Replies

1. 
   JohnT8 | Dec 21, 2007 08:20am | #1

   I noticed that one company offers a borated rigid foam panel approved for ground contact in termite areas of the country.

   I think you're talking about the Perform Guard foam at R control:

   http://www.r-control.com/

   I've tried to get this product a couple times, but their nearest rep is 3 or 4 hours away and not interested in my single-house projects, so I don't have any direct experience in using it.  I think Mike Smith has used it.

   Are there any other materials for insulating on the exterior side of a concrete basement wall that are suitable in termite country?

   I don't know of any other product, but know that while termites don't eat the extruded foam (blue/pink), they sure like to burrow through it.  My current project house had bad termite problems and the Dowboard in the crawlspace was full of 'em.  I've got  some pics somewhere that shows some burrows.

   jt8

   "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair

1. 
   rald | Dec 23, 2007 07:55pm | #2

   I am about 3-4 hours from the closest distributor, too. With all the building science pointing to the advantages of insulating the outside of concrete walls, I am surprised by the absence of other material options and the lack of distributors for the one recognized/approved product for this application.I will check out the termite proof/resistant stainless steel mesh products. If I can't get a certified installer with reasonable price and warranty, the building science benefits will forfeit to the termite threat.

1. 
   JohnT8 | Dec 26, 2007 09:47pm | #3

   Termites can come in such a small crack, I'd be suspect of anything that was supposed to screen them out.  One slight gap at a seam and they'd be in.  You might just start a thread on construction methods for discouraging termites.  I'm not nearly as concerned about them getting into the foam as long as I'm keeping them out of the house.  And assuming you're keeping them out of the house and don't have any rotting trees nearby, I don't know why they'd be around.

   I found the pics I'd mentioned earlier in the thread.  A sample of the Dowboard that used to be in my current project house's crawlspace.  Most of it was like an ant farm.

   jt8

   "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair

   Edited 12/26/2007 1:47 pm by JohnT8

1. 
   seiverth | Dec 27, 2007 04:47am | #4

   I never understood the theory of attaching foam board to the exterior wall.  Why not just go ICF, having the benefits of a poured wall and enough insulation to reduce your furnace costs and size?   Also, you would be able to have finished space in the basement.  Insulating half of the problem - - the one that is below grade is only half the battle.  The part above grade still is not insulated.

   In all of my research, just doing this in the basement alone stands to be cost efficient for the builder and owner.  And, most are deemed termite resistant.

1. 
   Biff_Loman | Dec 27, 2007 07:36am | #5

   Good points.

2. 
   JohnT8 | Dec 28, 2007 02:03am | #8

   I never understood the theory of attaching foam board to the exterior wall. 

   Putting your insulation on the outside turns the concrete foundation (or walls) into a large thermal battery.   Makes the inside less susceptable to temperature swings and allows you to store heat (handy if you have a passive solar design).

   Which one would I rather have?  Depends on the setup.  An r-6 insulated wall with the insulation on the outside of the crete isn't going to win versus an R-20 wall with the crete sandwhiched. 

   But if I had a choice of R-20 with the concrete on the inside, I'd probably go with it.

    jt8

   "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair

3. 
   DaveRicheson | Dec 28, 2007 02:37pm | #9

    

   Putting your insulation on the outside turns the concrete foundation (or walls) into a large thermal battery.   Makes the inside less susceptable to temperature swings and allows you to store heat (handy if you have a passive solar design

   I have lost the load calculation I had done on my FIL home 16 or 17 years ago. Energy was much cheaper then, but the real eye catcher in the cacls was the basement foundation walls. They were a bigger heat sink than an equal area of the first floor frame structure with windows.

   It wasn't a big deal then because, although it was a conditioned space, the basement wasn't seperately zoned, and no one occupied it on regular bases. Later BIL lived down there while his house was being built. Not very comfortable.

   I was dealing with a very tight budget when I built that place, so I doubt if I could have done much to change things for the better, even if I had known your above statement.

   For my own place I am using and ICF foundation wall and insulated slab in the basement. I may not really live in my basement, but it will certinly be a more comfortable space to use because of better design and planning.

    

   Dave

    

    

4. 
   seiverth | Dec 28, 2007 08:00pm | #10

   I understand the concept, but the method of foam board is flawed.  With foam board, anything above grade is exposed - - which by the way is just as if not more important than the covered below grade areas.  In my opinion, it's like doing half the job.

2. 
   packerman | Dec 27, 2007 09:27am | #6

   mice!!  talked to an installer of icf in wisconsin and he tells me all is good except in the garage.  mice burrow into the icf and make a hell of a mess, not to mention reducing your r value to mulch.

   fyi

2. 
   DaveRicheson | Dec 27, 2007 02:22pm | #7

   I can't find the link  for alternative termite treatments, so I'm just going from memory (not a good thing right now).

   On method that I remember reading about was a sand barrier. The fill around the foundation wall is sand instead of the native soil, creating a natural barrier that they don't easily cross.

   There were other enviromentaly friendly control methods mentioned on the site. IIRC most were taylored to specific areas of the country.

   I try to find that link and post it for you.

    

   Dave