Replies

1. 
   xxPaulCPxx | May 24, 2007 08:33am | #1

   How many rooms are you talking about?  My 1400sq ranch (original size, 1700 now) had two breakers for outlets - one for the north side and one for the south side (besides the kitchen).  One breaker for all the lights in the house.

   When I installed the new service panel, I took a page from someone else here and checkerboarded the circuits.  This way if a circuit was down, there would always be a nearby light from another room to light the way.  Bedrooms and hallways on seperate circuits, for example.  I also tried to subdivide the rooms up as much as possible, each bedroom having its own circuit.

   This is for me, so I can rip a room apart next year and not have to worry about the kids not being able to watch Sesame Street when they wake up in the morning.

   I now have 10 AFI breakers and one GFI breaker in the box.  $330 worth of breakers.  I still have to put in a TVSS breaker (very sensitive to voltage spikes) for the TV and computer server circuits.  That one costs about $200.

   Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA

   Also a CRX fanatic!

   Parenting has always been a mix of sage life advice and inexcusable laziness.

2. 
   BillHartmann | May 24, 2007 02:53pm | #2

   Unless there is some local amendments. there is no limit on the number of lights/receptacles/rooms on a circuit. And you can combine/split lights and receptacles and/or rooms in any combination that you want.

   There are two limits. One is that the total of all fixtures with the max size bulbs can't be more than 80% of the total circuit.

   And you need to supply 3 watts/sq ft for general purpose lighting.

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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
1. 
   toolbear | May 25, 2007 04:06am | #4

   Unless there is some local amendments. there is no limit on the number of lights/receptacles/rooms on a circuit. And you can combine/split lights and receptacles and/or rooms in any combination that you want.There are two limits. One is that the total of all fixtures with the max size bulbs can't be more than 80% of the total circuit. @@@ Despite what the architect calls out, I assume that once the ink dries on the CFO, they will uplamp to 100w per fixture, so I use that factor and keep my lighting circuits at 12A. Should I be using more watts in my calcs?AND BY THE WAY - What ever happened to watts? What is this volt-amp stuff? James Watt was a pioneer. Like Alessandro Giuseppe Antonio Anastasio Volta or André-Marie Ampère.And you need to supply 3 watts/sq ft for general purpose lighting. Done that. I will put the master bedroom on one AFCI and the other bedroom plus office/bedrm on a second. Two ceiling fans and six can lights over there. TNX for the info. The ToolBear

   "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

1. 
   BillHartmann | May 25, 2007 05:17am | #9

   " @@@ Despite what the architect calls out, I assume that once the ink dries on the CFO, they will uplamp to 100w per fixture, so I use that factor and keep my lighting circuits at 12A.Should I be using more watts in my calcs?"No, by upping it to 100 watts and unless the family is all teanagers ALL of them won't be on at the same time."AND BY THE WAY - What ever happened to watts? What is this volt-amp stuff? James Watt was a pioneer. Like Alessandro Giuseppe Antonio Anastasio Volta or André-Marie Ampère."Watts is still around. But it only covers REAL POWER.Watts is volts*current*power factor.VA is just volts*current.Only the current that is in phase with the voltage does real work. And that is all that you pay for. But the wires and transformers and generators need to be sized for the total current. Thus VA is used..
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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

3. 
   DanH | May 24, 2007 05:01pm | #3

   > Any good tips for making AFCIs work for me?

   Buy stock in the company.

   So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
1. 
   toolbear | May 25, 2007 04:28am | #5

   > Any good tips for making AFCIs work for me?Buy stock in the company. @@@ I think so. Who has market share in these?The ToolBear

   "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

1. 
   maddog3 | May 25, 2007 04:34am | #6

   the company that had the NEC shove them down our throats....SqD.

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   ., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?

1. 
   toolbear | May 25, 2007 04:44am | #7

   the company that had the NEC shove them down our throats....SqDWhat could be better than having The Nanny State mandate that we buy these widgets? But, "it's for the children." So, that's OK. Do they really trip when you run the vac? Hear these stories. My place is 40 yrs old and nothing newfangled in the panel. Love to put some in. Anyone make guts for a Federal Elec. all-in-one?The ToolBear

   "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

1. 
   maddog3 | May 25, 2007 04:57am | #8

   that's one of the complaints... interestingly, just today, one of my co-workers said that the NEC is pulling back from it's whole house req. for 2008,
   I didn't ask where he heard this, but that would sure be welcome news
   ______________...... "Anyone make guts for a Federal Elec. all-in-one? "......do you mean Federal Pacific?.

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   ., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?

2. 
   DanH | May 25, 2007 06:13am | #10

   > What could be better than having The Nanny State mandate that we buy these widgets?Of course, it's not the "nanny state". NEC isn't a government agency.
   So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

3. 
   BillHartmann | May 26, 2007 01:44am | #11

   Of course it is the Nanny State.The NEC does not and can not mandate anything.It is the nanny state that does the mandating.And a large number of AHJ have opted ot of the AFCI requirements..
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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

4. 
   DanH | May 26, 2007 02:52am | #12

   Nah, it's the Corporate State.  NEC is an industry org, and reacts to what the industry wants.  The AHJs just go along because  there's no other game in town.
   So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

5. 
   Soultrain | Jun 21, 2007 05:37pm | #18

   New Jersey currently strikes the AFCI requirement - we don't even have to put them in bedrooms.

   I was at the my local supply house (Cooper Electric) & the guy was telling me (I forget how the conversation started) that with modular homes really striking it big, alot of electricians are pulling the AFCI's (since most of the homes are made in PA - a few from NY) and bringing them in for credit.  I honestly don't know why they would take them since they can't move them here.

   I guess they can send them back to their distributor & they can be sold in PA - maybe they end up in another modular.  Maybe the same AFCI's keep circulating...

6. 
   DanH | Jun 21, 2007 05:44pm | #19

   There are only five total.
   So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

7. 
   renosteinke | May 26, 2007 02:53am | #13

   Actually, it wasn't Square D. Cutler-Hammer had the first chance to develop an AFCI. UL, and the code panel, were not willing to list, let alone mandate, anything that was proprietary to one company. As a result, the inventor surrendered all patent rights ... so anyone can make use of the technology. Cutler-hammer also was quite evangelical in extolling the merits of the AFCI. At present, AFCI use is mandated only for bedrooms. There is absolutely no rule against having AFCI protection for circuits and outlets outside of bedrooms. (Personally, I suspect the 'bedroom' requirement was a 'stealth' attempt to have the AFCI protect most of the house ... without saying so!) Another possible 'hidden agenda' may have been a desire to change the way homes are wired. The AFCI requirement has certainly encouraged the electrician to separate bedroom circuits from other circuits!

8. 
   toolbear | May 26, 2007 04:39am | #14

   Another possible 'hidden agenda' may have been a desire to change the way homes are wired. The AFCI requirement has certainly encouraged the electrician to separate bedroom circuits from other circuits!@@@ Take up more panel spaces? Am I supposed to be embracing those tandem breakes? Seen enough tiny maxed-out panels full of tandems. I was looking all over for a 40/40 all-in-one semi flush. Did not happen. Exterior raintights for underground feeds, yes.
   Semiflush with mast. No - unless you would pay over $1,000, which I think is Vendor for Go Away. At that price, I expect solid silver bus bars. Settled on a 20/40 Murray with double gutter. Not a bad panel.The ToolBear

   "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

9. 
   maddog3 | May 26, 2007 04:42am | #15

   I always thought it was SqD who marketed the hell out of these things....

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   ., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?

10. 
    BarryO | Jun 20, 2007 09:23pm | #16

    I always thought it was SqD who marketed the hell out of these things...

    That's just because you like to blame things on the French ... ;)

11. 
    maddog3 | Jun 21, 2007 04:01pm | #17

    LMAO.

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    ., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?