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Air Bubbles in Joint compound

cargin | Posted in Construction Techniques on July 18, 2008 05:06am

All

I had a frustrating day with air bubbles in joint compound today.

I tried new bucket of regular JC and I whipped it lightly with about 6 oz of water.

I tried new bucket of lightweight JC and I whipped it longer with no water.

I was careful to keep my blades in the bucket and not trap more air bubbles with the whipping.

Do any of you have any tricks for getting rid of air bubbles?

Thanks

Rich

 

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Replies

  1. ruffmike | Jul 18, 2008 07:51am | #1

    Mix it slow and don't mix it much. Whipping is for cream. ; ^ )

                                Mike

        Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.

  2. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Jul 18, 2008 11:28am | #2

    Do any of you have any tricks for getting rid of air bubbles?

    Put the lid on tight, then squeeze the bucket and "burp" the lid, just like Tupperware.

  3. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Jul 18, 2008 11:35am | #3

    Or...you could buy another bucket of mud and start over...with a potato masher. 

    I don't do enough taping to try power mixing.  Seems like you proved my theory on that to be correct. 

    Actually, I've been more concerned that I'd end up decorating myself and the walls with whipped mud. 



    Edited 7/18/2008 4:44 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter

  4. Jim_Allen | Jul 18, 2008 12:06pm | #4

    I always mixed mine with the holehawg on slow.

    Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

  5. Piffin | Jul 18, 2008 01:00pm | #5

    the problem I see is the word whipping.

    slow down and caress her.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  6. Jer | Jul 18, 2008 01:49pm | #6

    What Jim & Piffin said.

  7. cargin | Jul 18, 2008 03:24pm | #7

    All

    Thank you for you replies and your help. I really do apprieciate it when people take the time to respond when I am having a problem.

    I found this over at JLC. I did a site search at FHB and at BT 1st.

    This pretty well describes what was happening yesterday. We are fixing a DIY's projects. I was trying to put a final coat over setting compound/drywall/plaster. When I think about it it was the areas with the painted plaster that were giving me the most trouble.



    Bubbling Skim Coat

    Q. How can the bubbling be eliminated when skim-coating joint compound over a painted surface?

    A. Van Perrine, of U.S. Gypsum Co., responds: Compared with an unpainted drywall surface, a painted surface has essentially been "sealed." The compound contains air that has to escape as it dries. With unpainted drywall, the air can escape both through the drywall surface and out into the air. When the drywall is sealed with paint, all the air has to escape outward, and it tends to create the small air bubbles you mention. There’s nothing you can do but add successive thin skim coats of compound and lightly sand between coats until smooth.

    jasoncring

    Veteran Contributor

     

    Join Date: Jun 2005

    Location: Perth, Australia

    Posts: 1,087

    Re: What causes this?


    Lawrence, I think you missed it. He's not talking about tape blistering. They've got bubbles in the mud on either side of the tape where they build the joint out wider.

    Chuck, it's the coca-cola effect. A painted surface is not porous like drywall paper. The change in the mud temperature effected by the warmer ceiling will cause the disolved air in the compound to outgas. On unpainted drywall, the gas is able to dissapate through the face paper and not form "seeds" (like you'll see on the bottom of a pot of water as it nears boiling point), but not so on a painted surface.

    Over-whipping the mix might add to the problem, but I think the notion of mixing air into the mud is too frequently offered as an explanation for this phenomenon, and leads people on a fruitless (and potentially expensive) search for better mixing methods.

    To stop this from happening, you would have to:

    1- place the mud in a vaccuum to release the disolved gasses, or
    2- heat the mud until it's warmer than the ceiling and keep it warmer while working, or
    3- Trowel repeatedly until the bubbles disappear (if the fill is shallow enough), or
    4- Accept it. Sand off the bubble tops and fill.

    It's like when you chug a coke, you'll belch back up 10 times more air than it felt like you swallowed as it heats up in your gut. I might be way off base with this explanation, but that's the best theory I can offer you.

    Rich

    1. cargin | Jul 18, 2008 03:27pm | #8

      All

       I thought that I had read one time ( in one of the tips columns) of someone putting a drop of dish soap or vinegar in the bucket to help break the surface tension of the air bubbles.

      But no one came forth with that advice so I probably just dreamt that one up.

      Rich

      1. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Jul 18, 2008 04:57pm | #9

        The old timer I first watched do taping always poured about one gallon of water on top of the remaining joint compound in the bucket before quitting for the day.  He'd scrape down the inside of the bucket, then smooth the top of mud, before adding the water and putting the lid on top. 

        I figured he was just stopping crust from forming on the insides of the bucket but it may also have worked to bleed air out of the mix.  

        Whatever his motive, it's a good practice for keeping the mud fresh and free from those little bastard grains of hardened mud that seem to pop up on the last pass, leaving a four foot scratch.

        Pour the water off in the morning, into an empty pail, and do a quick mix with the masher.  The small amount of water which has penetrated the surface is just enough to freshen the mix. 

        1. cargin | Jul 19, 2008 04:48pm | #24

          Hudson

          I try to scaspe down the side of the bucket after every trip to the bucket.

          Doesn't take look for the dried stuff to show up.

          The water over the top is a good idea. Especially for a guy like me who may leave a bucket in the shop for weeks at a time.

          Rich

      2. Jim_Allen | Jul 18, 2008 05:25pm | #10

        I use dishsoap. I never related it's use to eliminating bubbles though. I pour a couple ozs into a bucket...maybe up to 4 ozs. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

      3. mrfixitusa | Jul 18, 2008 06:01pm | #12

        Thank you - I learned something new today

      4. bjbatlanta | Jul 18, 2008 06:59pm | #14

        I've bee in the drywall business for 30+ yrs and always add a couple of squirts of lemon Joy to my mud. Whether it helps with the "craters" or not, it makes makes the mud pull easier. And as the JLC post said, you can't avoid bubbling when going over plaster or oil based paint. Sand and pull another tight coat.

        1. User avater
          Heck | Jul 19, 2008 05:01am | #20

          Just wondering, have you ever used the soap in setting compound?

          Would it do the same thing? 

                 

          1. bjbatlanta | Jul 19, 2008 08:08am | #21

            Actually, I have. Helped a bunch with the old Durabond type compound. I use the newer "easy sand" stuff now of course. Mostly patch work, a pan of 20 min at a time. I do mix the occasional 1/2 bucket and give it a shot of Joy. As said before, it really makes the mud "slicker"/easier to pull. I have some issues with arthritis, shoulder problems, etc. after all these years, so anything that makes it easier..... I strictly hand finish, but learned the "trick" from a guy who ran tools. Said it made running the bazooka and boxes a lot easier.

          2. User avater
            Heck | Jul 19, 2008 04:14pm | #22

            I use more setting compound than I do box mud, I'll remember to give the Joy a try next time, thanks. 

                   

    2. Mooney | Jul 18, 2008 05:57pm | #11

      That was a good answer you got over there .

      When it starts happening thin the coats.

      Other than that it will still happen but you need to stop looking at it becasue it will be minute. Its time for a painter to take care of it . A heavy coat of good latex  paint will seal it . Put a little texture effect in it by using a heavy nap roller being 1 inch to  1 1/2. When that dries you will have a slight roller texture that will hide minute blemishes. The small holes will be filled with paint and not be noticebale  .

      Tim  

      1. User avater
        popawheelie | Jul 19, 2008 04:53pm | #26

        That's a good point about the painter fixing it. After there is a coat of paint on drywall mud those pesky little holes are much easier to fix.

         

        Edited 7/19/2008 9:56 am ET by popawheelie

  8. JTC1 | Jul 18, 2008 06:50pm | #13

    Tiny bubbles?

    I usually just make another pass with the knife, exerting a little more pressure this time. 

    Not another coat after drying, another pass immediately - usually they go away.

    My .02 worth.

    Jim

    Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
    1. cargin | Jul 18, 2008 09:01pm | #15

      JT and All

      I am not a dry wall pro, but we do most of our own in the remodeling business.

      I confirmed this morning that most of the bubbles showed up on the plaster side of the joint.

      I find that if I change the angle of the knife to close to 90 degrees then I can eliminate most of the bubbles. That's hard to do in the 1st couple of coats because I am usually trying to build a little in the middle. Turning the knife to 90 degrees stiffens the blade and doesn't allow it to flex over the paper or fibertape.

      With the skim coat the 90 degree method works pretty well. Yesterday I would trowel an area and it looked great. Then before my eyes the bubbles would start to appear. It worked best if I came back a few minutes later and lightly troweled over it.

      That only works with skim coats and not for use on fill coats.

      I find the bubbles hard to fill in the succeeding coats. It's like it doesn't want to go into the tiny holes.

      I didn't post over at JLC (I am not registered) I just looked around and found a couple of answers.

      Thanks to All for the help. i try alittle soap this afternoon.

      Rich 

      1. User avater
        basswood | Jul 18, 2008 09:27pm | #16

        The taper who does the best work around here swears by this stuff:http://directory.qualifiedremodeler.com/productguide/Spackling_Compound/No_Pock_Pro_24902.htmlI have no idea if it works better than dish soap.

        1. rasher | Jul 19, 2008 01:10am | #17

          Use a high-build primer/sealer designed for concealing small flaws and you won't need to worry about the bubbles. The primer will fill 'em and level 'em.

          1. cargin | Jul 19, 2008 04:55pm | #27

            rasher

            I have been called back to small jobs to patch the holes.

            It is not unusal for us to install a tub/shower, patch the walls and the flaws and the HO will do the painting.

            So I have to be concerned about "Tiny Bubbles". Kind of sounds like a song.

            Rich 

        2. cargin | Jul 19, 2008 04:52pm | #25

          basswood

          Thanks. I have never seen that or any other "mud modifier", but that's not saying much for our area.

          I'll keep my eyes open next time I am in a big box store, or I'll order some online.

          Rich

  9. ponytl | Jul 19, 2008 02:30am | #18

    since i'm on my 5th pallet of mud (54 boxes to a pallet) in the last 10 days... I toss in what i know TODAY...  not all mud is the same.... my finishers refuse to use the green box stuff... the red boxes are good...   i've been through 4 brands (pick'n up 8-10 boxes when they were run'n short before the truck could deliver... and each time anything from a big box store they were not pleased with... because of "deee bub-bells".....

    now in the past i have posted when i finish drywall i use liquid soap in my mix... maybe 3oz to a box... and i have had good results with any type mud doing so...  but i'm not about to try to tell guys who do this all day everyday how i "do something"  i just get them the material they like working with... i've found this is the cheapest thing you can do on a job... removes all blame...

    good luck the soap might help

    p

    1. Snort | Jul 19, 2008 02:37am | #19

      It's funny, I've been in building for a while... usta see a bunch of little bottles of Joy laying around after the finishers were finished. Haven't seen any for maybe 5 years... thought it was cause the sanders were coming back with tears in their eyes<G> Now you see this one-eyed midget

      Shouting the word "NOW"

      And you say, "For what reason?"

      And he says, "How?"

      And you say, "What does this mean?"

      And he screams back, "You're a cow

      Give me some milk

      Or else go home"

    2. cargin | Jul 19, 2008 04:45pm | #23

      ponytl

      Holy Buckets Batman

      That's 27 boxes of mud a day!!!

      You must have an army of finishers, with an accent.

      Are doing an apartment complex or what?

      Thanks for your 2 cents.

      We use mostly the green buckets of All Purpose.

      Rich

      1. ponytl | Jul 20, 2008 01:55am | #31

        i have a mountain of empty boxes...  I'm not complaining these guys use a ton of mud but ... it's slick finish everywhere and alot of corner bead returns... they are floating out joints sometimes up to 24"... and skim coating where needed....

        the place is a mess...  frick'n mud & dust everywhere...  picked up a pallet thursday... there were 8 boxes of some mud they didn't like still there... as of this afternoon it's all gone  even 4 boxes of the "bub-bell"  mud....

        thats the only reason we aren't working in the morning... no mud...   most of the downstairs is ready to sand... and everything up is taped except the stairway to the penthouse/roof deck... 

        i got there at 645am... left at 430  only stopped once for a drink at 2pm... and  i hung by myself the downstairs of one small unit... the hangers worked til 9pm a few nites last week because they had another job they had to be on friday... they got 18 units and all comman areas done alot of which has 18ft ceilings.... so i said it was cool i'd hang the last unit...  someone please remind me i have no business hang'n 12ft 5/8" board all day... the hard part is done on the one i'm hang'n alone... should be able to finish my hanging in about 5-6 more hours... but i don't want to hang any more... but know i will hang the projection wall of my theater mainly so i can play with where the bulk of the wiring needs to go for the projector & equipment... and so the insulation guys can get back in and sound proof that room...

        fun for me

        p

        1. cargin | Jul 20, 2008 02:22am | #32

          ponytl

          So bring up to speed on what you are building.

          18 units and a theatre? A dorm?

          Rich

          1. ponytl | Jul 20, 2008 02:59pm | #33

            it has to be the longest ongoing project on the board .... (not counting personal homes) .... even has the honor of being the offical site of  "memphis fest"   might be the only project that ever hosted a "fest"

            it's my condo conversion project... a 1800's river merchant building that was on the banks of the mississippi river  (before they built the flood wall system)  you've seen the old pics of people & mules  haul'n freight up the banks of the river from flat boats and side wheelers ... they hauled it up to these buildings... this is the last one left in this area... maybe anywhere....

            20 condo units one of which will be mine... (where the theater is seats 60 stadium style)..... my project... my design... my labor.... @ my pace....  pretty sure i'm in my 5th or 6th year  maybe longer... i've had the building for over 12yrs....  and have drawings i did for it in 1998....  but full time i have been on it for over 4yrs i know... just now at the finishing the drywall stage in 19 units... my unit has not been hung since all the materials to finish out the 19 are stored & stacked there...  prob a month away from hang'n my unit...

            p

          2. cargin | Jul 20, 2008 03:39pm | #34

            ponytl

            All I can say is WOW.

            Good Luck

            Hope you move in some day. LOL

            I know how those things can drag on. Your own place is always last.

            Rich

    3. FCOH | Jul 19, 2008 06:36pm | #28

      So how exacltly do you get the mud out of the box without making a mess all over yourself?

      Much easier to scoop it out of a 5 gal for me.  I always end up wasting about 1/4 of the bag when I try out of a box.

      1. User avater
        popawheelie | Jul 19, 2008 07:33pm | #29

        I learned to use the plastic buckets for mixing, water, etc.

        But the boxes are cheaper so you take the mud and dump it into the bucket.

        Open up the top of the box and the plastic. Take the plastic down around the box so all the plastic wraps right back down around the sides.

        Then you just dump it into the bucket. Try not to let it plop to much or it could plash you.

        The one water bucket is for clean up. Wash your hands and your done.

      2. cargin | Jul 19, 2008 10:05pm | #30

        FCOH

        I always lift the plastic bag out of the box. Cut the bottom of the bag and squeeze it out like frosting.

        That way if there is any dried crumbs near the top they stay with the bag.

        That being said, i always but the bucket for convience and to have extra buckets around.

        Rich

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