Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 18, 2003 06:49am | #1

   There's a product called Cedarbreather you can use to create a drainage plane

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   urbanmr | Jul 18, 2003 07:07am | #2

   Thanks!  I'll look into this.

2. 
   andybuildz | Jul 18, 2003 03:16pm | #3

   Cedarbreather here on L.I costs about $100 for two square (200 sq ft.).

   I've used it on roofs but it seems kind of expensive to do on an entire house.

   If your neighbors have had water/moisture issues I'd probably go with 1x3 horizontal furring over 30# felt paper.

   If the cape isn't all the big then cedarbreather is easy and quick to install so that should save you money on labor.

   Be felt

              andy

    

    

   In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/18/2003 8:17:21 AM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)

1. 
   urbanmr | Jul 18, 2003 04:12pm | #4

   Andy-

   Thanks for your response.  One question:  if I was going the 1x3 over felt paper route--the one I was originally thinking about--any idea how to actually install the shingles?  would you also then install horizontal 1x3s as nailers for the shingles?  that's a lot of window/doorjamb extentions at trimout.  Ever had to deal with this?

   thanks,.

   Michael

1. 
   andybuildz | Jul 18, 2003 05:17pm | #5

   Horizontall....yep. At each course where you plan on nailing the shingles. If its perfections or a straight shingle with a say 5" exposure you'll probaby be nailing up an inch from that burying the nail with the bottom of the next course,so your 1x3's should fall in the center of those rows of nails.

    Sounds to me though you'd be better off with Cedarbreather or nothing at all.just felt paper. I don't think its all that necessay to use anything other than felt paper on the walls unless the houses near you have seen problems.

   HAve fun

               andy 

    

   In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   AndyEngel | Jul 18, 2003 06:06pm | #6

   Not sure you need to go the 1x3 route: Mason's lath provides 3/8 in. of air gap and it's cheaper than dirt.Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator

1. 
   urbanmr | Jul 19, 2003 01:34am | #7

   Now that's an interesting idea.  Stupid question:  mason's lath is galvanized, right?  what's the life expectancy of the galvanizing before it starts to rust?

   thanks for your help.

   Michael

2. 
   fdampier5 | Jul 19, 2003 03:39am | #8

   Not long.. cedar has tannins that cause most metal to rust badly..

3. 
   xMikeSmith | Jul 19, 2003 03:43am | #9

   on the Cape, i would bother with a rainscreen, i'd be using ply. sheathing, 15LB felt and  shingles nailed right to the felt with no lath or furring..

   if it was stucco or masonry, then i'd have a rainscreen..

    if it was wood shingles on a roof, then i'd have a rainscreen... cedar breatherMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

4. 
   urbanmr | Jul 19, 2003 05:08pm | #11

   thanks for your input.  what about the Cape makes you think you don't need an airspace?  are mold/moisture problems not so bad there?  I've never built on the Cape and am unfamiliar.  But I just want to make sure that I don't end up with those dark areas all over the house where the shingles didn't dry and are getting moldy.

   thanks again.

5. 
   xMikeSmith | Jul 19, 2003 07:33pm | #13

   1st.. are you talking about red cedar or white cedar ?

    2d... those blotchy areas have almost nothing to do with wether or not a rain screen is used..

   with any siding, the detailing you use will affect the drying more than rain screen.. for example.. most builders bring their siding right down to the horizontal or sloped surfaces.. this ensures that the butts never dry out and that capillary actio will suck up water into the siding.. use a flashing detail that allows you to show the flashing.. ie: don't use mill finish aluminum.. use colored coil stock or copper or lead coat copper.. keep your siding 3/4" off the surface

   next .. be aware of splash zones.. siding next to a deck with no gutters  or even with gutters will be in the splash zone and will weather faster than the rest of the siding

   be aware of design for overhangs.. these will affect the weathering.

    with red cedar.. and white cedar , nature has more effect on the blotchiness than anything else..

   if you  want the traditional Cape Cod look... use white cedar shingles and a bleaching oil mixed 50 /50 with a silver grey.. Cabots makes some good stains for this look..

    if you are using red cedar .. resign yourself to nature weathering them from silver grey to almost black...  The UV will have the most effect on the coloration..

   as to the CApe itself.. it isn't a rain forest.. the dryig times are long enough to dry SIDING all the way thru without a rainscreen.. as long as it can drry to both sides.. thus the 15 LB felt instead of tyvek.. some still swear by red rosin paper.. but 15 lb or 30 lb felt seems to be the consensus..

   on a pywood roof.. the ROOFING with wood shingles can stay wet long enough to create problems.. so i would use either a rainscreen ( like Cedar Breather ) or skip-sheathing under the wood shingles

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   Edited 7/19/2003 12:40:09 PM ET by Mike Smith

6. 
   urbanmr | Jul 19, 2003 08:01pm | #14

   thanks, Mike.  I really appreciate your time.  It's exactly the info. I needed.

   Michael

7. 
   andybuildz | Jul 20, 2003 04:40am | #15

   Mike

        In the  last house I built/renovated I used the white cedar (see my website below). Thing is though the one problem with it is, if its under any trees the rain and crap from the trees plays havoc with staining the cedar even when its treated.

    Most Capes in Cape Cod or the Vinyard or beach areas don't usually have that issue but its something to consider just in case.

   a 

    

   In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

8. 
   AndyEngel | Jul 23, 2003 05:06pm | #16

   No, not the metal stuff. I wouldn't wish working with that on my worst enemy. Mason's lath is rough sawn wood, often poplar, that's about 3/8 in. x 1 1/2 in. x 3 ft. Comes in bundles of 50 or so.Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator

9. 
   Luka | Jul 19, 2003 04:16am | #10

   I've been thinking old fashioned wooden plaster lath.

   Vertical pattern, about 3 inches apart, over 15 lb felt, over osb.

   Then a horizontal pattern on top of that, to coincide with the nailing pattern.

   This would give the intial coverage of the felt. Then the vertical pattern would allow any moisture to find it's way out. The horizontal pattern would be, of course, simply to have an unbroken nailing surface. Even where the nails would be going through the open space in the verticals, they would still be long enough to go into the osb beneath.

   An option is to just do the horizontal pattern, and leave breaks in the horizontals to allow moisture to find it's way down.

   With both the vertical, and the horizontal patterns on there, it is about equivalent to just a 1x3.

   Think I should paint the lath first ? Quick paint with sealer ? Etc...

   A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.

   Quittin' Time

3. 
   Warren | Jul 19, 2003 06:15pm | #12

   Check with any supplier of EIFS ( exterior insulation foam system) or  "fake stucco" for a fairly inexpensive  housewrap (tyveck)made by Dupont with vertical striations to create the drainage plane. This is required for many EIFS systems.  Then use horizontal furring strips which you have dadoed with a 3/8 inch deep x 3/4 inch wide opening about every 3 inches on center. You can create these with your stacked or wobble dado head and either your table saw or radial arm saw.  Treated 3/4 inch plywood works well for this and it is possible that a large roofing company may have this item in stock for the parapet vents in flat roof jobs.  This system will allow you to add rigid foam insulation over the housewrap. Foam board with vertical striations to create rain channels is available also from EIFS building suppliers.

   Good luck with your project.