Age of kids to use nail gun, other tools
junkhound
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
Doing some repairs last weekend. Also needed some weeds cleared. Payed the grandkids some to help.
One just turned 6, let him use machette on blackberries and small trees. Also let him pull the trigger on the N88 (w/sequential trigger), figure at least 10 YO* before letting him have at it by himself (the older 8 YO is very carefull, doesnt even want to pull the trigger yet, prefers a hammer, but takes about 15-20 whacks for a 16d sinker thru 2 2bys)
What is your take on age for this type tool (framing nail gun).
Have already deceided on 15 YO for table saw or sidewinder, table jigsaws started at 5 YO.
*or when he can hold a nailer at arms length straight out for 30 seconds.
Replies
A nailgun is really no different from any other firearm, except most people don't tend to get shot by their own firearms during their lifetimes... how many people here have gotten dinged up by a nailgun misfire?
The real question to ask: How big an azzwhoopin will I get from relative A, B, and C (maybe D and E too) if little Jeremy (or whoever is handling the gear) fastens himself to a windowsill?
I figure a trim nailer is similar to a .22, and a framing nailer is similar to a 30-06 or a .223. If you would feel confident putting any of those in their hands, I think you should be fine. Farm kids grow up driving $100,000 tractors that are as big as a guest house around. It's all about what they are ready for. And the azzwhuppin you are ready to take if something goes wrong, of course!
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Excellent points. Also, most people know enough (although there are certainly lots of accidents where kids point "unloaded guns" at each other and end up killing someone) to be careful around a "real" gun, but I expect most don't know enough to respect a pneumatic nailer or many other power tools for that matter.
As a very young boy, I was fascinated by chainsaws.
My uncle let me saw a log once, it was great!
So I had to tell my mom that Paul let me use a chainsaw! This was in the early 1960's, so there were no safety mechanisms at all on chainsaws and injuries were frequently horrendous.
I felt very sorry for Paul after the azz chewing he got from mom. Also, I never got to use a chainsaw for at least 12 years after that single cut.
I am amazed at the tools I was allowed to use at various ages. I am not sure if they had a lot of confidence in me, didn't want to argue the subject, thought I was more mature than I was, or were trying to get rid of me.
I think the better question might also include - what tools can I let them use at what ages at what varying degrees of supervision. 10yo and nailgun might mean that you do nothing but watch (constantly). . .
However, keep letting them use the stuff. I think that hands-on stuff like that when a kid is young really helps develop some cognitive skills that many don't have anymore.
Adventures in Home Building
An online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
A nail gun can be pretty heavy for a young'n to handle for more than say 20 to 40 minutes. Again, it depends on the youngster, but fatique is a primary cause of accidentsnot that any body is likely to send a kid up on a roof with the command to not come down 'till all the sheathing was nailed off
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I let my Sons do all sorts of things that no one else would.
But I started out with 'em that way. They were on the roof when we were laying shingles at 3 years old. Driving nails by the time they were 5. Driving vehicles unassisted at 9. I don't remember the ages I let 'em use the drill press or circular saw.
But each time, I explained what I wanted them to do clearly, and more than once. (I learned a long time ago it takes more than one time to sink in)
I also made sure they started out with something simple and as safe as I could make it. Like the first time I let them cut a board with the circular saw, I clamped the board down so it couldn't move on them.
Oh yeah - I always made sure their Brother wasn't around when they did something the first time. Don't need them bickering and criticizing each other.
I don't think there's an eaasy answer about what the right age is. Things vary a great deal based on what the kid is comfortable with, what they've done before, and how well they listen.
So far we've been very fortunate. No injuries from anything tool or work related.
It's funny,
My father in law us in his late 70's and grew up on a dirt poor P.A. Dutch farm.
He talks about doing all kinds of stuff at 7 or 8 years old that would cause all sorts of grief today. Like driving the tractor or hitching and working the mules. Or my favorite, riding on an old wagon wheeled potato planter wagon and planting potatoes.
He was the only one who thought it was perfectly normal when my son was 8 and I bought him a .22 rifle. One of those little Davy Cricket single shots. The kind that you have to close the bolt AND pull back on the firing pin knob in order to cock it.
My family acted like I was training him to be some kind of mass murderer.
Been meaning to aks. HOw did your trip to the Fest go?
The fest was nice. I'd highly recommend going to one if ya ever have the chance. Did ya see the thread about the one in Nashville? I know that's no exactly in your back yard, but it should be close enough to be doable.There will be a lot of quality people there - Like that guy that stopped to visit me at work a few weeks ago. (-:There will also like be some teenagers there, if your Son would be interested in coming along.
Sponges are Female, because they're soft, squeezable and retain water.
Its Memphis .Memphest 2006
November 18th
Aw, heck - I was in the right state.
Ziploc Bags are Male, because they hold everything in, but you can see right through them.
I think I agree with the thought that it depends on the kid, not the age. My kids have been on roofs, jumped off rocks and swam in lakes. When they are unsure of something, sometimes they need encouragement. I want to make construction, if not fun, at least not drudgery, so if a power tool can make it easier or quicker, I am all for it. Sure I want them to develop their hand nailing skills, but I don't want them to beat their wrists and elbows up with a hammer anymore than with a nail gun. I let each of them determine for themselves if they feel comfortable with the tool and then they use it under my direction. Any screwing around and they stop. It is not about production, since I have to supervise. If the nail gun scares them, they use a hammer. If the hammmer is too big/little they use a different one.They like responsibility and the acccomplishment that comes from doing a good job. When they see how heavy a nail gun is or how hard it is too dig, that serves as encouragment to pick up the books!Nothing wrong with letting them use a finish nailer to pin things together and then drill and drive screws on other projects as well.
Since we live in an age where some are mature at 12YO and others manage to have thirty some birthdays go by with no growth after age 17YP, it's an individual and context sensitive answer.
I know my Dad had me running a rototiller ( what a monster! - The old front tine jerk, bounce and throw kind, back when I was 11-12 YO, but he wanted my hands off his skill saw and jig saw. 'course he had managed to cut about 1/4" off the end of his finger already, so I think he got gun-shy . I don't know if I ever saw him use either again the rest of his life.
He was shy about electricity too. He went in the cellar to 'fix' something on the well pump and was standing in an inch or so of water when he got knocked across the room ...
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
When I grew up in Germany my family owned a garden center/nursery. It was a family owned business, all the work was done by my family. In the summer time during summer break I was working there from 9 am till 5 pm. I got paid 2 DeutschMark an hour. That was a lot of money for a ten year old. My uncle showed my how to use the arc welder and any sort of power tool that we had. They always told me about the dangers of the tools I used.
When my dad was working on one of the fields with a little tractor or big roto tiller I helped him. He let me drive the tractor and use the smaller roto tiller. It was great. I was never unsupervised doing that.
There was also the occasion when I spend time with my uncle and ant on their farm. My uncle showed my how to plow a field and let me drive the tractor home after a days work. There was no car traffic in the area. I was 12 years old at the time.
By the time I was 14 I built my first go cart. What a monster it was. I did all the fabricating, my older brother helped very little. My friends were very impressed when they saw the outcome of it. I had enough money to buy the parts I needed. All been financed from the hard work in the summer time.
Today I work as a auto bodyman for a Mercedes Benz dealer. Skills I learned as a kid had a big influence on my career. You can hand me any tool and I know how to use it.
Now that I have 2 kids on my own my son (3 1/2 years) wants to work with me ("Papa ich moechte mit dir arbeiten") all the time. I let him drive nails in wood and he likes to use the cordless drill too. The little girl (2 years) start to use screwdrivers now. And I do let them help me. It requires a lot of patience but I know it will benefit
them later. Be patient and tell them about the dangers of tools. Hitting yourself on the thumb doesn't kill you it only makes you smarter and more careful the next time you use a hammer.
Every time I read a post about children in the shop and using tools, especially young children, I can't help but wonder, "What the heck is the matter with you people?" A nail gun in the hands of a 10 yr. old is crazy. Of course they can pull a trigger with an adult standing by but what about the recoil and that sudden jump the gun often takes, very often shooting a second nail, completely out of control. I'm sorry, but I think some of you adults should take some common sense classes, since you don't seem to have any. Maybe you should take some basic classes in power tools, because you don't seem to understand much about them either. Follow those classes up with one on parenting. A hammer and some nails with proper fitting safety glasses if you must, but power tools? Get a clue!
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
You must live in Bizzaro world. Parents and Guardians make choices about what is acceptable based on every child. Not you or your reality set. I'm pretty sure that my 9 YO could handle a circular saw, especilly my little DeWalt 18 Volt, but he's not emotionally ready to accept the responsibility and the dangers.At work I teach 13-18 YO woodworking. I teach every major woodworking tool. RAS, Jointer, Planer, Tablesaw, 20" Bandsaw, Routers, saws , etc.
Some use the nailguns, some do not. All depends on your relationship and maturity level of the individual. MAny kids who have an intrest can do a lot more than they are allowed, and sometimes they'll do it when your not looking...
"sometimes they'll do it when your not looking..."Which is how I first learned that a jigsaw blade can hurt you.Far better to school and instruct a kid how to use a tool safely than to let him sneak around to have a go at it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Follow those classes up with one on parenting."
I'd suggest that you go take a tranquilizer, then take a course in minding your own business, with a major in STFU. With proper supervision/handholding, there is no problem with having kids help with power tools.
From your post, I'm taking it that you assume everybody is stupid and incompetent; maybe you think it would be better to let the kids watch sluts on parade on tv, along with blood and guts. Maybe the kids are better for the chance to learn how to use tools properly; after all, they could suffer a grievous bodily injury from a PENCIL, too. Should we ban drawing and writing without supervision? You need to chill, and get off your high horse in telling everyone else how to raise kids.
amen
my cousin was on a tractor since he was 9 months. By 6 he was raking hay alone. I say let them run anything they are big enough to do. in 9th grade, our shop teacher showed us the gaurd on the tablesaw and then took it off and put it away. Pay attention
naw...stick em in front of the video games...they can watch TV when they're board of that. maybe by the time their 15 they'll be so useless, no one will have have clue what to do with them including themselves.
My 6 YO has had his own little hammer since 4. at 5, I bought him a couple of little hand saws. he "helped" me build our house, digging with small shovels, running shop vac, helping with glue ups, helping bolting posts for railing, helping lay 2" pipe, cut pipe with Sawzall ( assisted).... and use drill press (assisted) to make Yo Yo for a "Daddy son project".
I think every Kid is different and will be ready for different tools at different ages. Some good points have been mentioned regarding specific tools, which should be considered.
furthermore....we as parents are also all different...if you don't have the "patience" or "judgement" to teach your kids safely how to use these tools then it is probaly better left until they are clearly old enough.
but in the end who is anybody to tell one how to raise their kids...we as parents have that repsonsiblity. some kids can handle certain things at a certain age and some parents can handle teaching them.
some can not...both the kid and the parent.
Edited 9/2/2006 11:52 am ET by alrightythen
In late 40's our house was 1st one built after WW2. We got moved in my age 10 . Since it was a small town development was slow so we spent the next 4-5 yrs crawling all over houses under construction & got to know all the carps. I went to work with them at 19 and was accepted as one of the crew and was expected to work like them.
Experience is everything. We have way too many 20 somethings going on maturity level 14 for lack or real world experience. That certainly won't be the case with most of the kids of builders and farmers who are allowed to grow up arround real activities.
The important issue is for each parent to assess their child's ability and regulate their activities accordingly. My daughters all take care of maintence issues in their homes because husbands were never given the chance to learn how to do things-a sad situation to watch.
On the other hand we regularly see occourances of farm children being injured in tractor roll-overs or getting into an unshealded PTO shaft.
Parents who are teaching kids to work with equipment need to be sure their own work-habits are safe and then instill them in the kids.
If you have a problem, quit talking about it do something to fix it!
Jim Andersen
Glad I generated some opinions on the subject. When it comes to power tools, even battery operated ones, you have a high level of responsibility with anyone that is under age 18. I'm a former teacher, 7th grade through post grad. I taught woodworking and carpentry in a vocational school. Vocational educators are strong supporters of hands on learning in real world conditions. I built houses with my students, out on site, foundation to finish.I had responsibility for other peoples children. I took a long hard look at what those responsibilities were. Students didn't even pick up an extension cord until they had been trained in a wide variety of safety matters. We would start with responsibility, behavior, proper dress and attitude. There would be classes and demonstrations on personal protective devices, electrical safety, emergency response, basic first aid. Before they plugged in a power tool, they will have read the owners manual, and been trained in all the aspects of the tool. I wanted my students to be able to identify hazardous conditions and know what the appropriate corrective measures were. I wanted them to be competent in using the tool, thoroughly experienced. How do you draw an age line for tools? It can vary between individuals. Basic shop safety would precede hand tools. Proficiency with hand tools would graduate from hammer and saw to sharper blades. Behaviors and attitudes will tell if it's time to think about simple power tools. I don't think a child under age 10 needs to use a power tool. A 3 yr. old doesn't belong in the shop. An 18 yr. old in my class won't be touching a nail gun until they have built a house, from blueprints up, with a hammer and nails. They will have demonstrated proficiency with many other tools and exhibited an attitude and capability to take the responsibility seriously. Activities should be age, maturity and experience appropriate.If you are going to spend some time with a young person in the shop, make it about them. Stop what you are doing and think about the child. The hazards involved with power tools range from grit in the eye from the motor fan to death from electrocution. At what age do you think a child should be exposed to these and many other possible injuries? Of course life if full of dangers but table saws and nail guns don't have to be some of them for pre-teens. Is the early push on power tools about the child or the adult? I don't think some adults understand the difference.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Well said.
What is going to happen when that 17 or 18 year old leaves school and gets on a real jobsite having never handled a nailgun? No one else is going to care that he didnt build a house with a hammer and nails before handing over the nailgun. It would be much better to give them some exposure to all of the tools of the trade under strict supervision rather than have some arbitrary standard like building an entire house with hand tools before letting them use a nailgun. It doesnt take that long to teach a 16 to 18 year old how to safely use a power tool. Better you than the pot head he will be working with a year later, and believe me, there is at least one on almost every site I have worked on in over 20 years. The way I see it, a little risk now, while they are in school or at home with their parents is a lot better than the risk they will be taking as a rookie on the job.
"They will have demonstrated proficiency with many other tools and exhibited an attitude and capability to take the responsibility seriously. Activities should be age, maturity and experience appropriate.
Is the early push on power tools about the child or the adult? I don't think some adults understand the difference."
Right on hammer1.
It's far better to train kids with tools when they're young and still want to learn. Once guys get to be about 16 they know everything and don't WANT to learn.My kids are smart and talented because I INCLUDE them in the things I do, and always have. If I told them they could help me best by staying inside and playing video games, they'd probably only be about average.Your ranting makes me wonder if you even HAVE kids. Maybe *YOU* are the one who needs a class on parenting.
How many Dull Men does it take to change a light bulb?......One
What you said reminded me of my dad's story about someone letting his uant shoot a .45 semi-auto pistol. The noise of the first shot and the recoil scared her, so she kept screaming "Oh, oh..." as she clenched her hand, emptying the whole clip into the air all around her. That's a time where a couple of seconds could seem like an eternity (or at least the rest of your life!).
I think you're way off base on this one. I assume you don't have kids?
I was taking wood shop / metal shop classes at age 11. Only tool that the teacher wouldn't let us kids use was the table saw. The metal shop was unlimited, we were using the big sheet metal shear, spot welder, brakes and rolls. Age 13, third year of wood shop, big radial arm saw and table saw were no longer off limits. I think a nail gun needs to be treated like a firearm. Both my 11-yr old son and 14-yr old son are well versed in the use of small caliber rifles and pistols, I see no reason not to have them use a framing nailer or any kind of nailer as long as they are trained to use them and know what they are capable of. Obviously a kid who can't control his behavior cannot be trusted with such a tool. I teach my boys to use any tool they want to learn to use, as long as I feel they are ready. Younger than age 10, all kids should probably be sticking to hand tools and maybe a jig saw, scroll saw and sander. I wouldn't want my kids running a jointer, table saw or circular saw until they were at least high school age - and being properly taught in safety procedures first.
as all/most pointed out... depends on the kid... my 8yo girl has been on roofs with me since she was 3-4.... on my harley since she was 6mo and on her own 4wheeler @ 5yo and her jetski@ 6 she not much into tools and working, but knows how to pick the correct screwdriver or screwgun for the job... she is all girl and into girl things... but she's not a sissy... i expose her to alot... and i've let her make the call on if or not to lease to some people... i ask and value her opinion... she also drives pretty well
my soon to be 3yo son... loves tools, motorcycles, cars, boats, jetskis.. can drive a boat (steer) to where we want to go... I'll look at a project with him and ask...what will we need to do this /fix this... and he gets the list just about dead on materials and tools... not quanity... but he'll list... hammer, saw, wood, ladder, paint ect... which ain't bad for a 2yo... he asks a million questions like all kids and i try to answer everyone just like he was 20...
you must extend trust to the untrusted so that they may become trustworthy...
I was around tools and a dad who could do anything (in my eyes) all my life... by the time i was 12 i was race'n karts and building the motors for same.... with money i made myself... @ 15 we moved and i lost my garage within a week i found a dude go'n down the street with a backhoe to dig out the hill in may parents new yard... within a month i'd learned to lay block and finish concrete... already knew how to frame... in 60days i had a 24x24 garage/workshop bought built & paid for by me... it still stands and nothing is sag'n or bow'n...
point being... i was always around it... never knew i couldn't do anything and the tools were there...
i know my kids will never be able to walk down the road with a shotgun over their shoulder to the woods like we did... (at 11-12yo) and i'm sad for that...
p
Edited 9/2/2006 10:51 pm ET by ponytl
"you must extend trust to the untrusted so that they may become trustworthy"..
That is one of the most appropriate comments I have seen on this forum.
Thank You!If you have a problem, don't just talk do something to set it right.
Jim Andersen
Had to add that to my tag lines...
I've missed over 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times I've been trusted to take the game-winning shot . . . and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." [Michael Jordan]
Pix is the 2 grandsons with the first set of stairs they built last week ( I did the top and bottom stringer angle cuts) Note the 'fine' footings, but they did get it level, will need to replace the footings with concrete.
They got to pull the trigger on the nailgun on some of the harder spots to get to. Think the older was getting another skeeter bite during the pix.
Other pix is how the 3 YO can handle a 12 v HF drill one handed even - he has enough control he can drill 3" deep with a 3/8 bit into old chunks of gluelam.
Kids will be kids, note the shreds of styrofoam on the ground from aggressive attack on a chunk of that with machettes!
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Edited 9/3/2006 7:51 am ET by junkhound
Edited 9/3/2006 7:52 am ET by junkhound
Edited 9/3/2006 7:54 am ET by junkhound
You got jumped on but I'm more in agreement with your perspective than many others here. I think the recoil of a framing nailer could damage a little kids joints. They are not fully developed yet. Sure, they could pull the trigger and build a frame but, they will likely develop shoulder and wrist and elbow problems early in life.
Just because they can doesn't mean they should.
Whats wrong with friggin hand tools? They're kids. Whats production got to do with learning anyway?May neighbors respect You, and troubles neglect You.
Gord
Ok, you got trashed enough by other posters, so I'll not chime into that. Instead, I'd like to consider this statement:
A hammer and some nails with proper fitting safety glasses if you must, but power tools? Get a clue!
So, your premise is that it's better for small persons, possibly with incompletely-developed hand-eye coordination repeatedly swing impact devices where other fingers are holding a fastener to be driven?
Have you not hit your own thumb (in, presumably, adult years) with a hammer? With a 16oz waffle-faced framer, perhaps?
Sure, a nail gun can bounce, rebound, double-fire, all manner of things. Are any of those things worse than a hammer to a thumb?
I'll not even talk about the potential for repetitive stress trauma in developing limbs . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Yes, Capn. I'd rather see a pre-teen whack a finger with a hammer and risk repetitive stress injury, than use a nail gun.Yes, I have hit myself with a hammer. Real hard!Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Lots of takes on this one.
Speaking of calibers, xxPaulxx had me thinking that a tablesaw is akin to a 7mm Ultra Magnum...fast, powerful, with lots of recoil.
My take on kids with tools is to consider the child's age, demonstrated level of mental and physical maturity, and past behaviour when offered more responsibility.
With a child, the goal is not production, so power tools are not needed. A child first needs to learn how materials are measured, cut and assembled. They learn coordination in the process. And how materials behave. These basics can be just as well and much more safely taught with handtools.
A gradual approach would likely reduce the chance of permanent injury. You go from the ToysRUs plastic saw and hammer to a small-sized steel hammer and handsaw, then to full size handtools once the child grows into those.
Once proficiency in the basics of measuring, cutting and assembly are demonstrated, powertools can be introduced gradually. I'd start a kid off with the drill/driver, go to a jig or sabre saw, then move on to the big fast sharp ampy hungry ones. Last ones would be the framer, planer, router, SCMS and tablesaw.
Similar principles apply to training airforce pilots. New pilots don't start off by flying 24hr supersonic missions from a carrier deck. They're put in Cessna-like trainers. Even experienced pilots qualify on new aircraft types by flying a simulator.
Having said all that, I still can't decide whether a sidewinder or worm-drive is best for a 10yo.
Edited 9/2/2006 2:15 pm ET by Pierre1
Edited 9/2/2006 2:17 pm ET by Pierre1
Did you happen to see the last Journal of Light Construction? Show that to someone before they use a power tool (though, they may be too scared to touch one after seeing some of those pictures--the one of the guy who was using a circular saw on stock he placed on his knee I had to view between fingers over my eyes--eeww!).
edit--what reminded me of this was your comment about 7 mm magnum--I have seen less damage to deer I've killed (admittedly, NOT with a 7mm. mag.) than was done to this guy's leg with the saw.
Edited 9/2/2006 3:20 pm ET by Danno
No JLCs here, just FHBs. I can well imagine the damage though. Burying a circ blade in one's thigh is bad enough for a man, let alone a kid.
I still have all my digits thank god, but then I came to power tools very gradually. Made (and sometimes make) mistakes though, but have yet to set off the full chain reaction....
More on my general premise:
Skilsaws, nailers and table saws are highly 'action-reaction' type tools that take a fair bit of body mass, hand and arm strength, forward thinking and materials behaviour knowledge to control and use safely. Very few kids can muster all four.
The other day, I needed to rip 3/8" off the end of a 6x6 beam. Made two opposing circ saw cuts, maybe 20" long, which left say 1.25" in the middle. This I set my helper to with a sharp handsaw.
Part way through the cut, he's having trouble with the saw binding. I explained what was going on, showed him how to wedge the cut with a shim, and he carried on.
Later on, if this person graduates to a table saw, we will recall this experience (kerf pinching the blade) and extrapolate to what can happen when a rip kerf pinches a 15A builder's saw.
It's all about gradually exposing people (and kids) to the "it" in small, understandable safe doses. I believe in teaching good practices and habits on the basis of increasingly complex but still manageable experiences.
Good points. I remember guys I framed with not knowing to make sure the off-cut could fall free--it would pinch the blade and the circular saw would jump back. Dangerous and hard to control for an adult, much less a kid. Of course, once you know to make sure the saw can't bind, like you said, then it's no probelem--but how often can you be absolutely sure that something isn't going to go exactly as planned? That's when your other training comes in, like to keep parts of you body you'd like to keep out of the path of the saw if it were to kick back.
Yeah, I can think of one part that I'd be worried about if'n a kickback ploughed a saw up my thigh.
Speaking of training, I've noticed my trigger finger discipline is excellent with the nailguns, but intermittent with the circ saw. Gotta pay more attention to what I'm doing I guess. Walking the talk.
Safety Smafety
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"I'm here to chew bubble gum & kick azz, & I'm all out of bubble gum" Rowdy Roddy Pipier
The level of safety based on the child's maturity is almost equal to the level of safety based on the parent's maturity.
Nothing wrong with exposing kids to construction and tools, it's another to expect them to be anything other that kids.
Gabe
Nothing tears at my heart more than reading a kid's obit.
I think it depends more on the adult that it does on the kid. The adult needs to recognize that the first thing you teach is the safety rules. I think that safety rules taught young are the ones best remembered. If the adult supervises and enforces the safety rules, then teaching a young child to use power tools is great for both.
I agree. I don't care if it's cars, chainsaws, or firearms, 95% of safety is between your ears, not some gadget bolted to the machine. Always ask yourself, "where's it gonna go if something bad happens?" and work accordingly. My only concern would be that the kid has the attention span and experience to allow him to make that judgment. But again, it's what he's learned from his parents, some might be okay at 8, some never are.
I let my 13 yo use the framing nailer all day today. First he nailed the bottom of the rafters while I stood on the ridge and nailed the tops. Then he nailed off alll the sheathing that we set today.
I extended trust so he could be trustworthy, and I believe he now is.
Had three safety speaches 5 mins apart this morn, and it wasn't his first time using the gun.
5-11 147lbs 13 yo damn good helper he erns more than I pay him, but he eats for free, and that ain't cheap.She said, "Tell me, are you a christion child?"
I Said, "Ma'am I am tonight" from, Walking in Memphis
November 18th, be the walker
Ive been faced many times with the same questions.
Im raising my grandson and hes with me every minute out of school which means every summer .
Hes 12 yrs old but hes only 75lbs . [notice the difference with yours]
Hes damn good help and he wants to do it .
Ive been faced with the same questions and have reluctantly made cloices one by one . Big ATV, lawn mowers , weed eaters , jig saws, sawsalls, grinders, guns, etc. on and on. Scares the hell out of me but I always say things like this can kill you! This can take your foot right off or your hand . You wont get it back so dont loose it . It scared me more than him. Hes very careful though and doesnt like getting hurt so hes listened well.
This last summer I was too cheap to hire roofers on a rental. With my health there was no way I could do it alone but with this kid I tackeled it . Hes only 4 ft tall at that weight so he looks closer to 9 than 12. Very small kid.
Heres the story;
I was sitting on the peak of the house under a shade tree watching him nail shingles with a gun . A lady drove by and put her hands to her mouth. I kept getting those type reactions from passersby. LIke that MF has his kid on the roof and hes a baby.
We traded jobs on and off mostly keeping the nailer going boom boom boom. The other would feed shingles so when he was nailing I could watch every one being gauged and nailed. While I was carrying shingles up he would lay them out on the roof after undressing the bundles. Hes not strong enough to cut a shingle cleanly to show how small he is but hes great help .
The peoples stares left me wondering if I was nuts for doing it .
On another subject of the topic.
This grandkid is my kid. The other grandkids which have mothers , theres no way I would do any of this stuff. The mothers would blame me for life . They already trust me with their kids life and I appreciate that as they think I will sheild them from anything . I would hate to let them down on that one.
Tim Memphest 2006
November 18th
I have a 4.5 year old that has his own safety glasses and ear protectors. He is ok on all forms of screw drivers, hammers, impact drivers and cordless drills with the torque turned down. I have helped guide him with a jigsaw, but he is going to be a while on the circ saw, router and table saw. in fact, by the time he is ready for the table saw I may cave in and get a sawstop saw. ever since I got my ez-smart my table saw has been gathering dust.
hmmm
My daughters were in the shop from infants on. Kate can do ANYTHING. At seven she was watching the neighbor build his garage and and warned him of the cord of his saw being under the sheet he was cutting. She told him to throw the cord over his shoulder so he can't cut it. That was almost thirty years ago, the neighbor still laughs about it.
As I read all the arguments for and against the age issue . The question asked is why is a kid on the job or shop using power tools? Is speed important? Shouldn't they learn on hand tools? The real answer is time. Every thing you do around your kids isn't always class time. You aren't kicking back so much as to get your work done. If I'm hanging sheetrock, I can let my kid drive some screws, without breaking out the bits and brace;). We make some decisions based on the factors and precedents WE create. Fun time can be hand tools. Or scroll saws, sanders, and such. Nail guns in all shapes and sizes are very common, much more so than 10 years ago. A lot of adults own them that probably shouldn't use them. Its a matter of trust and maturity to use any tool.
I'm one of those adults who probably shouldn't use them. I think you manly men may underestimate your strength. I've misfired our PC framer a time or two, once into my thumb quite some distance away (holding the board) where it bounced off the bone, and a lot of it is a matter of strength and the weight you have to put behind it. It's fairly easy to fire properly if you are sheathing a roof and gravity is on your side, but when you are nailing something up over your head from a ladder, it's another story. The thing bounces up and over and ends up pointing in a completely different direction. My daughter will be using the cordless sweat powered hammer for a long time until she is mature enough as well as heavy and strong enough to manage a pneumatic nailer.
Kids and nail guns? That doesn't make any sense to me.
I've hired grown men that I wouldn't allow to handle a saw or nailgun. Why should they touch a nail gun if they can't claim to be an expert with a hammer or handsaw?
If the kids want to learn about tools, they can devote thousands of hours on their handsaws, hammers, block planes and chisels.
Kids should be playing baseball or soccer.
I guess I'm not one of those "cool" dads.
blue
My 6 yr old plays soccer, hockey, baseball, rides his bike, is a fish in the water and does all those things.
But when it comes to tools, he wants at em. he's got the desire, and the aptitude. he has 2 of his own hand saws, and his own tool belt with hammer tape and chalk line ( no chalk yet :) ...oh the mess he could make with that....
when he's ready for bigger stuff at what ever age...it will come, when it comes.
my 4 yr old... does not have the same aptitude, or attention span, and will never be ready for the same things, at the same ages as the older one.
every kid is different, as well as adults, some have no patience for handling a crew let alone kids with tools.
"I've hired grown men that I wouldn't allow to handle a saw "We understand about your saw
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I wouldn't handle his saw either..
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A power tool, is just like any other device. You have to be taught how to respect it, and use it properly.
But, if you avoid the subject all together, and not teach a child the respect and use of a tool, then you are doing them a disservice.
My father is not a patient man, so he was not one for teaching the use of a tool. I learned on my own without supervision. Not the ideal situation.
I learned how to use most power tools while my father was at work, and I would go into his shop and "play" with one. Not a very smart thing to do, but kids will watch parents / adults "play with big boy toys" and want in on the action. I tired out just about every tool imaginable. And have some scares to show for it.
So whenever I am using tools, and a child is near that is interested, I demonstrate the use, and let them try out a few things. This eventually builds up to the point where the child/teen/young adult has full confidence, and ability to use the tool properly. Then you move on to the next aggresive tool.
Tools I would not allow a child to use are jointer, table saw, and circular saw.
"Tools I would not allow a child to use are jointer, table saw, and circular saw."Why? At an acceptable age any kid could learn to use a jointer, or Table saw? Tomorrow I'm teaching my lesson on the Jointer to my Wood 1 class. Grades 9-12. The jointer is a pretty safe machine when adjusted for light passes and the guards and pushsticks are use. The table saw is in two weeks... with the guard!Sometimes desire to use the tools overcomes the inability. Good instruction helps too.
Well, maybe I should say MY tablesaw.
Most of the tools I use ( and probably a lot of others) no longer have the safety guards. A lot of the tablesaw guards are so klunky they get in the way more than they help.
To me High schoolers arent children. Their teens.
I would let teenages use those tools, but only under constant supervision. Whereas drills, routers, scroll saws, etc wouldnt require adult supervision.
Blue,
Look at all the posts from people who can't find find help worth having on the job. That is a concequence of 1-2 generations of parents who thought kids sole function was to entertain themself or be entertained.
Kids need to be exposed to working with their hands & tools or we will be a country of azz sitters in front of computers. ( all ready well on the way there).
OTH, I certainly hope those pictures of young'uns with nail guns were posed with power off the compressor. Some adults need instruction too.If you have a problem, don't just talk do something to set it right.
Jim Andersen
You've raised a very important point: far too many of my own generation, much less my kids' generation, are @ss-sitters already. Well practiced and trained at it too!
Teaching kids to use tools is just commonsense. Basic tool use is a basic life skill, for girls and boys alike. Parents who have those skills themselves and don't teach them to their kids are doing everybody, including their own kids, a great disservice. So many people wander around in the world without even a basic appreciation of how things work or how they're put together. Why would a parent be comfortable permitting their child to be so ignorant and vulnerable?
And it has to start young. School teaches kids to be passive and can discourage natural curiosity. Friends, sports, TV and video games take over before you know it.
The decisions about if and when to move to power tools are going to be completely kid-specific. It depends on their maturity, aptitude and interest, and your own ability to train.
My son just turned four and he can handle a hammer surprisingly well. He doesn't have the arm strength to use a cordless drill by himself yet, but it won't be too many years from now- after he masters the brace and bit. Corded and air-powered tools will be strictly off limits until he's shown their proper use and has demonstrated proficiency- and an understanding of what can go wrong- with me standing right beside him. And I won't be taking any chances with him "playing" with them when I'm away at work- the shop has a lockable disconnect.
Myself, it was hand tools since birth and the lathe, milling machine and bandsaw unattended by ten. I've still got all my important pieces. But I was a weird kid!
My view is that "actions" do not necessarily always cause a bad result..... sometimes it is the re-action, or lack therof, that has a greater effect on the end result.
Here's my personal yardstick......for almost everything kid related.......using power tools, driving, using firearms, staying home alone.........and I explain it this way to them.
Anyone can do "fill in the blank" if EVERYTHING goes perfectly acording to plan, how will they re-act in the case where something does not.
Be it a kick-back, a mis-fire, a jambed carthridge, a broken down car, or the idiot that just ran the stop sign and came in front of them.......these are all situations where their re-action directly influences the outcome.
Rather than their age, it is their individual matutity and ability to adjust to, and handle, the unexpected, that will inspire me w/ the confidence to let them do "whatever".
Without reading through the entire thread, my response ....which may already have been mentioned....is that it all depends on the individual child.
I've got 4.
I wouldn't let my 14 yo daughter use any power tools to this point.
My 12 yo daughter used the 12" miter saw to chop over 200 spindles for a rail I (we) was building.
I'd likely allow my 6 yo son to use a nail gun with my supervision.
My 4 yo won't be allowed around power tools for many more years.
Know the child.
Know his/her capabilities.
Then and only then will you know if they're old enough to use them.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Look!
Some children should never be allowed to use power tools.All children are equal, therefore no child should be allowed to use power tools.
Look!
Some adults should never train children to use power tools.All adults are equal, therefore no adult should teach children to use power tools.
I'm from the government, and I'm here to protect you.
"All children are equal, therefore no child should be allowed to use power tools."But some children or more equal than others <G>.