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Air chambers

Tark | Posted in Construction Techniques on May 3, 2008 06:26am

Hi Everyone,

About three years ago, I remodeled our bathroom. The supplies to the toilet and vanity all had air chambers off their respective angle stops as part of the original plumbing. The original shower valve did not have air chambers, and when I replaced the shower valve I did not add air chambers.

Although we did not experience it before the remodel, we do from time-to-time, now experience water hammer at the shower valve.

I have access to the plumbing from the back wall, although getting air chambers next to the shower valve might be a bit tricky/crowded. Can I add air chambers to the hot and cold supplies leading to the shower valve, but about 18 inches away from the valve and would that solve my water hammer problems?

Or should I bit the bullet and make room for air chambers next to the shower valve.

Thanks,

Tark

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Replies

  1. User avater
    BillHartmann | May 03, 2008 04:55pm | #1

    Air chambers are worthless. After a couple of months the air is
    absorbed into the water.

    Sealed hammer arrestors are what are needed.

    http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/PPP-SWA-500-1-2-Sweat-Water-Hammer-Arrestor/39726/Cat/240

    But EXACTLY what are you experiencing.
    How, where, when?

    A lot of water "hammer" is
    not water hammer.

    .
    .
    A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
    1. Tark | May 03, 2008 06:07pm | #2

      Hi Bill,"But EXACTLY what are you experiencing.
      How, where, when?A lot of water "hammer" is
      not water hammer."The water hammering we are experiencing only occurs when the shower valve is in use. Its does not happen all the time. When it does occur, we either turn the valve off and then on again or we turn on the vanity faucet for a moment. Either of these relieves the water hammering. Sometimes it returns a minute later and sometimes it does not. . .About a year ago, the water hammer was really bad else where in the building, but it was determined that the pressure regulator at the entrance of the building was not longer working. We had 100 pounds of pressure at that time. Water pressure now is at 30 pounds.The water arrestor product is interesting. If I were to use that, could it still be located 18 - 24 inches away from the shower valve?

      1. BoJangles | May 03, 2008 06:38pm | #3

        Do what Bill said!  We install them on every home we build and never have a problem with water hammering.

        You really don't have to have them too close to the problem area.  Make sure they are accessable for future service if needed.

      2. User avater
        BillHartmann | May 03, 2008 09:32pm | #4

        You don't have water hammer.Water hammer is caused when you have fast moving water that is suddenly stopped with a fast acting valve is closed. The water is not compressable it and "slams" into the pipes and makes a bang and if the pipes are somewhat loose then they will rattel for a few sections afterward.Most commonly seen on washing washings when they end a fill. But a toilet with a fuildmaster type of valve can also cause it.The hammer arrestor is basically a shock absorber that will cushion that sudden stop. The closer to the valve the better. But I would think that anything with 2-3 ft would work. And even a little more they would still help.What it sounds like you have, however, is "something" that is loose in the flow of water. That something can move around and temporary block the flow of water, then when flow stops are slow it releases and the cycle repeats. Depending on the material that is moving, water pressure, water flow, etc it can vary from a slow junk drum beat to a machine gun sound to a whistle sound.The most common source of this, in older compression faucets, is a loose washer. But it could be mineral buildup in the shower head, debree in the lines, etc. Note, some of the new show controls have builtin stop valve that have washers. Could be the problem, but not as likely.A hammer arrestor will not "fix" this problem. But it can may or MAY NOT change the conditions where you get the noise so it might "go away". Or it might get worse..
        .
        A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

        1. Tark | May 04, 2008 03:00am | #6

          Thank you for your insight and advice.Sounds like I should take the shower valve apart and check for any debris in the cartridge or just change the cartridge altogether. It's a new (3 year old) Delta single handle with anti-scald and balancing, with internal shut off valves on it, so changing it would be a snap.Thanks. I let everyone know how it works out.Tark

  2. MSA1 | May 03, 2008 11:51pm | #5

    You only need them where you have a snap action valve (like a dishwasher or a washing machine). You can use the fluid filled ones from Lowes or Depot. The simple air chambers made from an extra piece of pipe with a cap will fill up and be useless eventually.

  3. toolman65 | May 05, 2008 06:22am | #7

    Does the banging occur @ 100% hot? What about @ 100% cold?

    If it only happens with hot water I suggest you look at your Hot Water Tank. The Tank may be sending sediment into the line in small batches.
    Newer shower valves have mesh screens on their intake ports and are much more sensitive to debris than their predecessors. Clean the valves, drain a gallon of water from the tank and see if it helps.

    Another possibility is that the turbulence of the water moving though the pipes is causing the pipes to vibrate enough to create the hammer sound. Could you get a helper to turn the taps on and off rapidly while you observe from your access hatch? Insulating the pipes from the surrounding framing may be the answer.

    Also, are there many changes in direction of the pipes before they reach the valve? Elbows reek havoc with flow rates.

    Finally...and this may be a long shot, is the water in the tank so hot that you are introducing steam into the system? Perhaps the TPR valve on the HWT needs replacing.

    Best of luck, toolman65

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