Alternate building materials question.
I have read in a few different publications over the years, articles that talk about building houses from beer bottles to tires.
I’ve see houses from straw and mud, homemade brick houses, and I’m sure the list would grow if I tried enough.
I realize that these may make good efficient homes.
But do they have market value?
I have also pondered the idea of just buying a wooded lot and a bandsaw saw mill, and just starting to whittle at the trees until I get some boards, I’d love a solid oak house.
I also have pondered the totally earth covered house, well I’d have to leave some of it exposed for a door or two.
Anyway I’ve wondered about building a house on the absloute cheap for years. I just want something that has resale value, and is safe to live in.
Is it possible in the world of codes and standards?
Thanks for all your replys.
plumber_bob…
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi’s and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Replies
Make sure it has wheelchair ramps & is ADA compliant------- Hippies are getting old ;-)
Hippies are getting old
Last time I was in Marin County, those Hippie chicks still had hairy legs, but it was gray hair.
Old gross.........
Joe H
Damn, dude you pegged me!!! Was it my long hair? The shades? What?
I know I couldn't be obvious? LOL
Make sure it has wheelchair ramps & is ADA compliant------- Hippies are getting old ;-)
I see the future need for the ramps but, I think I did some ADA back in the 60's not sure tho. Oh that was LDS, nope wait it was........ well anyway it had initials and I was ahhhhhh... oh ya, young back then.....
But I am serious about if it is practical.
And I don't mean a house built from bongs!
Resale aspects might bring up issues!!! Not sure what they would be, but my spidy senses are tingling!
Thanks
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Some of the early FHB had straw bale houses discussed. Somewhere I saw exterior walls built with buckets filled with sand and metal lathe attached and stuccoed.
Some of the early FHB had straw bale houses discussed. Somewhere I saw exterior walls built with buckets filled with sand and metal lathe attached and stuccoed.
So with what you have seen are these houses marketable? I mean if, I built one, would it have value on the market?
I've got this thing that if I build it is it gonna be of value to others?
Let me rephrase this, can I build a house from recycled stuff and it be of value to others. "Marketable"?
How green can you get?
Not much of a question, but it can take some thought.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
I'm gonna look at the old issues I have and see if I can see any pics. The bales are covered with gunned conxcrete, I believe and the straw treated. It looks just like stucco or plaster to me.
These issues are around 83-84. I'll get back to you tomorrow.
Thanks man, I'll be looking forward to that.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Reminds me of the store that has a notice on one door saying "we buy junk"and the one on the other door says "We sell antiques"
"Reminds me of the store that has a notice on one door saying "we buy junk"and the one on the other door says "We sell antiques""
So, you've been by!
Sorry I missed ya.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Good luck in your quest!
Recycled materials = recycled = green = definitely marketable to a segment of the population.Just make sure it has some architectural integrity and obviously built to code. Now, if you're looking for mass market resellability, then, no. anything beyond a vinyl clad box will be seen as 'crazy' by 99% of all mortgage banks and will make it tough to sell on the open market.
"Now, if you're looking for mass market resellability, then, no. anything beyond a vinyl clad box will be seen as 'crazy' by 99% of all mortgage banks and will make it tough to sell on the open market."
That's about what I figured, some people are not as open minded as they could be. That is probably why I don't see much, creative building.
I guess I'd be better look at conventional materials and work on the super insulation angle then. :-(
I appreciate the reply!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
I guess I'd be better look at conventional materials and work on the super insulation angle then. :-(
No need to get down about working with conventional materials...like wood.
If you have the right situation, like building in an area that will support a creative design, you can expand your ideas considerably without concerns about the potential market.
It's becoming more clear, as this new century rolls along, that energy efficiency will be a key feature in marketing new homes, very soon.
We are fortunate to have several tax incentives to help us save money on those materials.
We also have the capital gains exclusion on profits from the resale of primary homes, to encourage us to build and sell, every few years. That's a topic which doesn't get much discussion here but it's certainly important to my retirement plans, has been since I was a sprout.
No need to get down about working with conventional materials...like wood.
I'm not as bummed as I made it sound. I guess I was looking to build something on the cheap and solid and.....
I came close to building a house about 12 years ago, my plan was to buy a portable bandsaw sawmill to cut my lumber from the standing timber I had on my farm. I'm really glad I didn't, for two reasons. 1) I had no idea what I was getting into at the time. 2)If I had managed to get it built, I'd still be back here in Ky. now, and the "EX" would be in it now.
It's becoming more clear, as this new century rolls along, that energy efficiency will be a key feature in marketing new homes, very soon.
This is very true. I belive that before I stop walking on this planet, the new houses will be totally different, kinda like comparing a Model 'T' to one of those hybrid cars!
We are fortunate to have several tax incentives to help us save money on those materials
I need to really look at all of these kinds of options as well as the others you mentioned. It is amazing at all that needs to be considered when tackling a job like building a home.
I can remember when I first hired on as an apprentice plumber. I figured that it was no big deal to plumb a house. Just give me some valves, some pipe, and some fixtures, and I'll show you! WRONG!
I really appreciate your input Hudson Valley!
Thanks
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
I really appreciate your input Hudson Valley!
More like overflow...LOL.
Here's another point that's worth considering about building a home for yourself, it's as much about living inside your own energy as it is about living inside an unusual design.
My first home in the woods began as a small cabin, built without power tools. It was basic shelter, just what I could afford from my carpenter's wages, shortly after I purchased the property.
I had to do everything the hard way, from carrying all the materials in from the road on my shoulder, to cutting all the lumber and plywood with a hand saw. Didn't matter to me, I loved every minute of it. Sweat equity and joyful liberation from fast paced production methods.
I was able to contemplate plump and level, straight and square in my own way and time, enjoying the deeper understanding that came to me from working with hand tools, at my own pace.
Living inside that energy field, blessed by my own spirit's love of life, was a pure pleasure of the highest order.
So I'm not concerned so much about style or designing a home that will be admired by others. I know that whatever I build will be a great place to live, as long as I put my love of life into it.
Hey Hudson!
That is pretty much what I wanted to do back about 20 Years ago. Buy a plot of land that we could afford, and build as you can. But I was deemed crazy!(I should'a bailed right then!) and we ended up getting a loan and buying a farm.
Don't get me wrong the farm was great, I grew alot during that adventure! And tried alot, plus learned way more that I would have dreamed. I probably could write a fairly lengthy book on my Trials and errors during those 11 years. Doing things yourself and understanding what and why you're doing it is very rewarding....
One last thing here:
My first home in the woods began as a small cabin, built without power tools
How much experience did you have when you started your first house?
Thanks again I appreciate your input.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
My first home in the woods began as a small cabin, built without power tools
How much experience did you have when you started your first house?
Well, to clarify, that little place was built without power tools because I didn't have electricity on site yet. Finances being very limited, paycheck to paycheck, I had to forego the electricity for a while.
My carpentry skills as a framer were adequate at the time, though not complete. I'd worked with some highly competent framers, over the previous two years, so I had a very good understanding of how each framing task was performed.
As an apprentice, I'd been given only the repetitive assembly tasks to do so that house was the first opportunity I'd had, to put what I'd learned through observation and study to good use.
So with what you have seen are these houses marketable?
Given how many people buy McHouses in soul-crushingly homogenized subdivisions, the general answer is probably "No."
I mean if, I built one, would it have value on the market?
Ah, in specific, your house would be guaranteed to have value to two parties--You, and the County Tax Assessor.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
121125.17 in reply to 121125.6 "So with what you have seen are these houses marketable?"Given how many people buy McHouses in soul-crushingly homogenized subdivisions, the general answer is probably "No."But are they still? I don't know much about elsewhere, but the McMansion stage has come to an abrupt halt in my neck of the woods of central MA. I know quite a few that have been sitting empty on the market for years now. Meanwhile the "green building" buzz is all over the conventional media...seems to me the tides a finally turning. Marketability, i suppose has a lot to do with your specific location, but i say high efficiency is a safe bet. PAHS has peaked my interest of late...
but the McMansion stage has come to an abrupt halt in my neck of the woods of central MA. I know quite a few that have been sitting empty on the market for years now
Well, in the Houston, Austin, San Antonio oblong, McMansions petered out about 2003--just not enough city lots left to turn over. There's still some, but they are hit or miss.
In that same region, the tract builders are still going, breeding up 4 to 8 stock floor plans on tracts at 6-8 the acre--McHouses, not mansions. That's where the RE people can point to consistent sales right now. Appears to be a bias against "old house" as having "old problems" except for those in the lower pricing tiers.
Now, the things that fueled the McMansions are still there. Mature developed lots of fifty or more years' age. The tax burden sets the price per acre more than any seller or buyer (or their bank) can. Means an infill house or replacement house winds up beeing built to the price and dimensions of present constrcution costs, not those of 30, 40, 50 years ago.
So, is my house marketable? Yes (figuratively speaking). Replacable? I'm not sure of that. Averaging between assessed and RE sale value, about $75-78/sf--so a replace ment is either 5/8 the size, or 15/8 the cost for the same sf in place. However, as an infill lot, even 15/8 would be undersized versus lot price. And land value is what banks still largely use.
Now, find a way to market tract houses with a green label, you'll make some money.
Build one green house--maybe not so much. Build one custom house that is also green, well you've redoubled the fun of selling a custom-built house to people used to apartment, gerbil-habitat, housing.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Given how many people buy McHouses in soul-crushingly homogenized subdivisions.
I know what you mean. There is actually a big builder in our area who is considered the WalMart of the housing industry around here. He actually was a big wig at Walley World, be for he decided to change hats. In one year his amount of houses built worked out be about one house a day. His subdivisions are everywhere, and he's still building more than anyone else around here.
Thanks for the view. I need all I can get.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
A Timber frame with sip's would be highly marketable. Provided you have the skills and timber it could be an
option. Strawbales are built to a limited extent in my area.People
often remark how warm and solid they feel.
Not exactly a hot seller, but there are a couple of builders
feeding themselves that way.
Strawbales are built to a limited extent in my area.People often remark how warm and solid they feel.Not exactly a hot seller, but there are a couple of builders feeding themselves that way.
I have no doubt that there are better and cheaper ways to build, I've built too many hutches and coops,(when I had the farm), in the past. None of them had resale value either! lol. But the little critters did stay warm in the winter!
I guess my big thing is that when the last nail is driven or what ever fastening method it is, I would like the home to be paid for, with as little a dent to my saving as possible.
I know, I'm cheap. That's why I keep an old junk Ford in the back, it's parts for the other old Ford that I drive.
Did I mention I hate credit and loans, really it's the payment part I hate.
Thanks man! Much appreciated!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Oh ya, I forgot:
Provided you have the skills and timber it could be an option.
I have a good handle on the logging and sawing part but as with anything I'd have to start small and grow. So first a shed, the maybe a shop, then a garage, and then if I feel right about it, I'd build the house.
I would have to have the acerage first of course.
I do know that trying to run, before you learn to walk is very expensive!
Thanks again!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Yea they tried to build a house for us. It don't go all that great when you watch them. Pretty crappy work. Here's a thread about it.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=121057.94&redirCnt=1
New tagline coming soon..
Dam you find me no matter where I hide!
I almost went into your story but I remembered you telling me that you had posted the whole adventure, so I was trying to keep from beating a dead horse, or at least starting on it.
Anyway, I'm glad you are still trolling the area for knowledge, sorry I didn't bring any for ya!
Oh ya, what's the next pic your gonna post? I can't wait, you should see which one can get you kicked out there the farthest. Try a bigger one so they know it isn't real this time.
Might even be a new thread!
Look at what you've done now! I'm off the subject!
I'm gonna stuff a frying pan down the back of my pants, just incase they give me a boot.
Have you been humbled? That ain't possible! Is it?
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Dam you find me no matter where I hide!
I've been wanting to post about my knowledge of beer can pyramid construction but have restrained myself.
Oh ya, what's the next pic your gonna post? I can't wait, you should see which one can get you kicked out there the farthest. Try a bigger one so they know it isn't real this time
Based on all the supporting Email I've received from lurkers here who never post. I've decided that the tavern needs a lot more pool noodle pictures. You know that skit from SNL? "Need more Cowbell" Well that's gonna be my thing. This place needs more pool noodle. I'm also insiperd by the Emails from lurkers who never post here to start a blog dedicated to pool noodles. And the art of posing with them.
Look at what you've done now! I'm off the subject!
You've stayed on subject way longer then normal.
Anyway if you want a great insulated wall give this a look. 65624.1
New tagline coming soon..
wondered about building a house on the absloute cheap for years -
My kinda guy, did not see this tread earlier.
IMexperience, the 2 items that are the most difficult to find on the cheap are concrete and roofing, everything else (even wire, electrical, flooring, plumbing, heat pumps, lighting, ducts, etc. ) can be gotten at 10 cents on the dollar at garage sales, craigslist, etc. --IF you plan 5 years ahead and start accumulating.
I have split my own cedar shingles from my own trees, but even for me that is too time consuming and mind numbing labor for me - nice to do one time maybe for a small place to say you have done it, but otherwise a loser. Have done a few shed roofs with old water heater jacket steel, but zero resale value there probably..... <G>
Have never crushed rocks or kilned my own cement, although have washed my own gravel, etc. , but have never found surplus cement in other than part bag quantities at 10 cents on the dollar deals.
Oh yeah, forgot to add, have only ever once scored a full box of collated nails for the nailer cheap, although did once get 300 gal of free diesel for the dozer for pulling an old tank.
junkhound,
I'm not even going to do the quote and respond thingy here, I'd just as well paste the whole note!
Let me just say, You are one of the many here who are making me realize that I'm not a 'Crazy old hippy', too many people have that need for Instant Gratification!
On the time factor, I would like to be able to have the last detail tended to before or by the time I retire, but if I don't start until then, that's cool too. I've learned that patience is a virtue!, the hard way!!!
Concrete and roofing! Oh yes, when it comes to these areas I will have to shell out some bucks, I know when to bow down to the masters, I've nowhere near the knowledge and experience to tackle that stuff.
Anyway, I could write on and on, I'll get under control here in a sec. tho
Oh yeah, I don't retire for 15-20 years yet, yep I'm a young buck still! Ha Ha, only 50!
Thanks junkhound.... Just the name, tells me that we have things in common!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
plumberbob
Don't for a second think that concrete is spmething you can't tackle. I'm old well into my 50's when I started.. I'm fat from a sedentary lifestyle (I'm a salesman) and terriblky out of shape..
I did all my own concrete work. It's easy if you do it the right way!
same for my roofing.. Look at the pictures of my place and I will tell you that doing the roofing was the easiest most enjoyable part of this process. It's steady repitious work that doesn't take a rocket scientist to do..
It's true. You've fallen in with a bunch of aging, partially reformed hippies here so the combined experience should serve you well.
I've been kicking around lots of interesting building methods over the last forty years, tried a few solar concepts on my own small experimental home in the woods too (back when our small rural township's building inspector would approve anything, over the phone, if he knew you).
Participating on BT during the last few years has gained me a lot of valuable knowledge from the direct experience of others who have built all kinds of homes.
The three methods which have been the most interesting to me are: 1. Earth sheltering http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_sheltering 2. ICFs; insulated concrete forms like http://www.arxxwalls.com 3. Super insulated wood framed walls.
Earth Sheltering has been discussed at length here. At least one BTer, VATom, currently lives in such a home of his own design and construction. Tom has written extensively on BT about his experience so if that interests you, use the advanced search feature to look for his threads.
I still like the earth sheltered idea and hope to visit one some day. The only real sticking point for me as a personal choice is resale.
ICFs have also been discussed here, at even greater length.
I've decided that, with my background, my budget and my future aims, super-insulated stick framing will be my method, for the next house anyway. The Mooney Wall is the best example of that to be found on BT.
As for going out in the woods and building a place, without getting involved with the local authorities, I wish it were still possible but I doubt that you can find a place where it is. Be prepared for lots of paperwork and lots of rules.
Edited 6/9/2009 5:55 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
"The only real sticking point for me as a personal choice is resale."
That is my main concern as well. Anything I build,(even if I don't plan to sell it), should have value.
Also, I've seen a ICF type house once. We plumbed one not far from here, I liked the idea. The guy building it said he's brother built one afew years before and he was impressed. It was alot of concrete tho! Counting the basement the walls were 3 stories tall.
"Be prepared for lots of paperwork and lots of rules
Man you ain't kidding here! I've seen to many people start to build their 'Dream Home', only to find that they really had no clue as to what is involved, when it comes to inspections, permits and building codes.
We have taken over alot of plumbing work from people who thought the job would be simple, only to find out that they can't get it to pass an inspection to save their lives.
Another first time, type of guy we see once in awhile, is the type who thinks they know more than the inspector, and they try to argue, and belittle the inspector. Usually these guys show up at our shop shortly after they find the "Stop Work Order" on their unfinished project.
Inspectors are not the most humorus people when one opposes them!
I really enjoyed your input Hudson Valley, Thanks.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Hi plumber_bob,
Man, I could have written your post, it's like an episode of the Twilight Zone and I continue to ponder those same questions.
I've had to come to a conclusion of how I'm going to accomplish it all and I emphasize you must make that long term plan because you cannot hit a target that you cannot see. Start with an outline that starts today and where you want to be when your life's bucket rusts through. Once you figure out the end, fill in the spots of how you're going to get there.
Myself? I needed to fulfill the $ side which meant each home I've built had to be marketable and I needed to maximize the profit from each. That meant during the building boom picking up scraps of drywall from a client's job sites....with his permission of course.....it's amazing what those guys will throw out......did all of my closets, pantry, 1/2 bath etc. with that stuff and other materials.....his twisted framing braces became my twisted framing braces and then became blocking.
One thing I'd do differently on this home, portable band saw...as you've mentioned. I know in NC you're allowed to build your home with lumber milled from your own property without it being graded.....but be nice to the inspector because they still have to approve the quality level and working with it is a bit more hazardous as the edges are not rounded making for nice splinters. Now Frenchy knows how to buy lumber on the cheap.....find him and ask him to send photos.
I use the same strategy with my rental properties......cut costs, add some personal labor.....sometimes to the extreme and maximize value. I got paid minimal to do a tear out of an office ceiling where a store was moving in. I took extra time and carefully pulled it apart. Reused the ceiling in a warehouse I bought, rezoned the use and turned it into office space. Get creative but know how those choices will affect you.
My next home will be transitional, going to be moving several hours up the road as I retire....working on doing a few personal flips to rental properties. Going to do some sale reinvestment of my current properties and put it into like kind homes and pull out some cash equity. After a few of these I'll be building my final home just like we want it, screw resale value, cash out of pocket, no mortgage so kiss my grits if it doesn't fit their little package. I'll cut my own lumber for this one. Not sure if I'll mill it though...probably cut and haul then pick it up when it's done or hire someone with a portable unit. Not interested in owning one for the last house. Now I'm sure the main house will be marketable because that fantastic little woman of mine wants something rather traditional but it won't be cookie cutter by any means.
Now to more fun things. We've made a lot of friends over the years and want them to visit and enjoy their own private retreat when they come. So, these little cabins will get the creative treatment and I get to experiment. One idea is something called a stack house. Set up a jig to cut 4" to 6" diameter logs 16" long. Start atop a stone foundation lay down a bed of straw/mortar mix and lay the cured logs front to back so the ends of the logs are left exposed. I'm planning to dip the outside ends in a wood preservative. Keep going until your walls are done. You could throw in a colored bottle every now and then, a can, a rock, whatever......this will make a fun guest cottage and since I'll die there....resale value will be my daughters problem not mine.
So get your long term plan together and figure out how you're gonna get there.
Pedro the Mule - Can't wait to retire so I can get to work
Hey Pedro!
I feel less alone in the world now!
I emphasize you must make that long term plan because you cannot hit a target that you cannot see.
I'm onboard with that, it is one reason I thought I'd try to do alittle fishing in this pond, I need this vast amount of knowledge to get an idea on the things I need to focus on.
That meant during the building boom picking up scraps of drywall from a client's job sites....with his permission of course.....it's amazing what those guys will throw out.
I wish I could have gotten my hands on just the materials I've wasted! But right now I don't have the space. Now I am a true blue junk collector according to the wife, but I do have to refrain from hauling everything home.
but be nice to the inspector
I have been Inspector friendly since the 'Old Days', I just wish more people would realize how much easier their life could be if the learn to get along and use some tack, with inspectors. (I know the are some out there that will challenge your patience!)
Thanks man this was a great read!
Have a good one due!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Plumber-bob
Yes you can do it and yes if you build it well it will have resale value..
Couple of points.. find a good sawmill that sells primarily to pallet mills.. You will pay less for your wood than if you mill it yourself off your own lot.. More details if you ask..
second My home was recently appraised at 2.3 million dollars. I made my place with nothing except sawmill wood. If you want pictures they are here for you to look at and see what can be done.. Total cost for all the black walnut, cherry, hard maple, white oak, etc.. over 50,000 bd.ft. of all hardwood 5500 sq.ft. home that was double timberframed was $25,000 A smaller house say 1500 sq.ft could probably be built for less than $5,000 worth of wood..
By the way I'm a first (and only) time builder. However there are things you have to do first before you even start (ask and I'll explain it) and you had better be prepared for a whole lot more work than you anticipate.
On top of that you will need a great set of tools and you'll have to spend a lot for plumbing, wiring, windows, doors, etc..
There are ways to get that sort of thing on the cheap but they really take time..
How much time? I've got 8 years into my house thus far and I have at least 2 more years to go.
Hey frenchy,
find a good sawmill that sells primarily to pallet mills.. You will pay less for your wood than if you mill it yourself off your own lot.. More details if you ask.
One of the things that got me interested in the possibility of turning trees into a house came around because when I had a farm up in Orange county Indiana, I met a few people who worked in rough mills for furniture factories, One guy had a sawmill of his own, and I knew two people who worked for a guy who kiln dried the wood. I used to pick their brains every chance I could get.
Now, having revealed that I am a brain picker, I would welcome anything that you might have , I always like to look at everything project, and concept I come up with, from as many angles as possible. I doubt I know nearly as much about all this as I should.
If you want pictures they are here for you to look at and see what can be done
I like pictures! I can actually read the 'thousand' words in the pictures, why faster than a thousand printed words.
On top of that you will need a great set of tools and you'll have to spend a lot for plumbing, wiring, windows, doors, etc..
I've got a fair start on my tool collection, more tools than tool box's, but I ain't done yet! Plus I'm a very patient scrounger, I know I will have to actually purchase some things, but I am very hard headed when it comes to buying thing if I thing I can do it another way. I might even do a little side work at night for a window or two.
And lastly:
I've got 8 years into my house thus far and I have at least 2 more years to go.
Man how many sticks and nails do you have in that house? And how many nails guns are buried on 'Old Gun Hill'?
I look forward to hearing more.
Thanks again.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Well few nails because most of my home is timberframed. However without engineered drawings I was forced to use stainless steel lag bolts.. thousands of them.. It's OK because I countersunk each one so I can cover them with short pegs.(thus giving the appearance of a true timberframe)
That's one of the things you need to do when getting permission to build.. you have to out think the objections a building inspector might have and have them solved before he can object..
For example there is a section of the building code where alternate materials are allowed and even specifically authorized in certain cases. For example any structural timber 8x8 or larger is exempt from fire code ratings. Or for that matter any requirement to meet grading regulations..
It's in there (even wherever you intend to build) I built mine using the UBC and code has changed since then but every time I go looking for it I find the same wording in everybodies code..
Find a copy of the building code used wherever you intend to build and learn it!Libraries have to have them and you can get a jump on the process if you work with the building inspector during the design phase..
Don't worry about elobrate blue prints.. I did my own and believe me they are crude.. Hand sketches on yellow legal tablets were all I submitted for all but my first phase.. That's another point.. Get a permit for each phase. I tore down my old house and built as I went living in the old house untill enough of the new house was done to move into. The actual outside construction work took me 7 years to complete but because each permit was relatively small and I finished each area before tearing down some more I was covered with currant permits through the whole process.
Most permits are good for a year and a year isn't enough time (not if you work full time and do this evenings and weekends)
The possiblity of turning your trees into a home is slight for a house of any size.. Few plots have that many large mature trees and if you harvest them all for your own home the plot will look pretty bare.. Besides wood can be so cheap if you buy from the right sawmill.
Pallet wood sells for around 20 cents a bd.ft. (right now it's 17 cents) That's sawn up and stacked.. for simplicities sake the standard price paid for a new railroad tie (before it's treated) is $20.00 that's for a 9x7 by 8 1/2 foot long timber.. Very hard to buy a bandsaw mill with wood as cheap as that.. Once you calculate your time involved you'll be working for a few cents an hour of some of the nastiest, most dangerous, back breaking work imaginable. Visit an old logger and most of them are missing parts of their bodies.. arms legs etc.. then visit a sawmill and you'll be surprised by the number of people who have had a board jammed thru them someplace when the blade hit something and kicked back.
Look at the equipment they use too.. a skid steer is sort of the minimum you need to deal with whole logs and it darn well should be a really big one if not an articulated front end loader.. Scrap value on one of those is more than the price of the wood.. not to mention old ones nearing scrap time will cost a lot to keep running.. Just look at what it will cost you to repair a tire on one of those (and no it's not something you can do without the equipment)
that's any hardwood that meets GMA standards. That's a pretty tough standard, for example; no rot, no wane, no lose knots, structurally sound, wood.
Ash is the currant favorite right now and ash is a great wood to build a timberframe out of.. (it's also abundant and really cheap!)
Don't worry about Kiln drying your wood.. Timbers will take years to dry in a kiln and come out looking like a dogs hind leg.. put the timbers up green. Ask before you do there are a lot of details you need to know to get it right. I air dried my timbers for three years and sure wish I hadn't while I got slightly less checking than green timbers. I changed getting each timber from an hours worth of work to well over 10 hours.. (estimated 500+ timbers) plus I wore out cutting edges so much faster that I eventually bought a second planner so I could get through a morning without spending the 1/2 hour it takes to change the blades.. at one point I had 33 sets of blades for my power planners I am now down to less than 10 sets.. (I completely wore out the others) air drying wood is perfectly acceptable for cabinet work. in fact there are several advantages to air dried wood over kiln dried wood.. for one thing you won't run the risks associated wilth kiln drying honeycombing case harding etc.. and some air dried wood is far more vibrant than kiln dried wood.. Loook at black walnut for example.. Kiln dried black walnut is a rather dull brown air dried woods have all these pretty colors in it that are lost in the kiln drying process. Same with several other woods. Air dried fiddleback maple is a lot prettier than kiln dried..
OK here's a list of the tools I used for my timberframe. I bought a 16 inch circular saw.. that will cut through a timber 6 inches thick in one pass.. (but not 7 inches) I bought a 6 1/4 inch wide power planer plus a chain mortiser and something called a groove cutter (think of a circular saw with a router head) used for hiding wire & plumbing chases. All of that stuff is available used for about 1/2 the price of new.. however some of it on the market is really worn out junk and some like mine was bought for only one house.. To get an idea of what you will have to spend go to www. timberwolf tools.com. You will also need a lot of regular tools like a milwaukee hole hog.. skil saws and etc.. If you intend to make your own cabinets you need that equipment too. I've got a 12 inch table saw, a 20 inch wide planner a 8 inch wide jointer a 24 inch. open end drum sander a shaper and chip collecting equipment as well as dust collecting equipment.
There's a whole lot of stuff required for cabinet work but once you have it you can do nice built ins and details that would make you proud of your work..
I'd guess I have at least $10,000 invested in all my cabinet making equipment (and I have yet to build my first cabinet!) It's all been used a lot though making stuff to make the house nice and finish the details as I like them..
For pictures go over to the left hand side of this page click on advanced search and enter 85891.1 scroll through that and then enter 94941.1and scroll through that.. Oh there's a few of some of the floor at 86920.13
Hey frenchy,
I got some really good info, from that note! Thanks alot.
As far as inspectors go, I like to pick their brains just like I do with anyone else, and I really get a kick outta hearing them rant about someone they are butting heads with. It gives me alot of insight on how they think and what they expect. If all the inspectors are happy, things go much smoother. Once in awhile we might call our inspector, to inspect a water line and sewer, if the site is out in East Jablip he may just tell us to cover it up! But if he ever catches a plumber trying to pull one on him, he becomes their worst enemy. And jacklegs are the reason inspectors were invented.
A far as studying all the details, doing all the referencing, checking and double checking, this is the most important part of any undertaking. I was any electronics technician for about 10 years in a factory. The plotting, planning, research and such, that we had to do took up anywhere from twice to five times as much time as actually doing the hands on side of the project. We had to justify most every aspect of the project. Also when I decided to get my FFL so that I could re-blue guns, I researched all the angles of that for 4 years before I fell good enough to apply for it. It turned out that the FFL wasn't the only thing I had to worry about, I had to deal with the county and state, as I found I need a retail sales permit,(means sales tax), even to sell a customer anything over a nickel! But when I finally started the actual process of getting my 'hobby business' going it went smooth as silk!
It is very apparent how important the research side is just by reading this thread. I'd have to do an analysis to be sure but I'd say that is the number 1 piece of advice I see here.
Also frenchy I like the advice on the drying of the wood. When I bought the farm, it came with a fair sized pile of rough cut hickory and oak. Man! That stuff would bend a barn spike! And if you did manage to drive a nail in it w/out predrilling, you split the board. So I'm glad to hear that using green wood is cool.
I'm going to comment on 121125.38 here as well.
My hesitation with concrete and roofing is simply I haven't done enough yet, same reason I don't do the drill and fill on teeth, I need more experience, our to sleep at a Holiday Inn Express the night before!!
Thanks again for your response, and I'm off to look at those pictures....
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
plumberbob
Please be assured that you can do concrete.. just the technique and equipment you use is important..
Let me explain to you.. I looked at 47 ways to put a foundation under my house. I knew I didn't have any real talent when it came to working with concrete so I looked at things that seemed really stupid..
In the end I went with one of those stupid ideas and boy am I ever glad I did..
They are called ICF's Insulated concrete forms..
It's like pouring a foundation in a big leggo made from foam coffee cups.. (and just about as hard!) great insulation values.. wonderfully easy to do.
So easy that when a road trip had me bedridden for over a month my sister-in-law with absolutely no prior construction experiance (unless you count painting her bedroom once) finished it up for me.. Because of my problem with my back I hired a kid from the grocery store to do the actual pour work (again no experiance) and we were done inside of 2 hours. It's that simple!
watch a video of how easy they go together and how quickly and you too will start to feel confident enough to do the work yourself..
You should see how brave I got the second time I did work with ICF's a half circle and I poured the footing and the wall all at once! (without bracing!) Don't do this at home kids!
Hey again,I would definitely want to learn more, I've worked with concrete before, on a small scale, several times. I do know one guy from work who used the plywood he'd had planed for his floor and roof, first to form up his basement and while he wasn't sure either, he said it worked out fine.I think I have a fear about the form blowing out and I'd loose all that concrete. But I have seen the ICF's and like you said, they are like a leggo type deal and should be easier to setup properly.By the time I am ready to break round and start things I will probably be more comfortable about tackling it myself, The Lord knows how many things I have tackle and won! Although the fly on the wall probably had some serious good chuckles watching me!!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
I do concrete. You can do concrete. It aint a piece of cake but it aint all that bad. Just got to remember to use sunblock on your butt crack.
New tagline almost ready.
Are you ever at a loss for words? Or do you have a staff of writers?
Ever since you heard your first, "up your nose with a rubber hose", you've been on a roll since!Back to the subject: Concrete is like the Woodshed Tavern maybe!
When you're on the outside waiting to get in looks alot different. But once you belly up to the bar, get into it, it ain't so bad! I ain't scared just wanna be more comfortable.Did ya ever figure out how to stop that flaming RV? I'll have to get back over there and see...
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Hey plumber_bob,
I found a photo for you.....something right up your alley for you to start constructing....
Known as stackwood or cordwood construction
http://media.photobucket.com/image/cordwood%20building/camaria_photos/Our%20Irish%20Shed/shed1.jpg
Pedro the Mule - Your thousand word picture
Hey Pedro!
That is exactly, about the scale I need to start with, 2 or 3 buildings that size and my experience level should rise alot, plus if I was to do that good on the first time I would have such a 'woody'! (Yep I meant that in a way that could get me the boot!) Hope they are only looking for noodle words!!Hey! By the way, mrs_bob did the ordering for coffee this time and she got 5 each, 5# bags of the following:OFT Sumatra Mandheling
Ethiopian
Kenya AAA
Indian Monsooned Malabar
El Salvador Las Nubes SHG, (I'm not sure I want to know what "Los Nubes", means in English!)So far I have roasted the Sumatra and the initial cupping's have been good! (Did you see the pinky in the air attitude there?) It is worth the $'s.
The rest have yet to be tested.Anyway, "Keep your pool noodle out of harms way, and don't screw up that first cup-o-joe in the morning" I might claim that as and original!!!!!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Hi plumber_bob,
El Salvador Las Nubes SHG, (I'm not sure I want to know what "Los Nubes", means in English!)
Sorry to disappoint...... "The Clouds"......
Pedro the Mule - Living it high
Thanks Dude!
I feel a hole lot better knowing that nubes ain't Mexican, for Cojones! Lol!
After learning about Cat #### Coffee, I'm cautious about new words!
They should write in 'Merican no matter what country they are in!
Catch ya again soon....
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
I've been edited!!
I'ts supposed to be closer to cat C.R.A.P. coffee without the periods.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Are you ever at a loss for words? Or do you have a staff of writers?
Look who's talking.`And I work without a net. Hey I think I got the new tagline done! Thanks for the idea.
Found out today that I might be repouring some concrete I poured a month or so ago. We poured an island for an ATM building in a parking lot next to a bank over in Western KY. not too far form Alan. We poured an 8' drive lane just like they spec'd. Apparently somebody with a lot of money deposited in the bank can't wiggle their dually through the new drive lane. Pretty funny phone calls today. And it's all profit for us. :)
New tagline almost ready.
So the dually dude just bought some concrete?
I'd hate to be him when the wife lets into him!
It always sucks when that STUPID TAX comes due!!!
I've paid my share!!!!!Keep the Noodle free and in the wind!!!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
No he didn't do any damage. He just complained to the right person that the new lane we put in was too hard to get his dually thru. It's a little jerk water town and they get all flustered when something changes. The tellers were telling us that people used to complain that the deal drawer didn't come out far enough when they didn't pull up cose enough to the drawer. People are goofy.
Posting without a net since 99.
People are goofy.
Dude I could write a neverending thread on how many goofy people are out there and the #### they pull, do, and say!
Hummmm?????????
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Bob.
I think the cordwood idea is a good one. Did you say you HAVE a sawmill? OR thinking of one? If so,, the Timberframe Idea with strawbale in-fill is a good one. I'd keep the timbers on the inside of the bales,, and design with a MAJOR overhang to tuck the bales under,, and 2' or more of soffit beyond that!
my 2 cents,, and yes,, there are others that dream of our own hunk of woods,, and a long term project to work on. Gotta finish my house and my rental unit first,,,,,grrr.
d
Wow, I had almost forgotten about this thread here!I would have to get a sawmill when I'm ready to start. Thanks for your input! I'm gonna stash this with the rest of the notes I'm gathering.Thanks!!
I missed this one on the first go-round - - read thru the whole thread this morning -
seems like the thread veered 90* from the first post, where your bold question was 'Do they have market value'? (answer: yes, with qualifications) to 'I'm going to die here, it's my daughter's problem'
two things haven't been mentioned - location - if you have location, you have market value, no matter what you do - - and to remember that you aren't building for everybody, if you want to sell, you only have to find one person (finding two people is better), so, robust construction offering good comfort (let's just call it good 'feng shui, for shorthand) and you'll have the 10% of the population that's awake to market to -
here's a link to VA Tom's house - http://paccs.fugadeideas.org/tom/index.shtml - he used to post here quite a bit, haven't seen him lately - he builds tight, solid houses that heat and cool themselves - how much better can it get? -
and if you don't have a copy of Christopher Alexander's tome 'A Pattern Language', get one before you nail anything together - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pattern_Language
do something exceptional, leave your monument -
"seems like the thread veered 90* from the first post, where your bold question was 'Do they have market value'? (answer: yes, with qualifications) to 'I'm going to die here, it's my daughter's problem' "
You ever notice how many times that happens in BT! And of course gunner, can grab the wheel and really change the track!!!
Still, it's fun and I always enjoy a good chuckle!
On the serious side tho, With all the info I've gather & stored just from this thread,... well you guys have really helped me with ideas, and such!
I love it!