Replies

1. 
   TLRice | Dec 08, 2003 09:49pm | #1

   Snake-oil, pure and simple. I read most every engineering and scientific journal related to air, air quality, air filtering and the like. The only place you will ever hear or read of this "new technology" is in reference to the LifeBreath products. For me, that's not good enough.

2. 
   DavidThomas | Dec 09, 2003 02:39am | #2

   I checked out their web pages.  Various true factoids are in there.  Like the facts that simple filters remove most the mass, the largest number of particles are quite small.  And that small particles are most damaging to humans (because they get deep into our lungs and largely don't come out).  But that's true, (and scare tactics) regardless of whether their box is worth the money.

   I agree with Tim that it is hype.  It's a HEPA filter, no more, no less.  The clever use of the word "Precipitator" is deceiving because it is NOT an electrostatic precipitator.  EPs were a real breakthrough in air treatment, and initially used in industrial settings.  If you want high indoor air quality, go to any number of legimate vendors of home-scale EPs.  In that technology, an electrical charge is placed on the small particles and then an electric field causes them to be pulled from the air stream.  Straight-forward, works, not cheap, but vastly better quality of life for an asthma sufferer.

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
1. 
   JohnSprung | Dec 09, 2003 02:54am | #3

   The two I see advertised are "Living Air" and "Ionic Breeze" from Sharper Image.  Anyone know if these are any good?

   -- J.S.

1. 
   DavidThomas | Dec 09, 2003 03:11am | #4

   No, I was thinking of a whole-house unit.  So all the air going through your ductwork (for heating or A/C) is treated on every pass.  Couple of grand, installed.  Those $69 book-sized units probably won't hurt anything, but no way could they address the air in just one room.

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

1. 
   JohnSprung | Dec 09, 2003 03:52am | #5

   Living Air claims to do the whole house, but with a freestanding unit not connected to the HVAC system.  They're about $800 IIRC, so the question is purely academic in my case.

   -- J.S.

1. 
   DavidThomas | Dec 09, 2003 03:59am | #6

   "Living Air claims to do the whole house" 

   And why not?  You can't SEE if it working or not.

   Would you heat a whole house from one unit in one room with no duct work?  Wouldn't it get really warm next to the heater and really cold at the far end of the house? 

   Cynically,

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

2. 
   fortdh | Dec 10, 2003 04:25am | #7

   John, The October issue of Consumer Reports compares 36 air cleaners for dust removal, smoke removal, airflow resistance (if in a forced air system), and noise(if a room air cleaner).The price and annual operating costs are also included.

   To specifically answer your question re: Ionic Breeze, it was # 35 (just shy of garbage can), cost $350 to purchase, $4/yr to operate, and did a poor job of any removal in its assigned area of 14 sq ft. It did score well in noise level, but so did a pet rock!

   The top spot winners were in three categories:

   * Prof. installed central air types, ranging in 10 year cost for purchase and operating(my way of pricing their numbers) from $800 to $4100.

   The best bang for buck in that group IMO, was the Trane Perfect Fit at $600 purchase, plus 10x$18==$780 for 10 years.

   * DIY basically replacement filters. The 3M filtrete filters and the Precisionaire Microparticle would cost $320 to $600 for 10 year use. The 3M Ultra 1250 performed ($600/10 yrs) almost as well as the Lennox central system at $4100.

   For households without severe health problems, I reccommend oversized or extra return air filter grilles with good pleated filters such as the 3m or Precisionaire Micro. The oversizing or extra returns, increases the surface area for dust entrapment, at lower entering air velocity, and lessons air flow resistance. We put in the 3M 1250 for fall and spring (pollen time here) and use the lower cost pleated filters for the rest of the year. Note, the 3M and many other brands cost one price regardless of size, a 12x12 same as a 30x30, go figure.

   * The Friedich c-90 room air cleaner did the best of that category, cost $500 to purchase, $560 for operating 10 years plus $720 for filters. So, about $1800 over 10 years to handle 480 sq ft.

   PaulEnergy Consultant and author of Practical Energy Cost Reduction for the Home

1. 
   VaTom | Dec 10, 2003 05:05am | #8

   Note, the 3M and many other brands cost one price regardless of size, a 12x12 same as a 30x30, go figure.

   That's right.  Surprised me when I saw it at the big box.  My solution for our little system was to cut a big filter in half, halving my costs.  If you're cobbling the system together it's no problem at all.  Bandsaw works great.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

1. 
   MajorWool | Dec 14, 2003 02:27pm | #9

   With the new little one in the house I went to premium filters in the furnaces and it has made a significant difference. It is one of those items that I check at the big boxes and when they are on sale/closeout I will grab a bunch.

   I also believe that a good cleaning helps as well. I just rented a steam cleaner to do the carpets and was shocked at how much dirt remains in the carpet even after vacuuming. Some of that dirt goes airborne each day as you walk around, so why not attack it at the source. We also went to separate outdoor and indoor shoes to cut down on tracking dirt and debris into the house. I'm thinking of investing in one of those $300 Hoover upright steamers. I had borrowed one from a friend before and it did a pretty good job. Anyone with an indoor pet needs one of these. It would be much nicer to do a room at a time at my leisure rather than trying to cram as much as possible into one 24 hr rental period, plus with all rooms wet at once it takes forever to dry out.

   I even got premium bags for the old Hoover upright (25 years and still ticking) and really noticed the difference they made. No more sneezing as I vacuumed.

   Does the original poster have a specific health concern that needs to be addressed?

2. 
   fortdh | Dec 16, 2003 04:24am | #10

   Whenever vacuuming, we run the forced air system fan so that the dust created is at least drawn/trapped at the return air filters. The fairly new vac we have has three filters, and there is no dust smell, much better than our old vac. PaulEnergy Consultant and author of Practical Energy Cost Reduction for the Home

2. 
   rjw | Dec 16, 2003 06:45am | #11

   David, how do you feel about EPs versus the thick 6" Space Guard type pleated paper filters?

   The HVAC folks around here are pushing the Space Guard types, saying they're "better" (but I don't know exactly what their basis for that claim is -cost? Cost/benefit? Maintenance?)

   _______________________

   Tool Donations Sought

   I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in January (we hope) and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.

   Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim for their offers!

1. 
   DavidThomas | Dec 17, 2003 01:01am | #12

   "how do you feel about EPs versus the thick 6" Space Guard type pleated paper filters?"

   Any kind of pleated filter is going to do great on the big chunks and the newer filters (just like newer automotive oil filters) have advanced in recent years.  And whatever they cost, it's not much compared to the health benefits.  I don't know if Consumer Reports has compared them, but I'd look to a impartial, knowledgable source like that to choose among them.

   EP's cost a bunch more to install and a bit of electricity to operate.  They do so well on small particles (an electrical charge on  a small particle in a mag field will make that small mass move).

   I don't have an answer for you.  Mostly it's been outside my radar.  I do RFH when I build so there's little dust anywhere and even less being blown around.  For toxic worker safety, HEPA is what the regs say. 

   But from the medical side, I think we'll see this issue more and more.  20 years ago people started looking an PM10 (particles below 10 microns).  Now it is realized that the stuff that is a micron or two is worse than the 9 micron stuff.  I want work on sub-micron particles to be published.  That stuff goes deep into your lungs and doesn't come out again.

   People get so worked up about the increase in asthma.  What is the mystery?  It ain't vaccines or non-organic food or not going to church often enough.  As a population we increasingly live in paved urban areas (nowhere for the dust to settle, it blows around and around), we burn more and more fuels with the accompanying soot, our houses are so tight that cig and candle and food smoke and particles stay around for hours.  

   That stuff isn't good for you!  Get a good air cleaner, move out of the urban areas, don't allow smoking in the house, use the range hood when cooking, install an HRV, etc.  

   Stepping off my soapbox now,

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

3. 
   Jon_Snow | Oct 22, 2020 11:32am | #13

   In our society, there are too many items that pollute the air. So I moved out of town with my family. I'm still worried about my kids. I am convinced that clean air is a long life. That's why I want my children to breathe clean air.