Replies

1. 
   johnnyd | Jan 20, 2004 05:23pm | #1

   Why OSB? Have you ever used OSB as a finished surface before? Were you happy with it? 

2. 
   sungod | Jan 20, 2004 06:16pm | #2

   Only in Artist's residences in Venice California do they do that.  The OSB is very stable, so long as there is no moisture from underneath.

1. 
   johnnyd | Jan 20, 2004 06:27pm | #3

   But depending on the quality of the manufacturing, OSB certainly can de-lam and chip...especially in a floor application. It certainly can soak up alot of finish.   Maybe Atvantech of similar would be less prone to this, but at the prices for atvantech why not just get 3/4" oak or other hardwood veneer plywood?.

   I did that as an experiment in a guest bedroom, cut into 2'X2' squares, sealed both up and downsides with shellac, chamfered the top edges, screwed and plugged to the subfloor...three coats of poly:  About $1.50 a sq ft in materials.

   It's working out so well we're considering it for bedrooms and "away room" as finished flooring over radiant sandwich.

   Edited 1/20/2004 10:29:40 AM ET by johnnyd

1. 
   HONewbie | Jan 21, 2004 11:58pm | #16

   Johnnyd, I am thrilled to see your post...my wife and I had this same idea a couple of weeks ago for our family room, except we plan on using 4'x4' squares of maple ply.  It's good to know that we aren't completely out in left field.

   If you don't mind me picking your brain, do you have any advice or lessons learned?  We have debated whether to use 3/4" or 1/2", any suggestions?  Did you use any adhesive?  If not, have you had any problems with squeaks?

1. 
   johnnyd | Jan 22, 2004 12:17am | #17

   No adhesive, just four sheetrock screws per sheet... these are 2X2 sheets, 4X4s are a little tough to handle for the ripping and corner chamfer phases...definately go with 3/4", I think you'd have a harder time getting 1/2" to lay down flat, and there would be less meat for the screws to grab.  Remember the screws are countersunk and plugged.  Drilled those on a drill press, plug sunk first, then the hole. Used a template to mark the holes.  No squeaking.

   I cut the 4X8 sheets down to 2X2 with a skil saw, then used the table saw with outfeed extensions back and left side, with the manufactured edges against the fence to make sure all the sides were parallel and square with clean edges.

   Then I put a sanding disc in the TS at  45 degree angle and ran all the upside corners against that.  Could tell by the sound if I was running straight or not.  Here's where some advised using a router or router table.

   All sides got a sealer coat of shellac put on with a thick nap roller when they were still 4X8.  Then I put I think 3 or four coats of varathane semi-gloss after they were screwed down.  Took two weekends and a week of evenings.

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=12504.1

   Edited 1/21/2004 4:38:17 PM ET by johnnyd

1. 
   rasconc | Jan 22, 2004 06:00am | #19

   Did you consider the gold-tone general construction screws?  It would be a pain to pop the last corner screw when tightening.  Besides we do not want Piffen to get heartburn.

2. 
   johnnyd | Jan 22, 2004 04:57pm | #22

   I will use those on the next rendition.

   In response to another poster, on the thin veneer issue...I wouldn't recommend veneered plywood floor for entry, kitchen, or any other heavily used areas....but it's fine for bedrooms.  Keep in mind that since it's screwed down without adhesive, you could easily repair a damaged square.

   Also an inexpensive starter floor that will serve until you can afford regular hardwood, hence the 3/4" thickness.

3. 
   albeee | Jan 22, 2004 06:29pm | #23

   It might look kind of cool because of the Formaldahyde adhesive used to bind the wood in OSB. The surface wood not hold the stain evenly, so every where their is a little glue line it would be darker then the stained wood.  It is good to see people look outside of the box for new ideas. Good luck

4. 
   AdamB | Jan 22, 2004 11:05pm | #24

   or simply some square drive deck screws...

5. 
   johnnyd | Jan 22, 2004 11:36pm | #25

   Nothin but torx for me

2. 
   Schelling | Jan 22, 2004 02:48pm | #21

   I would be a little concerned about using maple plywood. How thick is the face veneer? Most hardwood plywood has an extremely thin face veneer that would be difficult to repair if the floor is dinged or chipped. The finish would protect the bulk of the floor but accidents and hard use are likely with a floor. This would not be a problem with osb since the entire sheet is consistent throughout its depth. My biggest concern with osb is that it is not very hard. It would have the same problems as a white pine floor, ie, the finish can crack under impact (even just heavy traffic) because the substrate is not strong enough. People have lived with this but I don't find it ideal. This would not be a problem with advantech and neither would water. This material is a heck of a lot more stabile than any other wood product I have ever used and it has sure been tested in the field under a lot tougher circumstances than an indoor finish floor.

1. 
   HONewbie | Jan 23, 2004 06:30pm | #26

   I had the same thought as Johnny, any damaged sections can just be pulled up and replaced.  The room we want to use this in is going to be a family room, mostly for the baby's toys and dad's office.  I expect anything we use will get dinged up over time, that just adds character!

   Our idea had nothing to do with any sophisticated sense of design.  We wanted something that would be easy to clean, wouldn't stain like carpet, and would look good (in that order).  The price of hardwood, laminates and engineered planks drove us to this option.  I've been debating the best way to finish and lay the squares for best appearance.  I'm thinking that if I just clearcoat, then I will lay the squares with the grain alternating like a big parquet.  If we decide to stain, I think I will do a checkerboard with slightly different shades.  It's a big room, and I'm afraid if I don't add some element of pattern it just wouldn't look as good.  Any opinions?

2. 
   johnnyd | Jan 23, 2004 06:45pm | #27

   Turned out, and you can kind of see in the picture, that some of the plywood I got was sliced veneer and some was rotary cut, I think.  The rotary was a bit darker, and when I started laying the squares, it turned out I had the right number of darker squares to center in a sort of pattern.  Don't lose any sleep over it, though, because by the time you get done putting throw rugs and furniture in place, any pattern will probably be obsured.

   Nice thing about this is that you can lay them out in a variety of patterns before you screw them down, and pick whatever looks the best.

   Now that I think about it, I cut the 4X8 sheets down to 4X4 with circular saw and shooting board, then devised a temporary side feed and outfeed table to make the final cuts, using the manufactured edges against the fence with the fence set ~ 23 3/8" from the blade.  You have to do ALL the squares in one session, or at least without changing the fence setting.

   The inherent inaccuracies in this milling method average out if you alternate the veneer grain direction when you lay the squares.

3. 
   johnrgrace76 | Jan 23, 2004 08:52pm | #28

   If rpice is driving your choices have you looked at ebay?  I've seen wood flooring for $0.99 a sq ft there or less if you just want to have a nice clean surface at least check it out.

4. 
   aimless | Jan 27, 2004 07:43pm | #34

   Bart,

   I haven't read the whole thread yet, so somebody else may have already mentioned this. If you are thinking of having your baby play on OSB, you will need to think really carefully about the finish. Not just the delamination question, but the formaldehyde offgassing. Baby's noses are right there where they get good whiffs of it constantly, and that stuff is really bad for your brain. Whatever you finish with should be a good sealer of the chemical fumes as well.

5. 
   HONewbie | Jan 28, 2004 05:02am | #35

   I'm not the one considering OSB, but that's good info anyway.  Thanks!

3. 
   wrick2003 | Jan 21, 2004 02:16am | #4

        Is this a joke? Why in the h e l l would you want to do that?

        If it's not in a shed or a s h i t house, you're making an  error in judgement.

        You may be the type of person who Taunton is marketing to now.

        rg

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jan 21, 2004 02:45am | #5

   It's always fun to respond to somebody's first post with obscenity and derision, isn't it. Maybe you could kick in some information, like what is it about OSB that makes it suitable only for sheds and outhouses. Or is personal abuse the best you can do?

1. 
   wrick2003 | Jan 21, 2004 05:13am | #6

        No, my friend, I'm not ripping the guy just to rip him.

        How about a poll of all professionals here? Who would install OSB, sanded and varnished and caulked in their own house? It's soft, can't get wet, and has all of that printing on it you would have to sand through. And, IT LOOKS LIKE OSB!

        If one were to beautify his floors that way, what would one use as baseboard? A graceful ogee or a knotty #3 pine 1x4? Do you bother knocking the edge off of the 1x4? What kind of furniture would you want in the room? Chippendale or 2x4 tables and chairs? God forbid, what would the built-ins be made of?

        My point: OSB is underlayment and decking material. Believe me, I have used materials for non designed uses, that's been my forte, but OSB will never be a suitable finish material.

        The guy can do whatever he wants. He can ask whatever question he wants.  Along with that freedom comes the probability that someone may respond with an opposing viewpoint.

        Seriously, why wouldn't you want hardwood floors or any of the other hundreds of proven choices? 

        Consider floor height transitions from room to room. Is the dining room floor turning into tile at the kitchen threshold? If you don't build up the tile to accomodate 3/4 hdwd flooring for a later install, you will get a tile floor lower that the hdwd. 

        I'm not ripping the guy just to rip him, it IS a stupid idea, and I assume that he came to this forum for an honest answer.    

        rg

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jan 21, 2004 06:43am | #7

   >> ... and I assume that he came to this forum for an honest answer.

   Yeah, you gave him an honest answer, but you didn't answer the questions he asked. If a guy asks technical questions about OSB, I'm willing to assume that he's seen some OSB and made a considered decision that that's the look he wants on his floor. Arguing over questions of taste is pointless. I've seen lots of stuff I thought was uglier than OSB floors presented as an esthetic triumph in Fine Homebuilding magazine. You're talking like your taste in flooring is a universal constant, and anyone who disagrees with you is mentally deficient.

   A poll of all the professionals here is completely irrelevant. Would you take a poll of the top selling men's clothing salesmen to decide what kind of pants to wear to work? Would you poll high fashion photographers to decide if you should be attracted to blondes, brunettes, or redheads?

   And even if I grant that you're just looking for his best interests, I have to wonder, do you often find that swearing and name calling are the most effective ways to change someone's opinion?

1. 
   wrick2003 | Jan 21, 2004 03:19pm | #11

        I didn't come over here to BT to start an argument, especially after your knid words about my one-handedness.

        But let's face it. OSB doesn't look make for a suitable finish material. Granted, gaudy is gaudy, but OSB doesn't even cross the line into the taste category.

        Good Luck to the guy and his OSB floors. This is the new FHB.

        No hard feelings Uncle Dunc.    rg   

4. 
   gdavis62 | Jan 21, 2004 06:49am | #8

   In a finished floor you probably would not have to gap the panels, but you may wish to consider doing a small divider strip of contrasting wood between them, with the surface of the strips maybe a 32nd shy of the top.  Might look kind of dressy.

5. 
   hammer1 | Jan 21, 2004 07:54am | #9

   All OSB is not the same. Ask your building suppliers about Advantech flooring sheets. http://www.huberwood.com/products/dsp_products.cfm?doc_id=23

6. 
   Senna | Jan 21, 2004 09:13am | #10

   There is a custom furniture store, here in Toronto, that I noticed has OSB for flooring. If I remember correctly the OSB has been cut into 2x2 foot tiles and stained with a dark polyurethane. Looked OK to me. I guess they were trying to cover a large floor area cheap.

   For a cheap floor I would go for the IKEA laminate at $1.29 sqft (CDN$).

7. 
   dIrishInMe | Jan 21, 2004 04:03pm | #12

   Try a search of the archives here at BT - this has been discussed at least a few times here before and I think some good info was exchanged.  I think maybe there might have even been a FHB article about it some years ago and, if I remember correctly one of the FHB editors/writers even used in their personal home...

   Good luck with the search function though...  Try searching the back articles at the FHB magazine website too.
    

   Matt
1. 
   jbm253 | Jan 21, 2004 06:51pm | #13

   Thanks for the input.  I figured there was a "finish" version like advantech out there.  We aren't necessarily trying to be cheap, we happen to like the patterns of the osb and color variations.  The laminate flooring doesn't do much for us and it seems to sound hollow.  Yesterday I was in REI and they used osb on the second floor of their sales room.  It has been installed for over 4 yrs. I did not notice any delam problems or unsightly scrapes or wear patterns. 

   When I posted the original questions I knew there would be some positive feedback and some negative.  It is interesting the one negative comment came across so violent and narrow minded that I just overlooked it.  Besides, he probably had a bad day and was tired of dragging his knuckles on the ground.

1. 
   johnnyd | Jan 21, 2004 07:43pm | #14

   OK, then, go down to your supplier and take a look at Advantech versus any other brand of OSB....I put Advanthech down for subfloor, got rained, snowed, and iced on..no delam or chipping.  Probably the way to go.  Send pictures when you get done.

1. 
   BillHartmann | Jan 21, 2004 09:42pm | #15

   But I would get one section of the Advantec and try it first.

   Does it have "wax" or something in it to make it more water resistant?

   He wants to stain it so that might affect the ability to stain it.

2. 
   rasconc | Jan 22, 2004 05:54am | #18

   Years ago the Louisana-Pacific Gulfstream jet had a forward cabin bulkhead of osb sanded and finished with many layers of clear finish.  It looked like marble and was beautiful.  I have a decorating book that showed a floor of 2x2 plywood panels with poly.  It looked awesome and was a conversation piece for sure. 

3. 
   BungalowJeff | Jan 22, 2004 08:08am | #20

   It sounds like the look you're after is similar to some of the cork flooring patterns. An option, but maybe also a point of reference for anyone else who cannot picture an OSB floor looking good....that's not a mistake, it's rustic

4. 
   finnster | Jan 24, 2004 10:38am | #30

   Violent and narrow-minded? Damn, you guys are sensitive here. I'm gonna have to be careful what I say.

1. 
   skids | Jan 25, 2004 12:01am | #31

   i am with the previous poster who thinks that anyone who would use OSB as a finish floor has all their taste in their mouth. i do not think uncle was wrong in chastising him for not answering the technical question asked however, and now that it has been answered i feel compelled to chime in myself.

   in my area are many old chicken barns, and in the old chicken barns they use a 3 & 1/4 inch wide by 3/4 inch thick redwood strip, tongue and groove floor. they use this because it holds up to the washing of chicken poop off of the floor with water. even in some 80 year old barns the floors dont look too bad with just a sweeping, and i just can't see a finish floor in a house that looks worse than what the chickens poop on!

   lumber liquidators regularly advertises in fine homebuilding, and for $2.00 per sq ft you can get a good floor material (their cheap stuff is $1.00). you could put it down with a finish nailer (the correct way is to rent a floor nailer, and use the staples) and it would soak up way less of whatever you wanted to finish it with, you could even leave it unfinished and it would look better than OSB. even a very bad, cheap, DIY first time lousy job will be better than OSB!   

1. 
   jbm253 | Jan 27, 2004 05:55pm | #32

   We used Lumber Liquidators on the last house and wound up with a really nice floor and it was really inexpensive.  We were simply trying to get a different and unique look, instead of the same thing again. 

2. 
   gdavis62 | Jan 27, 2004 07:32pm | #33

   You don't get it, Skids.  This is an artistic decision.

   FH showed a pic years ago of a house where OSB was used to do the treads and risers in a staircase.  Looked good to me, in the context of the industrial look the architect was after.

   Put enough hard-wearing finish on this and it will be fine, but not for guys like you that wear your steel-toed hobnails inside.

   Take 'em off at the door when visiting.

   They might not like your taste in interior decor, as well.

3. 
   cso | Jan 28, 2004 06:47am | #36

   There is a resort in northern MI called Shanty Creek.  They built a whole new expensive development about 4 years ago called Cedar River.  When we went up there the main lodge was decorated in finsihed OSB and something like sheet metal.  The OSB was used like a baseboard going up the wall about a foot.  Not being the "artist-type" I had the poor taste to ask the guy at the front desk when they were going to finish the interior.  He said IT WAS FINISHED.

   Point being that OSB is being used this way in some posh developments.  Not my style but what the heck.  I can't see gettin worked up about it.

8. 
   RicHammond | Jan 23, 2004 10:09pm | #29

   Try MDF.  I did this in my dining room 6 years ago and it is holding up great.  I cut it into 2'x2' squares,  t&G the edges, pattern in a running bond and gluded it to the slab.  Clear sealer.