…putting a new roof on g-g-grandpa’s barn –
5 twenty-something amish men and their ‘english’ driver pulled in about 7:30 this morning – a duelly pick-up pulling a trailer had dropped off lumber and metal last friday –
the barn is a bank structure (not originally, I have photo’s of it being moved west about 80′ onto a basement that had been constructed in/over a gravel pit)
first order of business was strapping over the existing roof with 2X4 secured with 6″ pole barn nails – fascia is a 2X6 nailed under a 2X4 – they overhung the 2X4’s off the gables and nailed a 2X4 underneath, then flashed with metal for that detail –
“there’s enough for everyone”
Replies
that was the easy side, with a nice low pitched porch to work off of - the other side is relatively high - working over the top they did a similar job on the west side, working down - the fascia edge was interesting - assembled on the ground and this one young idiot...er amishman slung a 32' assembly on his shoulder and carried it up a ladder extended to its extreme to two others who were hanging over the edge (by their toenails? - no ropes, no nothing) -
View Image
who needs toenails when God's on your side? :}nice pics, I once rode the train with an Amish man and had a 2-3 hour chat with him, fascinating culture and an interesting man. He was coming back from an Indian reservation after having been made an honorary elder of the tribe. During the ride I spotted some marijuana growing wild along the tracks (hemp I guess) and we had a long conversation about legalizing pot - how weird is that?
I once rode the train with an Amish man and had a 2-3 hour chat with him...
ya, there is signifigant numbers of the sect in Indiana - and I've had various dealings with them over the years - had one operating a crane while building a bridge right down the road - good chats with him - the young have their 'wild years' where they are turned loose before they are expected to come back and enter the church formally and give up all that - his adopted son had left and not come back -
they are also good customers, easy to sell bushels of fruit to extended families of many individuals - gotta deliver tho...
"there's enough for everyone"
The Amish men might be able to live out theire "wild years" but I highly doubt the females are allowed such liberties.For the females there is nothing but drudgery and oppression.No thanks. I'll stay right here.I've seen 'em at the bus stops and such and I used stare and smile at the young men when I was in my twenties just to get them all nervous and conflicted.
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they had the strapping done and were putting metal on before lunch - by early afternoon the high side was done and they were back on the east -View Image
"there's enough for everyone"
So do the Amish not fall into OSHA jurisdiction?Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
OSHA? I do not know - - they are exempted from various educational mandates - safety against their religion? might be...
dad hired this crew in after they did another barn in the area - this is about as far as they travel from home base - I didn't see them working on the other barn - I just crossed my fingers and held my breath today -
"there's enough for everyone"
I'd bet money they don't carry WC either...
"there's enough for everyone"
I've never figured out the rules for these guys. There's quite a few of them working around here and I have great respect for them. But, they won't drive a car, but they'll ride in one. They don't have electricity in their homes, but they give Dewalt a lot of business.
How can they believe in a God that won't let them have electricity in their own homes, but forces them to use it in order to make a living. Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
as it's been explained to me, it's not the electricity, but being hooked up to the grid where that would require someone to work on sunday -
one of the families I sell to runs dairy and have a deisel generator to run the parlor - and well - and various convienences - and all the kids (7 at last count) have these led headlights -
hard workers generally, but rough short lives -
"there's enough for everyone"
My understanding on the electricity "in the house" question:
The incoming electrical cable constitutes a physical "tie to the outside world".
"Outside world" = non-Amish community.
It's not the electricity - it's the cable that is a problem. Generators for work / farm machinery are cool with them - generator and it's electricity are all within the Amish community.
Had an Amish mason work for me who explained this seemingly contradictory situation to me.
As a general rule I think the Amish are very cool - they do their thing and quietly observe their own self-created rules without trying to shove them down anybody else's throats. Hard working group.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Back when I was about 8 or so, my Gpa "sold the Farm" all 465 acres of it. It had been in the family since 1734.
Amazingly, he sold the barn to some Amish ( we are close kin to them) and a slew , maybe 20, men women and children drove wagons from Lancaster Pa, to Towamencin,PA...a 2 day ride at least..and began to mark and disassemble the barn.
If I recall what Gpa said, it was 2 days to raze it and load it up. They hauled it home and rebuilt it. AFAIK, it still stands.
When i was in NC, I met a guy who purchased barns in LAncaster county PA and tore them down and resold them in NC for 4-5x the cost he paid to the departing Amish families...kinda hard to tell from a heap of wood, but I always wondered if I wasn't helping him rebuild our old barn..so I asked my dad and verified, that "ours" was still standing...that was about 5 yrs ago.
BTW, thanks for the phone call. I just heard it. Wife had told me something about a call saved on the machine from "some guy on the forum..."
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As a general rule I think the Amish are very cool - they do their thing and quietly observe their own self-created rules without trying to shove them down anybody else's throats
There is alot to be said for this. I'm not Amish,but in a different context, I think we all share alot of these same characteristics.
...'n they sure did make some bag today....
"there's enough for everyone"
I think part of the rationale for no electricy is that some of it gets generated on "the sabbath" Since they do not beliefve in woirking that day, it wouold be insincere of them to require others to work then to provide power for them. So why they don't just trip the switch saturday nite is beyond my ken...There is a whole lot of strange rationalizing goes on in that sect...
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Piffin
So why they don't just trip the switch saturday nite is beyond my ken...
LOL
The Amish in Iowa, same place that WetHeadWarrior's dad grew up, are just like the Amish any other place. We'd go there to get some reclaimed beams and they wouldn't use rubber wheeled tractors but they did have steel wheeled ones, apparently round isn't a problem, rubber is!
No matter how quirky, the're very interesting people, and I mean that in a good way.
Doug
Quirky...they don't have mirrors at all in some homes, anmd in others they can have a small hand held that is then laid face down after the morning cleanup toiletries are finished with. This is a fight against vanity, or the temptation thereto.
But I wonder if it is a matter of temperment too. I am a vary taciturn type and rarely even think to look in the mirror to comb my hair in the AM. I'm quite sure there are times that I have gone 3-4 days without haviong a clue what I look like...
My daughter more than makes up for me when it comes to average or total viewings in this house though...Of course, if you had the choice of looking at her, or looking at me, you'd probably wait four days between peeks too, at least! LOL
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Of course, if you had the choice of looking at her, or looking at me, you'd probably wait four days between peeks too, at least! LOL
Yea, I've seen pictures of the both of you and I'd opt to view her as well, nothing personal mind ya, but you know!
Like you I dont have to much interest in seeing myself, hell, I remember what I look like, what do I need a mirror for! I keep my hair short enough that a rub of the head is all it takes to groom it.
Doug
We lived near large Amish communities in NE Indiana, and from my observations, they can differ greatly in what is allowed, depending on location.
The large Grabill community, east of Fort Wayne, permitted their people the use of power construction tools, as long as operating under generators. They disdained closed buggies, however, while the communities to the north and west all permitted the use of closed-in buggies.
I live in nwohio and I would'nt give two cents for any of the houses they build. Technology has left these guys behind bigtime. Try trimming a house with out of plumb walls. They don't square up foundations unless you stand there and make sure they do. They short studs in walls. Most of these guys come straight of the farm and don't have a clue about layouts with I-joist or the headers we use today. I could go on all day. Not to mention the builders they put out of business because the work so cheep. I guess you get what you pay for. Don't get me wrong I know some great amish but they look down on you because your english.
.... I would'nt give two cents for any of the houses they build....
I agree - there are those that tout 'Amish craftsmanship', but in my experience 'Amish' = 'cheap' - - they are generally poor people that make do with fewer things and squeeze a nickel such as to give Junkhound a run for the money -
quality varies wildly as kids are pulled out of school after 8th grade and put to work - 'craftsmanship' is about what you would expect from a 14 yo -
on the other hand, if you need a wooden wagon wheel repaired, they pretty much have a lock on the industry -
this crew here was experienced, and had an excellent rythm and wasn't thrown any curve balls -
a real pleasure to watch work -
"there's enough for everyone"
I think another part of the 'no electricity' business is just a simple reminder that they are separated from the rest of the society so they can concentrate on God, family, and work. It'd be hard to remember that if you had lights and a truck and 'net access and ... How many Amish guys you know ever fall off those roofs and bad injured? Maybe there's something to the big hats after all. Is the Lord an OSHA approved fall restraint?
I grew up in Lanc. PA surrounded by Amish farms. Great area for bike riding as a 10 yr old. Easy stop at any church or school house for all the drinking water you can pump!In the Lanc. area there are many many different shades of black buggy, grey buggy, amish, menonite. Some can't have electricity in the house, but in the barn is fine. Some can drive cars but they can't have chrome. Some can have a tractor, but it just can't have rubber tires. I never knew the rationale, but I do know there are a lot of different rationales.BTW, seeing a team of horses plowing a field is pretty darn cool.eric
I know about differing rationale`s. to start with, i am a human being, LOLI am also a Mennonite who drinks alcohol and is a member of the NRA...
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Hey Splat, I grew up there, too. Manheim Twp, Hunsicker Road, right where the covered bridge crossed the Conestoga Creek. You're right about great biking as 10 year old.Local contractor wanted to buy my parents house, cool 3 storey stone house w/saw/gristmill on the creek w/a dam and mill race. Parents didn't want to sell, so he decided he'd copy it. So, my first construction job (16) was as an Amish masonry crew's helper...well stone humper.They were, bar none, the funniest bunch of guys I have ever worked with, not to mention the fact that they did the best stone work I have ever seen. With all those stones up over my head, I had to trust each and every one of them explicitly.That said, I've worked with a gay Amishman, been beaten up by an amish kid, been given free pies by Amish neighbors, and been told by my dad to never buy a horse from an Amishman.They can still turn a profit as farmers, cause they don't have to have a bigger tractor than their neighbor, and they still do the organic thing.I'm not trying to explain them, just saying I thoroughly enjoy them, and feel lucky they've been part of my life. Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
Be careful now - your credibility is at stake here...Was that Amish kid who beat you up a guy or a girl? Inquiring minds want to know, LOL
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Did I ever tell you about the transvestite Amishman?<G> Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
Not yet
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Well ???
He milked the cows in high heels...naaaaah<G< Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
>>>>the cows in high heels..Since when do cows wear high heels ?And what do the rest of them wear, "comfy" shoes ?
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength. ~~ Eric Hoffer
I waited for that!
I'm so disapointed
Dang, that's Splat and you . . . and me, too. I was raised in Lebanon County. We used to buy bread from the Amish and went into their homes to pick it up. Wonderful people. And you're right, the bicycle riding in that area, in that time, was grand. Beautiful farms, wide roads with the little narrow lane on the side for , well, buggies AND bicycles !
I would have graduated from Cedar Crest High School if we hadn't been transferred to Wales. Should have been Class of '74.
Greg
I was in the amish land of Leola (Conestoga Valley schools) till junior high then we moved cross town to the very un-amish hempfield school district.
Its still hard for me to buy canteloupe from a store. I was definitely used to getting them at the amish farm stands. And corn too. My wife from W. NY doesn't even trust the freshness of farm stand corn. For her fresh is when you pay the person and they walk back into the field and pick it for you.
you got me by a few, i was class of 92.
eric
Reminds me of one of my dad's stories, who grew up on a Wisc. dairy farm and has much better stories than I will ever have...like the time he rode...or actually got pulled/carried/dragged/held on for dear life by a raging show bull through the wisconsin state fair. They had a rather large herd with many champion show cows. The general herd got milked on the machines, but the "fancy" cows got the hand treatment. There was one guy who did all the hand milking and therefore looked like Popeye with forearms bigger than most people's thighs. Along with the milking was a generous application of bag balm on the udders. So there was this massive man who had the absolutely softest hands of anyone in the state.
don't know if he wore high heels or not though.
splat
It has nothing to do with what God dictates. These are the cultural values. Certain things they and the elders agree they won't do and certain things they will.
Those who violate these values don't go to Hell, they are Shunned.
Stef
I have nothing but respect for the Amish. That comment was a reference to a previous thread. You'd understand if you'd read it.Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
3 PM and they were outta here - I was impressed with their speed (they've done a lot of these), if not their technique - they will be back tomorrow to finish the soffit - View Image
"there's enough for everyone"
Is it possible that they are all family? I know that family businesses that do not employ non-family members are exempt from certain regulations. Don't know if OSHA is one of those things or not.
Who knows? I wonder if they even go to the hospital if injured? There's quite a few Amish working in this area. There's several communities within an hour's drive of here. I've not personally worked with them, but one of my subs has installed several copper bay roofs on houses they were working on. He really enjoys working around them (I think because they're interested in his craft).Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
View Image
"there's enough for everyone"
I didn't think the Amish liked having their photos taken? Something about graven images, I think?Andy
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
I didn't think the Amish liked having their photos taken?
you are correct - we had a chat about it and I showed them what I was doing - basically as long as no one is recognizable this crew wasn't too worried - no personal portrait close-ups tho -
"there's enough for everyone"
I don't blame them. I wouldn't want anyojmne to have evidence that I was hanging my chicken ladders that way or working so close to a power line without a rubber blanket.. I can see some reason why they mightn't be up on the concept of electricity and its killing ways, but gravity still works no matter what your religion.The one hanging the fascia reminds me of the time I replaced a wood gutter 38' long alone. I premade the return ends, measured and marked where center was on both subfascia and the gutter, predrilled and started a few screws, then carried it up balance across my arms, then the spitting and sputtering started until I had the first couple screws wound in...now I'M WONDERING WHY THAT SHOULDER HURTS? LOL
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I hung a 45' piece of gutter solo once. Used two 40' ladders spaced about 15' in from each end with ladder jacks on each. I laid the gutter on the jacks and moved each side up a couple of rungs at a time until I got it to the second story. Screwed it in above each ladder and moved the ladders to get to the rest of the fasteners. My legs were tired from going up and down the ladders so much.Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
You probably saw the gutter I'm thinking of when you were here - it's on the lighthouse museum building at the ferry landing.good work keeps us young, right?
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I figured you knew that and had some arrangement, but didn't want to see you in a faux pas.Andy
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
I've got a lot of respect for Amish folks. Hard working, family orientated, non offensive folks. It's a miracle that they've survived this long.
I think the rest of us play WAY too much 'keep up with the Joneses'. Instead of burning all our resources trying to buy the latest garbage, we should focus those resources on quality of life.
Although... I ain't quite ready to join up with the buggy crowd. The rules are a little too strict for my liking.
jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
You know, in many many ways, sometimes I think it's the Amish who've got it right... while the rest of us are just beating our heads against the wall. It's definitely worth thinking about anywho.View Image
You know, in many many ways, sometimes I think it's the Amish who've got it right... while the rest of us are just beating our heads against the wall. It's definitely worth thinking about anywho.
But you'd have to get a whole community geared that way. Otherwise you'll have a hard time explaining to your kids the reason why you spend 2 hours driving to town in the buggy when the other folks go speeding by in their cars and are there in 10 mins.
Or even if you're just trying to simplify by not buying every piece of crap that comes out.... there is a fine line between simplifying and simply having the kids who don't have any fun new toys.
I think there is a small town in IL somewhere where they've decided against the 'keeping up with the Jones', can't remember what its called though. I think they live as a community...efficient houses, family/community orientated lives. Interesting idea as long as there aren't too many rules.
jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
I guess it all comes down to the oldest of human struggles...... balance. What the he11 do I know?... I know how to go through a stack of Benjamins like nobody I've ever met. But there's another side of me that would like to see life a bit simpler. I hate it when I get to the point where I feel like the things I own.... own me.
I guess I was just saying that a simpler life sounds refreshing to me sometimes. But you're right.... there's a lot about my life that would never fit in with in an Amish lifestyle and that I'd never even consider giving up. Electricity being a good start. LOL.View Image
I completely agree with you. Wasn't disagreeing, just trying to figure out how it could be done. And I don't mean becoming Amish, I mean just making things a bit more simplified without looking like the poor man on the block.
A little less spending, so that you can put a little $$ in the bank, and maybe not have to work quite so hard... more time with family and friends and time to just enjoy this train ride we're on prior to the engine getting to the station.
But how to do it? Is there a handbook with instructions?
jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
Is there a handbook with instructions?
http://dogbert.abebooks.com"there's enough for everyone"
I went to the woods because I wanted to live life deliberately. I wanted to live deep, and suck out all the marrow of life. To put to rout all that was not life, and not when I have come to die, discover that I had not lived --HDT in Walden
Or...
The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. Most of the luxuries, and many of the so-called comforts of life, are not only dispensible, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind....Shall we always study to obtain more of these things, and not sometimes to be content with less? I would rather sit on a pumpkin and have it all to myself than be crowded on a velvet cushion.
jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
exactly - the path is yours, grasshopper - -
"there's enough for everyone"
People are the same, only different.They have their own problems too - the grass is always reener when you're onb the othyer side of the fence. Secret to happiness is more to get it right where you are now.
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I grew up in Waterloo County, Ontario, and there it's Old Order Mennonites rather than Amish. All shades of Mennonites there, from people with no outward signs of their faith through the "black bumper" types (i.e. black cars or cars with no chrome etc.) all the way to the strict anachronists with their open horsedrawn buggies and their horse teams in the fields.
One fellow had a diesel running a line shaft that drove all his woodworking equipment. He loved my dad's homemade woodworking machinery because it was easy to adapt to run off the lineshaft via a flat belt.
Independence from larger society and the avoidance of vanity/idolatry seemed to be the goal. Tools were good, but not if they became a distraction- so a phone was OK in the barn for business or emergencies but not in the house for gossip. But that diesel supply was no less a link to the outside world than an electrical line would be, so it seemed a strange compromise.
A friend of mine just bought a wooden pole building from a national company. Their installers were 2 Amish guys. They had a driver that dropped them off, and picked them up.
Any idea if the Amish are still tax exempt?
This thread reminds me of a story a few years back when an Amish community was busted for growing drugs on their farm. I'll have to google for the story.
--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat.
Found it, I guess they weren't growing the drugs, just selling them.
une 23, 1998
Philadelphia (AP) -- Two Amish men have been accused of buying cocaine from a motorcycle gang called the Pagans and then distributing it to young members of the conservative religious sect.
"Bikes and buggies, it's a rather strange combination," Pennsylvania State Police Maj. Robert Werts said of Tuesday's indictment of Abner Stoltzfus, 24, and Abner King Stoltzfus, 23. The men are not related. [Yeah, right!]
Both men are members of the Old Order Amish, the most conservative Amish sect. The Amish eschew automobiles, electricity, computers, fancy clothes and most other modern conveniences. They use horse-driven buggies for transportation. There are about 20,000 Old Order Amish in Lancaster County, where the pair are from.
The indictment accuses the men of buying drugs from eight members of the Pagans between 1993 and 1997. The two would then distribute the cocaine to youth groups known as the Crickets, the Antiques, and the Pilgrims at dances.
At a press conference Tuesday, authorities painted a picture of the motorcycle gang world, characterized by drugs and reckless behavior, colliding with the serene, traditional lifestyle of the Pennsylvania Amish.
"As far as I know we have never charged any [Amish] with drug crimes," said assistant states attorney Joseph Dominguez.
John Pyfer, who is representing Abner Stoltzfus, said the Amish are not immune to the pressures of modern society.
"People think the Amish are sheltered from the outside world, but the temptations are there," he said. "My client's parents are extremely conservative -- horse and buggy the whole bit. They're having a hard time understanding this."
At the time of their indictment, the two men were participating in a "timeout" period in which young Amish men and women explore the outside world and decide whether to join the church. Both men intended to join, their lawyers said.
If convicted of the charges, the pair face a maximum sentence of life in prison.--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat.
there was an tragedy in northern indiana a couple/three years back where some youthful amish were drag racing their buggies and one crashed and was killed (no cars involved) -
as the crane operator told me, 'everyone is the same' or words to that effect -
"there's enough for everyone"
About a million years ago, I was a t a craft fair in the Brandywine area of Delaware and there was a fellow there who took pictures of the Amish. He lived there and knew the deal about faces; they knew him. He got a few front pictures somehow - they have different sects too.
Anyway, he had one of an Amish barn raising. There must have been 40-50 guys on the roof, all pretty much dressed alike, hats, etc. They covered the barn, and some on the ground too. It was an awsome picture. All I could think of was the depth of the community that would do this for each other, for free. I didn't buy the picture that day although I really liked it. Took the guy's card and tried to get in touch with him some years later, but he never answered when I wrote, nor did the phone work. I've kicked myself a hundred times for not buying that one that day.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Consttruction - Rentals
you'll like this thenhttp://images.google.com/images?q=%22amish+barn+raising%22&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images
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Piffen - Right you are, and thanks. I did like those, and there was one shot that came close to what I remember from the show. Not quite sure if I'm going to go for it or keep looking. Maybe I'll have to track down a good sized barn raising and take my own.<G> On the other hand, I missed one good photo, don't want to say I missed two.
As far as living in their world, I don't think I'm up to that challenge. Like Diesel says, that electricity stuff gets kind of habit forming after a while. It's truly a different world, one where you have time to think about what you are doing and WHY you are doing it. That's important.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Don, what I had in mind wasn't to become Amish, just simplify.
How about a net-zero house (one that produces as much as it uses)? And some acres that would let you raise some critters (cattle) as well as having your own firewood and room for a big garden. Not that I'm going to become a rancher. More likely if I had some pasture land, I'd lease it to a rancher/farmer with an agreement that he'd take care of my critters in exchange for grazing rights (this is starting to sound like a Steinbeck novel).
Be a little less concerned with having to have that 60" plasma TV or the $400 cell phone... or the $40k vehicle that has to be traded in every couple years.. or the 6k sqft house..or...
How about a shorter work week? Spend more time with the family and friends.
I don't mind working, but what I don't like is putting in long days and feeling like I'm a dollar short and a day late. The feeling that I'm serving the clock rather than the clock serving me. Tick, tock, tick tock.
I have a few friends who have tried to simplify. One parent giving up their job and staying home with the kids (2 with stay at home Mom's and 1 with a stay at home Dad). Typically they have 1 'good' car (and one beater), modest home, modest furnishings, etc.
But its getting difficult to find 'modest' homes that are in safe neighborhoods. And once you sign on for an ugly mortgage payment, you're already on the road to racing just to keep up.
jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
John its not that complicated. I simplified my life about 3 years ago. As the Nike adds say, just do it.
I sold all my toys, my house, both cars, furniture, electronics, and moved into an efficiency apartment. I had no TV, or anything. I checked out books at the library, and read 5 or 6 a week. I bought a 1974 pick-up that was parked on a farm, and used as a chicken coup. Fixed it up, and drove it. Including rent, and groceries I was spending about $425 a month. While making the same salary as before. It was a helluva raise.
Now, life is slightly more complex, the apartment is bigger, but I still spend about 1/3 of what I used too. I even bought a new car, but never drive it. I'll build my dream house with no mortgage in less than 2 years.
Once you start to save money, it's like a drug. You just want to stockpile as much as you can. Invest it wisely, and retire early.
--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
Edited 1/11/2006 12:30 pm ET by dustinf
I've got a buddy that's a "Minimalist" He has the basic necessities. No cable, no cell, no extra trappings at all. He's retired from the army and owns his own karate school in the seven lakes area of Norht Carolina. His school is 5 years old and is paying for itself and making a little profit. He never borrowed a dime to open it. Saved all the money before hand and then purchased his equipment. Mats for example are very expensive. I believe his house is paid off. His wife is a CPA and brings home pretty good money. He has fifty grand in the bank. He's not a penny pincher. He just doesn't have any clutter. No cell phone, no home computer etc.
He lives a very comfortable life without all the extra trappings. He formed his habits while in the army. He did alot of work with indigenous people who had nothing more then a cooking pot and a flat sheet of metal. That's all they ever owned their whole lives and they're content. During Gulf war one I moved everything he owned in one load in the back of my pick up truck. This is after he'd been in the army for probably ten years.
I guess my point here is that he's decided that he doesn't have to keep up with anybody. Yet he's surpassed most people as far as long term goals of financial independance and what not. Very good guy to study.
http://www.hay98.com/
John - Simplification is a good thing, in my world. Based on the standards you offered, I'm there. Well, almost. I've got over 12 acres, about half wooded but no animals yet. I don't know if I'm ready for that responsibility; vet bills, twice daily feedings, cleaning stalls (or cleaning off shoes), castrating, butchering, etc. Your system sounds okay. We'll see what happens. Good luck to you.
Don K.
EGJ Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
well i was raised catholic and i dont care if the pope and the bishops were doing a job. but why do i have to pay wc and follow osha. theres major fines there and morely its wrong to put guys in harms way. this is why i cannot compete being honest and am going out. then see people use god to underbid ticks me off. if they want to farm with there familys god bless em but come into biz with rules the heck with them.
I live in central PA, lots of Amish around.Several years ago my car broke down on a back road. Was waiting for a ride near an Amish farm. Sitting on my hood near an Amish farm I saw the most bizarre thing.One guy leads horses out, one by one. He wrestled them to the ground and pinned them down. Another guy then used a whip to beat the crap out of each horse.Sure seemed like a harsh way to "break" them. Thought I was dreaming.Todd
Weeelll, we won't talk about the Amish guy who got busted for propositioning a girl in the Kmart parking lot, wanting her to go into the woods with him.
be some of the Amish girls can be pretty once you get past the boots and bonnets. Wait, let me rephrase that.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
be some of the Amish girls can be pretty once you get past the boots and bonnets. Wait,
I'm sure there's a website out there for that. ;)
jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
Something like http://www.amishschoolgirl.com?
You are making an assumption that they pay no WC etc. Some do and some don'tI would bet though, that in my state, there is a bonafide exclusion for most of them, not based on religion. It is that a small contractor who only uses family for help does not have to cover them with WC. They do pay social seciurity, It is opting out of recieving it that they do to separate themselves from the system. They don't mind paying what is due to "Ceasar"
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Well I have to tell this story related to me from my brother who works with this guy.
Guy had inherited a large farm on the outskirts of Sandusky and had leased it to some renters who were suppose to keep an eye on things. They didn't.
Periodically throughout the year the guy would show up there to check on his turf. He was riding a fourwheeler around there and on one of the roads that abutted his property he noticed a driveway heading into the woods.
Thinking perhaps someone was stealing timber he investigated and found a clearing on his land and a house in process of being built.
An older amish gentlemen came out with a shotgun and told him to get off his land.
So the guy gathers all the deeds and paperwork and gets the sheriff. So he and the sheriff go back and the amish gentlemen comes out with the shotgun and does the same thing to the sheriff. Roar!
Sheriff returns with a team, take the guy and the thing ends up in the courts.
The house had no plumbing or electric yet but the judge ruled in favor of the owner to have security cameras installed and the costs charged to the amish until the final decision of the court.
The land was an 80year stand that hadn't been timbered and the amish had been selling lumber off it in addition to building the house.
The owner ended up with the house and a dollar settlement.
It was discovered the amish gentlemen had done similar beforehand, then attempting to buy the land cheap after being discovered homesteading. Didn't fly this time.
be a black buggy
'Nemo me impune lacesset'
No one will provoke me with impunity
That land story just doesn't surprise me. They seem to have a great antipathy towards the "english" as is required for them to justify that their existance is superior. And poverty breeds desperation.I've heard some pretty awfull stories about how females are treated and its pretty obvious that women are a second class citizen. I view them with disdain and distrust, just as they view me a female.
So, you ever shop at Kmart? :o)
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
There are such abussers in every subculture, but theirs is a culture that seems to facilitate those who do misbehave. That doesn't make them all abusive though.
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You are right on that Piffin. But I'll steer clear of the cultures that more or less are stuck in the days prior to women's sufferage. And that means a lot of them. ') Thats when I say, thank god I an american.
Never met one I didn't like. Carpenter around here has 13 kids - he's ~ 37. His father in law has 13 (he's about 57 - his carpenter son in law married his oldest), he has 7 other kids married - 52 grandchildren.
I took my grandsons out to visit (along with pea-shooters for all) and they got a ride in the buggy (drive even). He's a craftsman - also very inovative getting around his complications.
Edited 1/10/2006 11:13 pm ET by Fonzie