I’m in the market for an after market table saw fence. I’ve looked at Jet, Beismier (sp?) and Vega.
Anyone have opinions on any of these? Others brands? Pros? Cons? Features you like? Don’t like?
Thanks – jim
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Replies
Jim,
Most of the shops and schools I've been in had Beisemier's. They are absolutely solid and dependable.
At College of the Redwoods, one of our three cabinet saws had a Vega. That saw was mostly used with a shop-built mortising jig that rode over the fence. The Vega has a very accurate fine adjustment feature that I liked a lot. There is a little knurled wheel which turns to adjust the fence in and out. Certainly worth checking out.
I'm not sure if it was here or at JLC, but someone wrote a post about being able to buy fences direct from Beisemier at a very substantial savings. Can't remember if they were demos or what.
What kind of saw you got?
Happy Friday,
-Kit
> someone wrote a post about being able to buy fences direct from Beisemier at a very substantial savings.
Yes, you can look on their web site for what they call "blemished" stock. They have two categories, blem 1 is minor cosmetic damage, like small scratches. Blem 2 is bigger damage, but still strictly cosmetic. If you don't find what you want on the web site, phone them. Some of the blem stuff moves so fast it's gone to phone customers before they have time to type it into the computer. They have hobbyist and professional lines, I got the 50" pro rails as blem 1 and the fence as blem 2 for less than the hobby version would have cost, IIRC.
This is on a Unisaw that my grandfather bought just before WWII. It replaced the original fence and pipe rails, which I kept for potential antique value.
As for a fine adjustment knob, what I find works plenty good enough for me is to put my thumb down hard on the rail snug up against the "T" part of the fence, and then just rotate my wrist to roll the thumb against the fence. That'll move the fence just a tiny amount.
-- J.S.
I have an Excalibar, and I've been happy with it. That said, I think we'd all be better off with European style fences and a sliding table rather than the long north American fences.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I've got Beisemier's long capacity fence on my cabinet saw and grizzly's shop fox copy of it on another. For what it is worth, I love both of them; However, the shopfox copy has made minor improvements (imo) such as a bubble magnified window above the measuring tape, and abs fence facings. the beams and attaching angle steel look interchangable, but I've never tried.
My Jet tablesaw came with a Jetfence, and I have been quite happy with it for a decade now. Smooth operator, easy to adjust, hasn't needed to be realigned once.
Jim-
I've got a 30" Biesemeyer that I bought and never installed.
I'll give you a good deal on it. Its just collecting dust here.
If you're interested, e-mail me.
Jim, I've only used the biesemeyer (& the delta unifence) but I can tell you it's an excellent fence. Mine always locks true, is easy to adjust, & it's easy to make accessory jigs that slide over its boxy shape.
A cabinet shop I worked at years ago had 2 unisaws set up with biesemeyers. These saws were used pretty much continuously all day, 5 days a week, & I don't ever remember the fences needing adjustment, or repair.
Jim; I am a tool seller. I deal in jet, delta, and vega. All are good. Vega is better. The T-square head rides securely and easily on the front chrome rail. The inside of the head is curved and the entire surface opposite the handle is a bearing surface, unlike the beismeyer type which uses triangulation, which allows the fence to shift angle when moved. The vega stays dead straight. It's made from anodized aircraft quality aluminum. It's truely micro-adjustable, it has small and large handles on the head. Throw the small handle spin a large thumbwheeel and move the head 1/1000 of an inch. Throw the big handle and lock it down. Made in Indiana by people who take pride in what they make. Vega tech support will talk you through the installation on "any" saw, but if you have a contractors or bigger you probably won't need any help. A little more work is needed if installed on a saw with stamped steel wings as extra angle brackets are needed. 2 only, come with the saw. I've put many a vega on many a saw in the stores I've worked in and it was always a pleasure to handle the Vega, and everytime I did it made me want to buy one. Evey time I sell one, when I see that guy again, the first words out of his mouth are always " I love that fence."
I bought a Vega for my Delta Rockwell contractor saw. I spent a lot of time researching this, and it was a tough decision. Everything that I have read from reviews indicates that you can't go wrong with the Biesemeyer fence though. Almost all the professional setups that I've seen have the Biesemeyer. I chose the Vega for a few reasons though.
1. It has a holddown bar on the outfeed side, which is nice if you are going to use any attachments on the fence. It can't lift off of the table accidently. It is still easy to take it off if you need it out of the way. The Biesemeyer doesn't come with a hold down, although it may be an option.
2. The Vega has an extremely nice micro adjust knob. No need to bump it back and forth to get it just right. This is not even an option on the Biesemeyer
3. The mounting for the Vega is more universal and more easily adapted. I have a 9" delta contractors saw and not the standard 10 inch size. The fence mounting holes are not standard. The Vega easily fit my saw. I did have to drill a couple holes, but there was no need for accuracy with placement of them.
4. The Vega has a couple nifty optional parts for feeding and holding narrow stock when cutting/ripping. I don't own them yet and cant vouch for them, but I have read that they are nice.
5. Made in USA.... So is the Biesemeyer though.
I've had this for about a year now, and can't think of any flaws. It's smooth, and very parallel to the blade. I don't burn wood or blades anymore. I want a better saw to attach it to now.
The reasons that I might have bought the Beisemeyer...
1. That's what everybody else is using, or at least a copycat version. Maybe they know something.
2. In all reviews that I have read. It ALWAYS has had the most precise machining for flatness / squareness. The Vega was pretty close though.
3. It's a really nice fence. Smooth
If you buy or compare different fences make sure you are comparing the same type (contractor or pro series) and rip capacity. The Vega has two distinct model series. The Utility series and the Pro series. The Utility has 1.5 inch diameter bars and a shorter smaller fence, and the Pro has 2 inch bars and a fat long fence. I bought the Pro version for solidness. I believe that Beisemeyer has 2 different sizes also. I think that if you compare the equal versions with equal rip capacities the prices are similar. I bought mine on Amazon.com when they were offering $50 off on $300+ purchases. I think that currently they are only offering $25 off. Amazon is a great place to start to get an idea of cost, and the reviews are often helpful. Have fun...
That's a lot of information everyone. Thank you. I hope more folks will chime in. I'm interested in all opinions.
Like some of you mentioned, the Vega has a micro adjust wheel that seems like it'd be handy. The new Jet fence has their version of that same feature, but the danged thing is TWICE as expensive (almost 450.00).
Kit, you asked what saw I have. This fence is for an old Unisaw, 1962 or something.
Phill, tell me more about that "European fence" you mentioned. What's so nifty about sliding table saws? I'm gonna Google the brand fence you mentioned - haven't heard of it.
Spelling error on the fence brand - "excalibur", as seen here http://www.woodworktools.com/exca.htmEuropean fences end at, or before, the blade (you MUST have a decent splitter for rip cuts), so there's a lot less binding and kick-back. A sliding table is for cross-cutting, works just like the panel-cutting jigs we all have. There's a picture of an add-on slider on the same web-site as the fence (link above).
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
And here's the manufacturer's link for the Excalibur fence:http://www.excalibur-tools.com/products/tt45.htm?product=tt45I used this fence on a Unisaw for maybe 15 years; got a new Powermatic 66 a couple of years ago that came equipped with a Bies clone (Accufence).I included the Excalibur fence when I sold the Unisaw, and am I ever sorry I did......
It is a great system -- precise, beautifully machined, slides (and lockes along a frnt and back rail. They sell a number of very useful fence accessories, but the design of the fence makes it very easy to jig up.I highly recommend this one, and urge you to consider it carefully.
Jim,I have an Excalibur on my Unisaw. I got it because I wanted the rear support for preventing uplift. Because it rolls on the rails, it can be moved with a single finger when adjusted properly. It is a very nice fence, but not as rugged in the components as the Biesemeyer I had before. After years of use, the aluminum tail block on the Excalibur developed a groove where it clamps onto the hind rail, which made removing the fence very difficult, because it had to be adjusted tighter to compensate. I finally fixed it this year, and all is well again. I inlaid some stainless steel at the wear points.A rear locking fence is essential if you will be using a power feeder, in my opinion.Bill
Euro fences slide back and forth, like the Delta Unifence.....you can, and sometimes do, use them long (past the blade), and can, and sometimes (often) do, use them short (stops before the blade). Most also flip over on their sides like the Unifence, which is useful for laminate work. My Italian Casadei ten-footer does anyway, most of the others I've seen and worked on also.
Jim; I have Biesemeyers or the General version on four saws right now, and have worked on plenty more, plus Unifences and some of the others. If I was doing a lot of laminate work, I'd probably have one Unifence (but you can keep the newer Unisaws.....old ones are better), but I like the Biesemeyers. I do block the front of the fence when using a power feeder if the dimension is critical.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Hey Adrian!!!! Where you been bro..missed ya around here..good to see ya back..:>)Buck Construction View Image
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Thanks again, everyone. I'm still open for suggestions.
"HTC" gotta check that out. Thanks Boris.
Jim,Make sure you tell us what you end up with and how it works.Looking for anything else at the show?I've been wanting to ask you how you like your Makita 1013. (You did get one last year right?) Looks like i'll finally be doing trim full time starting in June and I need to get a saw. I'd been leaning toward a Dewalt 706 for a long time, but I am starting to rethink. By the time I buy that saw and replace the garbage blade it comes with, I'm pretty much at the price of the Makita.Sorry, don't want to hijack this thread, but did want to ask before I forgot again. You can just email me if you want...-KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Hey Kit - I am hoping to get a chain and bar for my chain saw from the people I bought a chainsaw mill from a couple years ago. They didn't have what I needed then and I always thought I'd order it off their web site, but haven't.
I hope there's someone there selling Apollo HVLP gear. Want to take a look up close.
I want to take another look at the Mikra dustless sanding equipment, too. Last year it was "the new thing". I like to let stuff percolate a while, but that is one thing that has stayed with me these 18 months since I saw it. Hopefully they'll have a square one by now.
I want to play with a few belt sanders. My Milwaukee 3x24 has been in the shop one time too many and I'm gonna give up on it. Got over 20 years out of that old warhorse, but have paid for it at least twice with all the repairs it's needed. Very disappointing.
Plus, I'm planning a couple hours pawing through the goodies the retailers bring - you know, the companies that rent 20 spaces and have all those 4 dollar items you never knew existed? Love those places.
That Makita 1013? Sweet. Can't believe I got along all these years without a compound miter saw. I guess you remember the reason I bought the 10" is because I already have several hundred dollars worth of 10" blades, right? When I was about 30 I looked around the shop one day and realized that by buying a lot of my tools used, as I came upon great deals, I had a 9" table saw, a 10" radial arm saw, and a 14" miter box. Crimony, I could have bought the same tools new for what I invested in different sized blades for all those saws. Always thought "that would be one thing I'd do differently". What a frikkin' hard learner, huh?
Full time trimming? In June? There in the city of lost wages? I've heard there's tons of work to be had down there. Or are you headed back to the land of milk and honey?
Jim,
We are going ahead with the move to San Diego. Went down over Spring Break to start looking for work and had one very tempting job offer from a high end builder working in La Jolla, Del Mar, and Rancho Santa Fe. I only dropped into five places, two of which were closed, so I guess my ratio is good so far. I want to mail a resume to the two places that were closed and do one more round of dropping in, but it seems likely I'll take this job.
We still have a lot of stuff hanging over our heads (housing, schools, etc.) but at least I know someone out there wants a guy like me and is willing to pay a living wage to a man with a family.
I'm going to JLC Live in Anaheim in a few weeks and plan on taking a hard look at the Makita saws. I'm taking Gary Katz's all day seminar and I'm sure that will give me a few tricks. Been reading and practicing in the shop, building storage for the truck, trying to get things organized, got lists of stuff to do just to get ready to work...
If I ever get a shop set up, maybe we can wheel and deal on that old Makita of yours.
Nice chattin' with you, Jim. (Sorry, everyone else.)
-Kit
Technique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Yea Jims right about alot of work in lost wages (las vegas) buttt the conditions are pretty brutal. winter gets pretty cold 10-20's or colder adding in wind chill , summer 110 plus like working on the sun. my BIL is a mason their. They have to start at 2AM during the summer and finish about 10AM. The kids are stuck inside all day and you have to wait till about 9PM to take them to the park to play.
As far as san Diego...you might to want to check out Ramona, Julian Escondito. Nice mountain type area.. there was a lot of fire damage this last year their and the surrounding areas.. lotsa work. If you make tyo Anahiem give me a buzz Im not to far from there only 10-15 mins on surface streets...Buck Construction View Image
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
I logged on this morning with the intention of asking the very same question as your post, and appreciative of the informative replies. BT is truely a fabulous forum.
I hope more folks will chime in. I'm interested in all opinions.
OK. Mine says Arizona Special Products (circa 1979), bought directly from Bill Biesemeyer, before the name change installed on a then 2 month old Unisaw. It was the original aftermarket fence, far as I know. When we lived in Denver I set up an account to purchase fences wholesale as community service for the informal woodworkers' group there. Over the next few years I bought close to 100 fences. That 25% dealer discount made them very attractive. They went on everything, including ancient Craftsman saws, which almost turned them into a real tool.
The only complaint I ever got was one "professional" numbskull who tried to show me how the fence wasn't square, even though his cuts were all excellent. When I showed him how the top of his saw drooped almost 1/2" he was pretty embarrassed to have wasted my time.
Far as I know, you can't go wrong with any of the aftermarket fences. By the way, I and others have used stock feeders with Biesemeyers. No problem. Best? Not likely, but if you can't tell the difference in the cut, and it doesn't get out of adjustment, it doesn't matter. Can't imagine you wouldn't be pleased with anything you buy. Personally, I would never consider one where somebody was going on about thousandths of an inch. It's wood I'm cutting.
My only question: What took you so long?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
"My only question: What took you so long?"
Welllllll, all these years I've been getting by with an old 9" Rockwell on wheels that I set up in my shop, but take out on the job sometimes, too. So putting a nice fence on that saw never made sense.
Then, about 10, maybe 12 years ago I bought an old Unisaw from the local school district when they discontinued wood shop. Of course, this saw had been sitting in a metal storage container for a couple years so it was rusted up pretty bad. Have I mentioned it had a 3 phase motor on it and I live in the boonies?
I always had it in mind to clean it up and change the motor, but never got around to it until a couple years ago. At the time I remember thinking "it'd be nice to keep it as stock as possible" so I've been using (and cussing) the stock fence the last couple years.
Earlier this week I woke up one day and said "that's enough". And started looking at after market fences.
One of these days I'll be building a new (bigger) shop and I'll have room for the Powermatic shaper I got at that same auction. Really looking forward to rebuilding that old gal.
Jim, nice to see somebody else is somewhat slow to get up to speed. I have a 2 spindle shaper, babbitt bearings, in storage. My 42" wide 3 drum sander (4 motors)still remains to be picked up to get it into the building. Guy who brought it here didn't have enough truck to make it up the driveway with an 11000 lb. load. I now finally have the machinery to move it the 1/2 mile up the driveway. And yes, had to build a building. One day soon, then I evict the rodents and start repairs.
One not small factor I forgot to mention in my last post. Availability of rail extension on the left of the blade. When I bought my fence I didn't know they existed. Many times I've wished I had a 12" extension there. Not enough to bother to swap out the rail, but annoying that it was available and I didn't have it. When you get a real fence, you won't believe how bad that original one was.
Regarding 3 phase, I haven't bothered to convert my machines. I figure $25 is adequate to spend on phase conversion, been living with a converter for the last 25 yrs. Not exactly an industrial park here either, except for the machinery.
Latest stationary tools I bought at auction were a 12-14" Rockwell table saw (last used in the military), likely to replace my Unisaw, and a monster Powermatic lathe from a school auction- $25. Love being able to take advantage of our tax dollars.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Wait. Did you really say "Regarding 3 phase, I haven't bothered to convert my machines. I figure $25 is adequate to spend on phase conversion..."?
Yup. Most of the money is for a switch. Other than that you need a 3 phase dummy motor which I can usually find for $5, and frequently free.
I put together a "commercial" one, complete with capacitors, for a friend here for $120, rated for 3 hp. He flips a switch. Once borrowed one in Denver to see what the difference was, and saved the wiring diagram. The difference, far as I can tell, is how it's started. Regarding capacity, I turned on tools in my Denver shop while watching an induction ammeter to make sure I didn't fry that $750 convertor. Finally was drawing over 48A and everything was working fine, if loud. Only had 50A available for the whole shop.
Mine has no capacitors or starting motor. I kick it to get it started. 5hp is big enough for my main shop tools, Unisaw, 12" jointer, 36" bandsaw, 5 hp dust collector. I maybe remember to lube it annually and it's been humming for 20 yrs or so.
Which is why I never sprung that $400 for a 1 phase Unisaw motor.
I made a major mistake when I ran wire to my current shop from the house. I've got 50A available. That's too small, never dreamed I'd own such large machines and didn't weld at the time. It's also 700' down the hill which makes for rather expensive wire if you want to draw much current. When I hooked up my 24" planer and chip blower I realized there were no extra amps for a large phase convertor. The three choices then were 1)bury another, larger wire 2)put a meter on the building 3)generate 3 phase when I needed more than a small convertor. I'm doing 3), when I run the planer, same will go for that huge sander. Wanted to have emergency power anyhow, so this does double duty. Have yet to use any emergency power.
Strong recommendation not to make my mistake when you build your next shop.
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html is not something I've read, but seen promoted as a how-to. Whatever you do, don't let anybody sell you a static convertor, gotta be rotary. That was another of my mistakes you don't want to experience. My understanding is that VFDs are better, but single machine dedicated.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I had the beis and got rid of it for the unifence. i chose the unifence for a few reasons.
It is adjustable to the front and rear so you can get the same effect as a euro cut off fence.
You can take the fence off rotate it 90 degrees to where the small lip of the fence rides on the table , The fence measureing indicator has 2 indicators for this one for upright measureing and one for the small fence application. I really like this for small thin pieces such as 1/4" ply.
I know no one else ever does this but me..But if you drop the beis its a pain to replace the fence, you have order a kit from beis and install it and glue the laminate on the apple ply substrate clamp the snot out of it and wait for it to cure.
The unifence just go the tool store and buy one to what ever length you want (they have a couple of different lengths of fences aand they are made to be removed from the head, so if you add a rear support table you can have the fence run out to and on it as they are seperate and removable
I also find them fairly easy to attach jigs to and they only use a front rail system.
well thats my opinion and Im stickin to it . :>)
BTW Jim, didja get my email...Id like to talk to you about that. let me know and Ill email you my phone or you can send me your and we can talk. Thanks
Buck Construction View Image
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
I have the Vega on my Powermatic 66 - I bent the rail moving the tablesaw once, customer service was indeed great in getting parts - the fence is accurate solid, etc, and I saved a few bucks, but I still want the Biesemeyer.
Oh yeah - I have to hold a wood shim in place when I lock it in - the factory device (brass?)fatigued and fell off. I don't use the micro-adjust much, except as a back-up lock when the fence seems wiggly.
"BTW Jim, didja get my email..."
No e mail, Ron. When did you send it? Just sent you one through your profile. Hopefully we can connect.
(glad to see you back on the board)
I'm in the market for an after market table saw fence.
You better get one fast.I think they will out-law the tablesaws.
President Bush visit a factory last week and try to cut a piece of wood.
Guess what? He got a kick-back.
You better get one soon.
Jim, I have a 30" Biesmeyer on my Delta contractor's saw. It's great, tough, super simple. I would have sprung for the 50" if I had room in my shop. I've used the Delta brand fence quite a bit on other saws and don't like it much. The new fences with the micro controls look nice, but I'd want to make sure they were really sturdy. One day I'm building cabinets and the next day I'm ripping down rough old boards, so tough is more important than micro controls to me.
Mike
Hi Jim,
Another TS fence you might want to consider is an Incra:
http://www.incra.biz/index.html
These are strong sellers at my store, despite being a bit pricey. The guys who bought these report back that they love them for their accuracy.
good luck
Thanks, darcy. Just spent an hour or so at their site. That looks like a very nice system they have developed. Looks like you could add other devices as your needs change.
I am going to the local Woodworking Show Friday. Hopefully someone there will have one of these I can put my hands on, look underneath, feel for heft, smooth action. I also want to see if the thing gets my head spinning like the photos on their website. May be way more tool than I need, but I am trying to keep an open mind.
Going to the woodworking show AGAIN????? Are you bringing a wagon..remember what happened last time.... :>)
I learned to bring a wagon cuz hearing the wife complain I cant feel my hands..this stuff is getting heavy..where are the kids at..sheesh I barely had time listen to the guys hawking their stuff....
I dont understand what her problem is after dressing the kids, mowing the lawn cooking me breakfast gassin up the rig..Then for a break , I let her come to show with me and she complains about hauling the tools around..... man they dont make'm like they used to....Buck Construction View Image
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Check out HTC. It is basically a Beis clone but with removable faces, so you can change from a low fence to high one, or from a low one to a sacrificial one in about 15 second, and cheaper than the high fence attachments for the Beis.
I know only the Beis, the HTC and the Delta standard ones, Jim.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Things to consider with the Excalibur fence:
It is very time consuming to install and adjust the fence, but once it is done properly you will like this fence.
I have mine installed on an old 3HP Rockwell cabinet saw. On the right hand side I have a big homemade sidewing(3/4"melamine on top of a sturdy 2X2 frame with 4 legs as support). The only problem I face is the big Delta mobile base I used with the big side extension. When I move the saw around in the shop the alignment of the fence changes slightly. Excalibur came out with their own steel sidetable at a decent price (I think about $200 CAN). According to their salesrep this table should prevent any movement. If I would have to do it again I would buy the table from them and put the top of my choice on it. They make a nice micro adjuster, it comes in very handy when you want to trim off a 1/64.
Count me in with Ron, the Unifence is a pretty handy and reliable device.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success, is not pleasing others, it is pleasing yourself"