Help me with your experience here.
I’m interested in cement fiberboard siding products. Hardie board and Certainteeds WeatherBoards seem to be the two “top” runners from the marketing standpoint. Our clients tend to like the look of the grain in the WeatherBoards over Hardie’s wood grain. We had a contractor in the office yesterday who said that they experienced a major failure in the factory “stained” finish of a WeatherBoard installation in the SE Wisconsin area.
I’ve read a lot of the posts regarding Hardie’s difficulty of installation and as a result, am trying to learn a bit about LP’s SmartBoard and Canexel products. I’ve read some of the member posts (from 2002) which seem to indicate the SmartBoard is easier to cut and install as it is wood based not cement based. I’ve also read member posts regarding better insurance rates with the cement fiber boards.
My unanswered questions are:
1. What’s your experience regarding these various products and their factory finishes?
2. Do you use a different product, if so why?
Replies
Lots of Hardie homes around here are 10 years old with original paint and it looks really great
Are those Hardie homes a factory "paint" finish or the factory "stain" finish?
factory pre primed but top coated by the installer
Certainteed here. Pre-primed only.
So far, I love it.
Sorry, thats all I gots.
I'll take what info I can get.
I would look closely at the case"We had a contractor in the office yesterday who said that they experienced a major failure in the factory "stained" finish of a WeatherBoard installation in the SE Wisconsin area." Find out the case details cause it may be the exception that you are looking to use as the rule.
I had a catastrophic failure of a brand new corvette, spun around azz back wards and ran right into the guard rail at 90mph. Bad corvette. See maybe it was a bad batch of guard rails.
Some contractors do not like hardie/ FC
they say its
new
untested
even tho used now for 20+ years.Real reason is
its a little harder to work with and THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO REPLACE IT/RE PAINT IT AGAIN IN 8 YEARS like wood installed outside .
It wasn't that the contractor didn't like the CertainTeed. He said it was a good product but that the "stain" finish was flaking off. Not just on one board but all over the entire house. He also commented that the warrenty wasn't being very helpful in resolving this particular issue. Of course, I have yet to do my back-up research to ascertain what the manufacturer warrenties are. I'll get to it soon.
But he did suggestwe take a look at LP's Smart Side which is a wood based composite material. I realize this probably means more painting than a fiber cement material.
This is why I'm asking the collective brain for their experience in the factory applied finishes, etc of the various product options.
Jen
We have been using Hardie for several years with good luck but have found that in order to get the quality of paint job that we want we are having to do a primer coat and two top coats. We are currently looking at the CertainTeed and the LP Smart Side trying one of each right next to each other so we can compare after they are all painted. I actually think that the Smart side will paint up better than the cement products.
Lots of info on this site with some searching.
On another thread here http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=92777.1
I also will add that I have hit or miss luck with the search on the left side/bottom of the page and advanced search.
But if you ask- folks will help lead to past threads, which usually can answer your questions.
Edited 8/9/2007 10:33 am by ClaysWorld
Just been reading that thread. The homeowner has selected a factory applied color as opposed to the factory primed and field painted material.
I was interested to read the manufacturer's matched caulk colors. I guess that's the first I've heard of that. Makes me realize I have a lot more research to do.
Thanks for the link - Jen
See if this works, http://forums.taunton.com/n/main.asp?qu=hardie+siding&webtag=tp-breaktime&ctx=search&cl=632358&af=10000&o=relevance&be=0 It's the stuff on the left side.
If not I put in hardie siding in the search and came up with 200 entries.
I assume you're talking about SmartSide siding: http://lpcorp.com/sidingtrim/lpsmartside/lpsmartside.aspx
This appears to be an OSB-like product, treated with some sort of resin, with a plastic-like face. It has the potential to be a very good or very poor product, depending on how well the product is engineered and how tightly quality is controlled.
What I would do is get a stick or two of the stuff, and any others you're considering, and tack up pieces exposed to the weather, maybe some painted and some unpainted, some face out, some face in. Also, lay a few pieces on the ground for a few months.
Good quality hardboard siding (and, no, that's not an oxymoron) would swell only very slightly after spending a year on the ground (in Minnesota), so if a piece on the ground (in Wisconsin, I'm assuming) looks pretty good after several months, and the tacked-up pieces also seem to be in good shape, it's likely fairly good stuff.
And I would expect that SmartSide would be significantly easier to install than cement-based siding.One thing I am skeptical of is most factory-applied finishes on composite siding. For some reason factory-applied finishes seem to have more adhesion problems than standard site-applied finishes, perhaps because of the need to use fast-drying paints.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
We aren't in a position where we can wait 6+ months to do the trial you suggest. Hence the reason I'm posting to see what others may have experienced on their projects.
I suspect the easier installation of the LP SmartSide may be one reason the contractor suggested it. Likewise the member posts that I can find related to SmartSide (posted in 2002) seem to speak positively from the standpoint of installation.
Jen,For what it's worth, a neighbour here (rainy Vancouver) used LP on a garage built about a year ago. He soaked a chunk of it in water for a couple of days to see how it did. It seemed unaffected, and the garage still looks good (though it's only been a year). He liked working with it.I believe that LP had some major problems with their first-generation siding. I'm inclined to think that the second-generation should therefore be a lot better, but maybe I just naive!
thank you
why even mess with anything oSB - why not just go with 100% FC?
The masonite of the 80s was a ground up with glue product. they keep reinventing it is sounds like
Because FC has a lot of deficiencies. If I were residing a house, and had a choice between FC and the specific Masonite we have on our house, I'd pick the Masonite, hands down -- lighter, stronger, longer lengths, easier to cut/nail, doesn't absorb moisture, looks better.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I don't want to have to research this to deep but I kind of think the smartside was the improved type of product that came about becase of the massive failure of it ? siding.
Heres a link about the lawsuits but not dated, could go to the source and it would be dated but this is/was years back me thinks.
http://www.hobb.org/hobbv1/lp.shtml
One thing to keep in mind is that there's hardly a siding manufacturer who hasn't been sued several times for supposedly faulty products. Some were truly faulty, some were poorly applied/finished, and some were just cheap stuff that gave about as much service life as could be expected.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
In the day I remember doing some research on it and it wasn't a minor issue.
From Wikipedia -During the 1990s, LP was the defendant in a major class-action lawsuit over its OSB siding product known as Inner Seal, manufactured from the early 1990s through 1996, due to its poor performance in humid environments. This product has since been replaced by other improved siding products. The deadline for filing suit passed in 2002.
Edited 8/9/2007 1:47 pm by ClaysWorld
LP has 3 siding lines.SmartSiding
ABT
and I don't remember what the 3rd one is, but the OP said Centrex.Anyone know the difference between them..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
From a little hunting.
ABT is hardboard siding From info at http://www.lpcorp.com/sidingtrim/lpabtsiding/lpabtsiding.aspx
And the smart side is highly engineered wood product from info at http://www.lpcorp.com/sidingtrim/lpsmartside/lpsmartside.aspx
and search for this I found centrex - ** PREMIUM COLOR. Premium colors are made with Centrex¯, an. exclusive highly durable polymer capstock
But that does not really tell what the difference is between them.At least is not clear on the front pages. If I dug enough there the specification links it MIGHT give some CLUE.BTW, I have used Smartsiding (T-111 pattern) on one some repair project and there is so much resin in that I don't think that water could ever get the to wood in it..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
The hardboard is well you know powder + stuff and the smart side is busted trees and stuff
so mostly chose your poison. I think if they are gonna mimic wood they should go to full size stock for the correct visual effect. Like 7/8,1, 1+1/8".
View Image
So that is the basic difference.ABT is hardware type of product and Smartsiding is osb type of product.That what the question was that I was asking..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
From my knowlege? not much , is that hard board is make belive stuff.
From the LP site you are correct that it's not a easy find on the compositon but with more hunting then I wanted is this little ditty that puts me at like 98% that its stuff with a finish top.
And from this site http://www.endgame.org/lp.html
ABT hardboard lawsuit: L-P's subsidiary ABT (formerly Abiti-Price) is defendant in a class action law suit filed in Alabama state court and six other putative class action proceedings filed in various state courts from 1995 to 1998. Plaintiffs allege unfair business practices, breach of warranty, fraud, misrepresentation, negligence, alleged defects, deterioration, or other failure of ABT hardboard siding. ABT and Abitibi have agreed to an allocation of certain liability.
At one point I used some T-111 that had the topcot process on it but I don't belive ? it was called ABT. It was actually true plywood base.
Edited 8/11/2007 2:23 pm by ClaysWorld
T-111 is orginally a designation for plywood (I think from APA) that could used for siding. It can in different patterns. Plain and several groved (IIRC 4, 8, 12" spacing).But t-111 has become a generic term for any groved siding product..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I'm pretty familiar with t-111. If you paint it up properly I say you can get at least 20yrs out of it with out repaint.
Prime and 2 coats with attention to filling/covering grooves.
The stuff I had a run in with was 4"cc 4x8' and had like a mdo finish for accepting paint.
Still holding up, just a little strange from what I had worked with.
Jen- I'm a contractor in the arrowhead region of Mn. We applied Certainteed WeatherBoard on a 1600 ft2 addition last yr. Customer chose Dutch lap for bottom & b&b for gable ends.Factory warranted paint finish, (now 30 yrs.)
Wausau Supply is our distributor & they sent a rep all the way up here to spend a day with the crew teaching installation requirements and sharing tips etc.A service your contractor might consider if unfamaliar with prod. as I was.
Done properly material looks great & a high level of customer satisfaction.I can only hope Certainteed will honor the 30 yrs if necessary. Just sold another job;soffit,siding & fascia ( using Tech Trim composite for fascia) Good luck - Norskeboy