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Discussion Forum

Advice on paver patio up to house

Waters | Posted in General Discussion on February 8, 2007 06:11am

HO has a paver patio going in and the landscape designer has the pavers meeting the back of the house right at the same level as the patio door threshold.. up near the subfloor height.  Wayyy above grade.

She wants me to build some PT ‘boxes’ out from the wall/foundation so the patio doesn’t meet the house/siding but at the patio door she wants the pavers right up against the house.

I told her the pavers shouldn’t really butt into the house anywhere–PAC NW rains a LOT here–but well below the mudsill IMHO, but if she had to do it this way, to at least butt them in BELOW the door threshold to allow some type of flashing.

? is, am I being too conservative?

She’ll have me replace the bottom two courses of siding, which are damaged anyway.  The Pressure Treated 4×6 or 8″ boxes I’ll build, about 8″ out from the foundation wall will isolate the paver patio and keep things away from the siding.  (What would you stake those in with, permanently?)  But where she wants the patio to meet the house, right at or under the threshold of the patio door, I’m not sure of the best way to waterproof this area.  The house has no Eaves so water WILL get in there between the house and the patio.

Can someone point me in the right direction?  Waterproof membrane, as in tile showers?  Grace Ice and Water barrier?

Am I out of line to suggest the patio should be much lower?  They’re trying to get it to slope from the house adequately and can’t really dig it down lower due to bedrock.

Help!  The landscapers are waiting on me…

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  1. dovetail97128 | Feb 08, 2007 06:54am | #1

    First You are correct in your assumption that what is being proposed is wrong. Make that clear from the get go and make sure you will not be held responsible. They are making a heaven for termites, carpenter ants and rot.
    Now if forced into it I would try this.
    Strip off the siding down to the sheathing, as well as remove the patio door frame and all.
    Obtain a pan for the patio door.
    Get some I&W sheild or perhaps a product used to seal concrete walls.. there are peel and stick sheets much like I&WS. Some of these use a primer to help adhesion.
    Cut your sheet goods so that a flap will extend up over the door opening and into the opening twice the depth of the sill and pan. Fold the 1/2 that protrudes beyond the inner line of the sill and fold it back on itself so that you have a sticky side down and a sticky side up. (You might even find a double sided version of I&W.. try a roofing supply house)
    Detail the corners with uncut folds ( like a shower pan).
    Set your pan and replace the door.
    At the house face the I&W should extend at least several inches beyond the sides of the raised pavers at the sill . Cover the I&W with metal flashing to protect it.
    Make sure they have sand for drainage under the pavers.
    Write a disclaimer that the work is good for only as long as it takes your truck to leave the driveway. ;-)

    Best I can offer.

    1. Waters | Feb 08, 2007 07:19am | #2

      I come to this site most often to know that I am on the right track. 

      Thanks for the confidence!

       

      1. dovetail97128 | Feb 08, 2007 07:59am | #3

        No problem . I am also a "Duck ", so I understand the water issue very well. ;-)

        1. Waters | Feb 08, 2007 06:27pm | #4

          McMinn. I see.  I'm actually a Badger/Cheesehead posing as a Duck...  Thanks again,

          pat

          1. BrianWI | Feb 08, 2007 09:43pm | #5

            hello,

            landscaper here paying dues for offseason basement remodel advice. also cheesehed.

            with the babyboomers coming of age ADA egress is becoming spec'ed often. I have often used the aforementioned weather profing product. I also mix a batch of boric acid/water to treat the wood a day before application. i usually run the barrier 2-3 feet beyond the proposed "ramp". and 6 in up behind siding and tuck tight under threshold. as for drainage I dig down to the foundation drainage and come up to my sand with clear gravel, this will keep the house dry. if the threashold protrudes the sill it is wise to shore it out with treated lumber. so the movement of the pavers does not iterfeer with the threshold.

            also I would not build the boxes let the landscaper deal with grade changes. and if i built myself boxes i would not fasten to the building.

            still with all of this, would not extend warranty past tailights, but it is how I would do my grama's house.

            brianWI

            ps termites freeze here but carp ants dont.

          2. Waters | Feb 09, 2007 06:43am | #7

            Where in Wisco are you?  Born in Fort Atkinson...

            Aformentioned waterproofing product--you mean Grace I&W?

            2-3 feet beyond the ramp--you mean laterally beyond the slope of the paver bed?

            The rest I get.  The landscapers want the boxes built to have something to compact their gravel to.

            The patio is quite 'up in the air' relative to the house.

            Cheers,

            P

          3. BrianWI | Feb 09, 2007 03:58pm | #8

            in between appleton and greenbay (kaukauna).

            they wany you to build retaining wall boxes? i wouldnt. if my job needed treated planters there they would be 6x6 stacked with a width twice the height or deadmen run under the pavers or 2 boxes built as one. 2x boxes will fail (3yrs+-)

            i think thats what the stuff is called I go to able and explain the stuff everytime. they are a concrete supply place. the stuff is almost exactly what asphault roofers are using instead of a starter strip. there is adhesive on the back but i usually tar it on the adhesive sticks only to wood well masonry a little and dry tar poor.

            and yes you are thinking right. your prep will be 4-6' wider than the "ramp"

            here anything higher than 12" needs a handrail. you can get around this by having a nonpedestrian area parrallel the ramp wich is what I almost always do.

            your landscapers may be boneheads?; make sure they use stablized sand in the paver joints. at least from the house to 4'beyond the soffit. this will cause water to runoff instead of going down your wall. cost is only extra 20$

            if they are using non formal paving material (flagstone) it needs to be wetset.

            brianWI

  2. dude | Feb 08, 2007 10:14pm | #6

    got to tear out a patio behind a house a few years ago because the stones sank and water ran down basement wall and jacked in the cement blocks about 5" at the worst spot

    ended up replacing about 20' of block wall plus the interior was finished with cupboards which had to be rebuilt around 12000 for job

    the good news was another customer got the stones for free instead of throwing them in the dump

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