Free thinkers encouraged to reply!
The pole building is built. 26′ by 32′ with 10′ sidewalls. I am dedicating this to woodworking. There is currently no money for a cement floor ($3000). I am considering floor alternatives. One option I’m considering is patio block. The 8″ by 16″ or 16″ by 16″ versions. The base is three feet of sand and currently has a 3″ top layer of lime rock. I could remove the lime rock and get more sand.
I live in the upper mid-west so I will heat the shed in Winter with an external wood boiler and hanging radiator / fan combination. I’m planning on insulating the interior perimeter of the shed (the exterior is landscaped and I do not want to mess with he wife’s flower beds!), with an expanded or extruded insulation. I also plan to install a wire mesh to keep rodents out from under my floor.
The block come to approximately $500-$600 bucks. I have a strong back and the skills to make this work. WHAT AM I NOT CONSIDERING?
Thought I’d ask before I got started.
A couple projects ago I built a reception desk I put in the gallery section of this site.
Thanks for your input!
Replies
What kind of equipment is going in the shop, and will you be moving it around? Depending on point loads of the equipment, you could break your patio stones. Most of my stationary shop tools are on mobile bases, and some go over 400 lbs. Don't think patio block would hold up well under those weights, or moving them across all those joints. Light weight eguipment, maybe.
Dave
I have the normal array of heavy and medium duty equipment- cabinet saw, planer, etc. I plan to use mobile bases. I thought if the earth and finished block floor was compacted sufficiently the block would not move or give. I belive I can lay it flat - obviously not seamless.
If you are going to do something like this I would look at the smaller concerete pavers for several reasons.
I think that most of the larger units that I have seen are just poured concrete thus not that strong for point loads. Also the area is such at you would have large leverage trying to tip the unit if you have a wheel near the edge. I realize that if the base was PERFECTLY uniforma and compacted that this would not be a provlem, BUT!
The concrete pavers are processed to be very small and with their realatively small size would want to tip as much.
Don't have any idea of the relative cost between the 2.
Save your money for the concrete. You'll not be young forever.
In the meantime, consider a direct contact wood floor. Treated 2x joists, on compacted rock with the voids filled, include the rat mesh and vapor barrior. Use treated 2x for the decking.
You can recycle the wood when you replace the floor with concrete.................with in floor heating.
I don't think you'd be happy with the pavers. The wheels on the HTC mobile base I had weren't big and it didn't take much to hang it up. You'd have plenty of seams to do just that. If it were me, I'd pour the floor in sections (maybe six sections 12'x13' each?) as money (and time) permit.
Edited 4/30/2003 2:14:46 PM ET by jc
You may want to thimk about standing on concrete all day. Some folks have installed wood over their concete floors for comfort's sake- so maybe a "permanent" wood floor is worth considering. You could also make changes in your layout and change the underfloor wiring quite easily.
I might install PT 2 x 4 sleepers on the flat maybe on 4 foot centers, fill in with compacted soil, and install 2 x 6 PT flooring. The sleepers are only to hold things together. Or I might not - nothing says permanent like concrete.
I'm in the exact same spot myself right now, except my pole barn is smaller and it will be a while before I can take the next step.
Your point about concrete floors is well taken; I have a knee replacement (and another one coming due). Concrete is H_LL on the knees even with rubber mats. I'm leery of "permanent" wood anything. Concrete makes a nice base for sleepers (and radiant heat) and a wood floor or better yet, a mill style floor.
The standing on concrete really got me thinking. My wife and I looked the situation over last night. Based on her interest it's apparent she wants the shop out of the garage and house! The wood floor will work - we'll title it semi-permanent. I'm considering the pt 2x4's on 2' centers with a Dow xps insulation with a higher density to go between. 3/4" exterior plywood screwed down to the sleepers. Vapor barrier underneath it all? The patio block will be installed the first 8' (8'x26' area) of the shed where the walk-in door and 10' slider are. A place to get the snow off your boots and store things. The sand and limestone base is dry and compacted. I'll insulate the perimiter.
Special Thanks for your input!
Power Tools and People run better when they're plugged in - keep lookin' up!
Jeff the Jet
3/4" exterior plywood screwed down to the sleepers. Vapor barrier underneath it all?
Sounds good. Vapor barrier? Yes, if it keeps the moisture away from the flooring materials. You can use a lower grade of exterior plywood for the floor, and then lay double tempered hardboard over it for an easy-to-sweep finished floor (single tempered HB would want priming before installation).
Even though the tools are mobile, they will likely have "preferred" locations. By using wood, you can "beef up" those areas ahead of time (or afterwards, for that matter).
I'll admit, my first thought was actually from left field: Packed dirt for the floor. Now, it is not as simple as that sounds. It is compacted high-clay laid down in lifts and compressed to a high sheen. In effect, you are making an air cured 'pottery' floor. Not so wacky, though, there are smithy shops in the Carolinas that have shop floors going back centuries, and they are supporting forges and anvils. Sloping for drainage is important, and a deep vestibule entrance with the pavers would probably be needed. (Whole thought probably a flashback from my alternate/low technology construction days . . . <g>)
Maybe You've already decided, but I'll throw in my bit, too.
Are there any areas near you where you could get a high-clay soil? A few inches of clay soil compacted well and then flooded with linseed oil and tamped flat makes a decent cleanable floor. It wouldn't hold up your power tools, but perhaps you could determine the location of the larger tools and pour concrete under them (or go even cheaper and frame up some small wood platforms for them to sit on) with compacted clay between. The oiled dirt floor was in the southwest off in the past. Does have to be re-treated with oil from time to time, obviously cannot get wet, and can be a relatively hard, sweepable, surface.
My advice is go really cheap, save your $ and build what you really want sooner.Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Jeff & All
I'm in almost the same position.
I am about to build an addition to my shop.
New section is to be 12 x 30 ft.
I'm on solid ledge, so I was thinking of just building with pressure
treated footing and then filling the ledge to level with crushed stone and putting a pressure treated floor in.
I only need table space not heavy equipment.
Any thoughts on this wouls be helpful.
Jeff
The base is three feet of sand and currently has a 3" top layer of lime rock. I could remove the lime rock and get more sand.
I'm no expert on the matter but I did put in a couple of thousand sqare feet of concrete pavers last year for driveway and paths...
I think that you may be asking for problems having sand under the limestone. I think that I went through about 80 tons of crushed limestone compacted in 2" lifts under all the pavers. Sand (1 1/2" uncompacted) is put on top of the limestone, screeded and then the pavers are placed and compacted.
The deeper and more compacted the limestone base, the more weight the patio blocks will be able to support. You could try sweeping dry mortar/cement into joints which may help unify the entire surface.
If you were to use concrete pavers you could always re-use them in a garden path, but you would have to deal with the joints while moving your tools....
Just my thoughts....
Mike
My math shows 26x32 = 832'. In my part of the upper midwest, the concrete guys will finish this floor for about $2 a foot or $1664. Buy the concrete and place it yourself - 10 yds. @ $80 per yd. = $800. Sounds like the shop floor is already prepped for concrete or am I missing something? What do you pay for a yard of crete?