Am I being an Unreasonable Client???
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I am new to this forum, so please forgive any inadvertent breaches of standard protocols…
Questions to answer after reading the situation I need help with:
1. Am I being an unreasonable client?
2. Has anyone actually compared the total ownership costs of Hardie color-plus versus Hardie pre-primed siding?
3. What is a good budgetary cost estimate for exterior painting of a 1734 sqft home with approx 2500 sqft of exterior surface requiring paint. (My builder tells me $5k, but I always check on his verbal cost statements)
Sitaution I need help with:
I am a homeowner building a custom waterfront home in North Carolina. The builder I hired is young and relatively inexperienced in custom home construction. He agreed to do my project at cost (aka no builder fee) in exchange for the opportunity to put up a sign and break into that market. Our contract (see below section titled “CONTRACT LANGUAGE”) requires the builder to respond to “pricing requests” from the client.
Background: My builder included Hardie Lap Pre-Primed siding in the original budget. As the client, I did a lot of research and concluded that I wanted to explore the cost of procuring and installing Hardie Lap Color-Plus siding during construction. I also wanted to understand how much the exterior paint budget would be reduced by using the Color-Plus. I wanted to compare the additional up-front cost of to the life cycle cost of repainting the exterior every 5-7 years. I submitted my pricing request to my builder on June 25th, 2023. I received the following reply from my builder on August 31st, 2023: 1. Pre finished Hardie lap siding and trim= $15,980.06 (almost twice the cost as unfinished)
I never received any further correspondence on this topic until my future neighbor notified me on December 17th, 2023 (~6 months after my initial pricing request) that the builder had procured and installed the pre-primed siding without finalizing the negotiations with me as the client. When I called my builder to discuss this issue, I was treated as if I didn’t understand what I really wanted and that I should just trust the builder’s judgment. (NOTE: My builder asked for this trust of judgment AFTER the omission of significant structure during framing (which the town inspector caught thank goodness), and selection, procurement, and installation of roofing panels that did not meet contractual requirements. I hope it is clear why I am a little reluctant to just trust this builder.)
Current Status: In order to keep the project moving forward without significant delays, I was forced to accept this unilateral decision from my builder. I am now stuck with a decision I was forced to make without receiving all the information I needed from my builder in order to make a fully-informed decision. I am considering filing a formal complaint with the BBB, but wanted to get some other feedback before doing so. I believe a formal complaint is warranted because the builder took 2 months to provide an estimate for material only, never closed on a final decision with me as the client in the following 4 months, then unilaterally chose a course that may cost me more money in maintenance and upkeep as the owner than spending the extra money up front would have.
Thanks in advance for any insight and feedback.
CONTRACT LANGUAGE
Replies
I think you are asking questions of us that are more suited to an attorney. Is your contractor in error; it's a gray area. Most of us here have done this type of work a long time and many of us remember our first few jobs and the mistakes we made. However, from my perspective I (we) always worked thru the issues communicating with the customer as much as possible. I think you need to sit down with your contractor and talk and listen to each other and work it out.
I agree with you. My only recurring request has been to hold a weekly phone call (not to exceed 40 minutes) to remain aligned. My builder did not agree, however, so here we are unfortunately. I do not think this is an unreasonable request, but maybe it is. I am seeking feedback to determine that.
I'm assuming I'm missing something because from what you wrote here he quoted the cost of the pre-painted siding and you didn't respond for 6 months? If that is true, why in the world didn't you make a decision when he quoted the cost of the change?
I received the builder’s quote for material on August 31st and replied with the email below (applicable portion snipped for brevity):
Sep 7, 2023, at 9:47 PM
snip Here is an update on final decisions we have made and do not want to explore any further:
Hardie Plank Statement Collection Lap siding, Pearl Gray color all over the exterior ($15,980.06 material). I expect there to be…savings in the paint budget to apply in other areas… snip
Ahh. Well the only thing I'll add is that if you look at the fine print of the pre-painted Hardie there is surprisingly little actually covered so it's probably not the end of the world if you stick with primed. On the other hand, it sure is easy to rip off the unwanted Hardie and start over with what you did want.
Yeah…that certainly should be the case. The problem is that the pre-painted material must be ordered and has a lead time, so it’s more than just rip-out. The builder made it sound like he can’t do anything else until he gets the siding installed. So if I decided to change, the project would be delayed…along with the associated costs. This doesn’t make sense to me, but I don’t build houses for a living…
I may be misinterpreting what you wrote, and am neither an attorney nor a contractor. What I think I read is that you asked for the cost of prefinished Hardie vs primed. And you stated that the contractor provided those numbers for you. You also seemed to think he should analyze the cost of the life cycle of the two products. However, based on what you posted of the contract, he provided the information required of him (the difference in cost). It would be your job (if you decided to do so) to do the cost/benefit analysis. Then you didn't reply concerning this matter for six months. In the contract, it stated that if you didn't make the decision by the selection due date that the contractor should proceed with what was in the original proposal. I assume that the date had been passed (since it was 6 months later) but don't know since you didn't post it. Therefore, it seems that he was abiding by the contract in going ahead and ordering the siding.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I may have missed something but just scanning through what you wrote.
Not knowing what the selection due date was for you to make final decision, it appears that he may have had the right to make the selection himself if you didn't give him an actual selection before the selection due date even though you requested pricing.
The verbiage appears to convey that you are entitle to make "selection price requests" and that they need to be dated/submitted to the contractor, however it does not state that the contractor is required to provide a price for said selection, nor does it say that "if a price request is submitted but the contractor doesn't responded before the selection due date that the contractor shall not make a selection until the owner agrees.
But it does say the the contractor CAN make a selection.
If it was me the contract would have said something along the lines of, selection pricing requests by owner to contractor are due before x date, and selection pricing quotes are sent back to owner from contractor by x date. If both have not happened, then nothing can be purchased. But if no selections were submitted ever by owner within due date, then the contractor can select. So basically the lack of this type of verbiage is sort of screwing you.
However the contractor is a PoS like most of them IMO, and should have got back to you and really should have called you before he did anything.
But you also took a huge risk by hiring this guy with the conditions you described.
Anyways you sort of seem to be over concerned about this.
You gambled hard and lost a little at least he didn't totally eff you over.
Just give him an honest review. My.02
Based on the provided information:
1. **Unreasonable Client:** No, you are not being unreasonable. You followed the agreed-upon process by submitting a pricing request to explore options for your home's siding. Your concerns about the builder's unilateral decision and lack of communication are valid.
2. **Comparison of Hardie Siding Costs:** The information provided doesn't specify a direct comparison between the total ownership costs of Hardie Color-Plus versus Hardie Pre-Primed siding. It seems your primary concern is about the decision-making process and lack of communication rather than a specific cost comparison.
3. **Budgetary Cost Estimate for Exterior Painting:** Your question regarding the budgetary cost estimate for exterior painting is a separate matter. If your builder estimated $5k, it's prudent to cross-verify this information with other professionals to ensure accuracy, especially given your past experiences with the builder's verbal cost statements.
Considering the issues you've faced, filing a formal complaint with the BBB seems reasonable, given the builder's history of omissions and unilateral decisions. Ensure you document all relevant communication, including your initial pricing request, the builder's response, and subsequent events. This documentation will be valuable in any dispute resolution process. It's essential to protect your interests and ensure transparency in the construction process.
adressing all