever. for the mastic to dry would be much longer for an 18" sq. tile rather than a 6" sq.

   Mastics, as a rule, are only for applications that will recieve little or no moisture. If you were going with a smaller tile, I would think that a masticc would work for a tiled backsplash. But...

   I'm not a tile setter, but I can tell you that many of them won't use a mastic for any circumstances.

   For your case, you probably want a thinset that you mix out of the bag. But others will come along who know more than I.

5. 
   JeffBuck | Jun 21, 2006 02:26am | #5

   that's a mastic.

   take it back and get a good modified thinset ... powder ... in a bag ... that U mix yourself.

   Mapei is a fine brand ... my personal choice ... so I'd look for their Ultra Flex or Ultralite. The new Ultralite would be ideal for this application. Lotsa initial grip ... very little slippage. It's a light color ... so it works with all colors of tile/grout.

   Jeff

       Buck Construction

    Artistry In Carpentry

        Pittsburgh Pa

6. 
   Dinosaur | Jun 21, 2006 02:58am | #6

   Take that mastic back to Lowes and tell them not to allow someone who knows less than the customers to make any recommendations. Mastic is not for wet areas. Buy a latex-modified thinset mortar (there are many brands; Versaflex is one).

   Then (if you don't already have one) go to the trowel section and buy a ¼"x¼" square-notched, rectangular steel trowel, the kind with a handle on top and notches on one end and one side; get one about 4½"x12". Marshalltown makes good ones. Don't get a cheap plastic or aluminum 'adhesive spreader'; you're going to have to back-butter those big muthas and a decent trowel will make it a lot easier.

   If you're going to set tile all the way to the floor behind the counter, use plastic spacers to keep the tiles from sliding down while the thinset dries.

   If you are not going all the way down,  I'd suggest you buy a length of aluminum tile moulding, and then screw it to the wall below where the tile will be set so that the finish face of the moulding is facing up. Set the bottom edge of the tiles right on the finish face, opposite to the way you usually use a tile moulding. This way, the screw heads won't hold the tile off the wall.

   The moulding will act like a shelf and prevent those big tiles from drifting downwards while the thinset dries; it'll also give you a dead-straight line to set that one row to (position the moulding using a laser or a long level and a chalkline). You can leave the mounding there (it'll be hidden behind the counter) or pull it afterwards; it doesn't matter.

   Don't use plastic moulding; it flexes too much. With a metal moulding, you'll be okay with one screw in each stud even if they're at 24" centers. Pan-head or truss-head screws will work best.

   Dinosaur

   How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
   low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
   foolish men call Justice....
   

   

7. 
   MikeCallahan | Jun 21, 2006 08:27am | #7

   A kitchen backsplash does not get the pounding of floor tiles and countertops or the moisture that a shower would get. You can use thinset right on the drywall without using hardiebacker in backsplash applications usually. A kitchen backsplash is about the only time I might not use hardiebacker. I think the cheapest thinset mortar would be OK. Just backbutter everything. I use a jointer and a scrap to get a nice straightedge piece to build on. I can just screw the scrap to the wall and throw it away when I am done. Use a torpedo level on top of each tile to keep it in line. Depending on your grout spacing I like to use coins for shims. Pennies nickels and dimes stacked in combinations used as shims can level the tiles until the thinset hardens. Two nickels is about 3/16th, two dimes is 1/8th".... and so on. Tiles are never perfectly square so variable shims are a help when stacking tiles on a wall. This is just the way I do it and I doubt anyone else does it this way.

   Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.
1. 
   BryanSayer | Jun 21, 2006 06:46pm | #8

   I know some intallers back butter when doing backsplashes or fireplace surrounds, what have you. Anyway, what is the advantage of back buttering vs just applying the adhesive of choice to the wall?

1. 
   Dinosaur | Jun 21, 2006 08:44pm | #9

   You generally back-butter big tiles so you can hold back the thinset a bit away from the edges. You want to prevent it squeezing out into the grout space. A ¼x¼ notched trowel lays on thinset a quarter of an inch thick. That's a lot of thickness. If you trowel the thinset onto the wall or floor, any ridges of mortar that wind up between tiles stands at least a quarter-inch proud of the substrate, and thus has to be raked out or it will screw you up when you do the grout.

   Another reason is so you can set to a snapped chalk-line on the substrate (hard to see a chalk-line under a layer of thinset!). Backsplashes and fireplace surrounds tend to be isolated areas of tile up in the middle of a wall, so it's common to work to a snapped line instead of using the floor or wall as a reference (which isn't a good idea anyway, but that's another discussion). But today with  cheap laser levels available to virtually everybody, that reason doesn't apply so much anymore. I would not back-butter a backsplash made of normal sized (4x4 or 6x6) wall tiles; I'd just set to my laser line right over the adhesive.Dinosaur

   How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....

2. 
   CapnMac | Jun 22, 2006 12:25am | #11

   what is the advantage of back buttering

   The one advantage Dino di not tell you is that back buttering means you know the thinset is in full contact with the tile.  This is something that might not be very obvious in thise 1 tile = entire backsplash situation; the least irregularity in the wall that an 18 x 18 tile will "span" over invites hollows or no-adhesions spaces. 

   Which are always where the tile will fail, later, on a holiday eve, when you answer the ringing phone, and both parties have a house-full of folks to cope with ('cause that Murphy guy is a right &^*#$#&$#^ <g>).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

8. 
   Frankie | Jun 21, 2006 09:07pm | #10

   Basically all the answers you have been given are correct and fine advice.

   However, this is just a kitchen backsplash. No one will be walking on it. No one will be leaning against it. It won't be getting much water splashe don it (unless you have monkeys washing your dishes).

   What you have will probably work for your application. Ideal? Absolutely not! But probably fine. Expect a longer drying time before you grout.

   Use wood shims to get ehe tile off the countertop when setting. Remove them when time to grout. Consider caulking this seam prior to grouting - day before.

   Just some thoughts,

   Frankie

   Exasperate your vegetables until exhausted; disturb your chestnuts in milk until queasy, then disappoint.

   Arabella Weir as Minty Marchmont - Posh Nosh