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An American handyman in Scotland

PenobscotMan | Posted in General Discussion on February 1, 2009 08:19am

I’m in Edinburgh helping my daughter and SIL do a “loft conversion”, which is basically turning an attic into living space. Thought BTers would be interested in my experiences. I’ll post items as they occur to me. Some, so far:

Everything is metric. A 4X8 sheet of DW is 1200 mm by 2400 mm. A 2X4 except they call it a 4X2) is a nominal 100 by 50 mm. Although I’m pretty familiar with the metric system, it;s a bit of a challenge doing it automatically. Arithmetic is so much easier — not more trying to figure i/3 of 17 5/16 inches.

Blocks are called dwangs. In England they are called noggins.

A framer is called a joiner.

No drywall sanding. They apply 5mm of plaster over. So it’s square edged. And they have nice small thin sheets for ceilings. 9.5 m thick, cal 3.8 inches.

Sparkies don’t drill through joists — they notch the top. No metal plate over is apparently required. Scary.

Since the voltage is 220, the cables are about half the size of 12 or 14 gauge romex.

More later. Need to go hump some more sheets into the loft.

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  1. bobbys | Feb 01, 2009 08:27pm | #1

    I have a Scottish friend , I cant understand him at all.

    But to be fair he does not understand my Jersey accent either.

    1. PenobscotMan | Feb 01, 2009 10:36pm | #7

      I understand about 25% of the speech of the joiner who framed in the upstairs rooms. Huge range of accents here, based on region and social class.Wood buildings? Not a one. No asphalt shingles anywhere, except on rural outbuildings. Slates, tiles or manufactured slates only.Bill, the wiring system is a huge mystery. Also, all the outlets are switched, which is hugely inconvenient trying to get floor lamps on. Oh -- Electricians are called "sparks", like "sparkies" in the US.

  2. theslateman | Feb 01, 2009 08:31pm | #2

    A bit different than Vinalhaven    Eh??

    1. PenobscotMan | Feb 01, 2009 10:30pm | #5

      You betcha. For one, typical temperatures here are in the 40's. It was minus 9 in Vinalhaven a few days ago. The Gulf Stream gives the British Isles a armer climate they deserve based on their Labrador-like latitude.

  3. User avater
    BillHartmann | Feb 01, 2009 08:40pm | #3

    "Since the voltage is 220, the cables are about half the size of 12 or 14 gauge romex."

    Is for the British Ring Circuits.

    Those are rated a 30 amps and run in ring with both connected to the panel (IRCC it is called a Consumer Unit).

    And then each plug has fuses in it to match the load.

    It is really a nice system. Basically each receptacle becomes a distributed sub-panel.

    .
    William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
  4. User avater
    Jeff_Clarke | Feb 01, 2009 09:32pm | #4

    How many houses with wood exteriors (of any kind) have you seen?   ;o)

    Have you heard the story yet of why they fire a 1:00 PM gun at Edinburgh castle and not a 12:00 noon gun?

    Jeff

  5. junkhound | Feb 01, 2009 10:34pm | #6

    Mon, wud dred the permit system in West Lothian, worked in Linlithgow for a few 2 week stretches for a few years helping out a company called Racal, since sold to Thales and moved to Warwick or some such.

    These folks were on a few hilltop acres, absolutely could not get any permits to expund the plant, few years later all those jobs dissapeared from the area.

    When was first there in '99, they had exanded into the basement of the existing building, were not allowed to dig anything more out, floor was basically 18th century serf dug flatness, e.g not flat like the main hall of Linlithgow castle.

    edit PS:  the cost of tools over there seems to rival that of Japan.  Took an old bicycle over with me with a small underseat sized (but checked) suitcase of old (junk to even me) tools to keep the bike running.  Left the bike and tools to plant people, one engineer told me the set of crescent slip joint pliers I gave him would cost L35 there, told him I got it at a USA garage sale for  25 cents. Sure loved riding that bike along the canal, guy I gave the $5 garage sale bike to thought he'd gotten gold.

    More PS addition:  probably will be going thru EDI in early May, you want I should load a suitcase for you with 'essentials'??  <G>       


    Edited 2/1/2009 2:39 pm ET by junkhound



    Edited 2/1/2009 2:42 pm ET by junkhound

    1. PenobscotMan | Feb 03, 2009 11:49am | #27

      Yeah, tools seem expensive here, but not as bad as before with the relatively stronger dollar (I mean, not as bad for Americans). We buy from Screwfix which will deliver next day. The Makita, etc. prices seem comparable to American prices. We are paying about 4 pounds (ca. 6 dollars) for a sheet of 12.5 mm drywall, which seems good by American standards.

  6. User avater
    JeffBuck | Feb 02, 2009 12:45am | #8

    do U need a helper?

    Edinburgh is one of my favorite cities!

     

    btw ... the more U drink the easier they are to understand.

    favorite pub is the malt shovel inn.

    Jeff

        Buck Construction

     Artistry In Carpentry

         Pittsburgh Pa

    1. diamond_dodes | Feb 02, 2009 02:12am | #10

      I remember The Malt Shovel on Cockburn st. Nice little pub.

      1. fingersandtoes | Feb 02, 2009 03:19am | #11

        It's funny now everyone reads the Rebus novels and thinks Edinburgh is full of hard men.

        1. junkhound | Feb 02, 2009 03:30am | #13

          thinks Edinburgh is full of hard men

          Cannot recall the exact year, but was in EDI during the 'march on the mound'.  Did not know what was going on, thought maybe it was some protest against the Iraq war.

          So, walk out into the street and march a ways with the folks to see what the march was about, turned out to be the nicest people, marching to protest proposed ban on fox hunting. Took the train back out toward Falkirk afterwards with a couple of Lairds and talked about shotguns, hunting, and firearms the whole way out. (turns out most even small time US gun collectors have more of an 'arsenal' than most constabularies in UK)

        2. drystone | Feb 02, 2009 10:54pm | #20

          Get ye down to the Oxford Bar in Young Street, Edinburgh, featured in the Reabus novels. 

          1. kate | Feb 03, 2009 01:31am | #21

            As a counterbalance to the Rebus novels, look for the Isabel Dalhousie novels by Alexander McCall Smith - also 44 Scotland Street - wonderful for the atmosphere of the more civilized side of Edinburough life -

          2. doorboy | Feb 03, 2009 02:12am | #23

            There's a couple of pubs that I enjoyed--the Bow Bar , and Sandy Bell's.
            The Bow Bar has plenty of good whisky--and daily specials so you can try out different ones. Sandy Bell's is live music--traditional folk--and is lots of fun, but crowded. I was at Sandy Bell's and word got out that I was from Texas. From then on, the patrons wanted to listen to me talk, and profess their love of Willie Nelson and 'Bobby Willis', which I took to mean Bob Wills.
            Good times.

          3. junkhound | Feb 03, 2009 03:00am | #24

            DW will have a fun time then, she can put out the best southern cream and syrup if she wants, being a buxom blonde southern (IL, <G>) belle and all.

          4. drystone | Feb 03, 2009 08:12pm | #31

            Rose Street lies to the north of Princes Street.  There used to be an event called the Rose Street Run.  The object was to have a half pint or a nip of whisky in each pub without going to the toilet or being sick.  That was not easy in the old days when there were 20plus drinking establishments in the street.

            For the ladies - visit George Street and some of the Georgian bank buildings which have been converted to dining and drinking.

            The ceilings and plasterwork in some of these buildings is wonderful. 

          5. PenobscotMan | Feb 03, 2009 11:37pm | #33

            Cento Tre on George St. is a nice posh restaurant to go for a good Italian meal or a drink.

      2. junkhound | Feb 02, 2009 03:21am | #12

        Thanks for the pub suggestions guys. 

        Taking DW to UK for 2 weeks for her 65th birthday in April, she's enjoyed visiting  pubs in England but has never yet been to Scotland. Will be in EDI for 3 days, Linlithgow for 1, also Aberdeen, Dundee, Oban, and Stirling for one night.

        Lists of good pubs for DW types would be appreciated.  Only went to a couple pubs when I've been there as usually working 14 hour days.  

        1. diamond_dodes | Feb 02, 2009 03:44am | #14

          Good choice of places to visit.
          I grew up in and love Edinburgh. There's tonnes of great pubs and eating and loads of things to do in a small area.
          You'll want to check out Linlithgow Palace, and Stirling Castle.
          Aberdeen is known as "Granite City" and is a historically industrial city. My father works on the Ferry that goes from Aberdeen to the Shetland Islands.
          I used to go to Oban to visit friends. It's beautiful. Oban Whiskey is good. They have one of the oldest distilleries, dating back to 1794.
          Dundee is a great city and home to the RRS Discovery, an old Antarctic exploration vessel.

          1. fingersandtoes | Feb 02, 2009 04:54am | #15

            My earliest memories are of seeing a cow in a sling hoisted onto a ship in Oban harbour. The water was so clear you could see the bottom. It was as though the boats were floating in air.

          2. DavidxDoud | Feb 02, 2009 07:37am | #17

            "My earliest memories are of seeing a cow in a sling hoisted onto a ship in Oban harbour. The water was so clear you could see the bottom. It was as though the boats were floating in air."nice picture - thanks - D"there's enough for everyone"

          3. BigBill | Feb 02, 2009 07:15pm | #18

            Re that floating in air clear water.

          4. MSA1 | Feb 06, 2009 12:44am | #43

            You're just plain mean.:>) 

            Family.....They're always there when they need you.

          5. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Feb 02, 2009 07:19am | #16

            My grandfather was from Dundee.

            Jeff

          6. BryanSayer | Feb 03, 2009 06:21pm | #30

            Oban whiskey is beyond good. It is, hands down, my favorite.

        2. User avater
          JeffBuck | Feb 03, 2009 06:08am | #26

          how are U getting there?

          we once flew into London and took the high speed train to Edinburgh.

          Gotta say ... Scotland knows how to make an entrance!

           

          the scenery is kinda boring ... then U go around a blind corner, see a sign for Scotland, and the tracks must shift cloer to the cliffs ... as you suddenly see the water crashing off the rocks below. Pretty cool.

          Jeff    Buck Construction

           Artistry In Carpentry

               Pittsburgh Pa

          1. junkhound | Feb 04, 2009 01:58am | #34

            how are U getting there?

             

            This time, SEA to LHR, local trains over 3 days thru Cambridge, Nottingham, York, Newcastle, then on to EDI thru Berwick.  More trains thru Scotland and back thru England and LHR.

            Took the train from Manchester to Newcastle last Spring, pretty good scenery there also, but nothing like going thru Glacier Nat. Park on the old Empire builder when run by Great Northern.

            Have taken the chunnel train 4 or 5 times, not much to see there except the prediliction for every overpass in France to have more graffiti than chicago or detroit or philly even. 

        3. PenobscotMan | Feb 03, 2009 11:51am | #28

          Deacon Brodie's on the Royal Mile is a respectable pub for the DW. The Hebrides near Waverley station is a bit rougher, but still nice. The good news is that there is no longer any smoking in Scottish pubs.

          1. junkhound | Feb 04, 2009 02:02am | #35

            no longer any smoking in Scottish pubs

            Stopped in the Star and Garter in Linlithgow 3 years ago for a pint, they had a open grate COAL fire burning, man did that bring back memories.  Some folks still apparently still heat with coal there, could smell it in the air, had not smelled that since a kid in the 40's and early '50s in central IL. 

          2. PenobscotMan | Feb 04, 2009 08:38pm | #36

            Linlithgow, birthplace of Mary Queen of Scots. right? My daughter and son-in-law burn smokeless coal as do many of their neighbors. There is still some smell in the street, not unpleasant. We were on Lewis a few years ago and the smell of peat was in the air. You're right, smells do evoke memories.

  7. diamond_dodes | Feb 02, 2009 01:48am | #9

    I am a Joiner from Scotland (Livingston, just outside Edinburgh) but have lived in Rhode Island for 8 years.

    1. PenobscotMan | Feb 04, 2009 08:42pm | #37

      Tell us about the trade adjustments you had to make in the States. I think going from Metric to Imperial must have been a real pain. Our joiner (framer) just finished up. Required frequent cups of tea while on the job. Insisted on calling me "Sir", which was VERY strange.

      1. diamond_dodes | Feb 05, 2009 02:05am | #38

        Overall I found it easy to adapt to working here. I had never built a house from the ground up until I came here. Before that (back in Scotland) I done cabinet / furniture work, more on the side of woodworking and not construction / building. When I moved here I had a job lined up with a company that had a woodworking shop and built homes. They already had a full time shop guy and I was eager to climb the ladder so I started building homes.As far as going from Metric, we were taught feet and inches in school so it was never a problem. I did have a metric tape when I first started working here though. Everybody I worked with got a good kick out of that and called it my "Commie tape"We use the word "Timber" as opposed to "Lumber"Here in USA what we refer to as 1x and 2x material is much easier to work with than dimensional lumber in metric."Round-wire" nail is a framing nail.
        "Oval-wire and "Lost Head" nails are finish nails.
        Sheetrock = Plasterboard
        Baseboard = "Skirting Board"I prefer the 3 prong plugs in Scotland. They have a built in replaceable fuse, are way more heavy duty and don't pool out with a slight yank.Like you said we rarely if ever use Asphalt or wood shingle type roofs in Scotland. My house was a tile roof. We had an Asphalt roof and Clabbard siding on the garden shed though. Thats the only common use.Our Homedepot was called Homebase.Our Bosch tools were a different colour.I spell Color "Colour"!I could go on forever but you get my point. I found it pretty easy to adapt and everyone around me found it highly amusing.

        1. PenobscotMan | Feb 05, 2009 05:50pm | #39

          One of the consequences of the lack of wood shingles here in Scotland is the lack of convenient tapered shims. I use them all the time in the States, usually to remedy measuring and cutting errors. The joiner who framed in the loft rooms used a hand saw throughout the job, where an American framer would have the skilsaw buzzing all the time. For fear of disturbing the plaster below he "toe-screwed" most of the studs with Spax screws, which must be the best screws in the universe.I'm getting used to metric -- But they are harder to remember as you go from tape to saw. There is something in the rhythm of the numbers 2 ft. 3 1/4 in that is easier to remember that the metric equivalent 691 mm.Commie tape measure! Good one.Cheers.

          1. fingersandtoes | Feb 05, 2009 07:40pm | #40

            For sheer annoyance I think our measuring system here in Canada wins. We have officially converted to metric, so the code is in metric. Your drawings may or may not be metric. Materials, such as dimensional lumber are typically referred to in imperial, as of course are all goods originating in the States. Ask someone where a jobsite is and you will get either "a couple of miles" or "a few cliks" down the road.

          2. PenobscotMan | Feb 11, 2009 11:47am | #44

            Yes, trying to navigate two systems at once is aggravating. In Maine I use Canadian shingles which are metric, 100 cm long. But the directions for exposure, etc, are in imperial. Needless to say, it would have been so much simpler if I had a metric tape measure and everything was in metric. Here in Scotland I haven't been able to get a pure metric tape measure. They come imperial on one edge, metric the other. So when you are trying to think metric you are looking at 16 inch stud spacings, which is absolutely useless information for a local tradesman because sheet goods here are metric.

          3. DavidxDoud | Feb 05, 2009 07:40pm | #41

            tell me more about 'spax' screws - "there's enough for everyone"

          4. JJV | Feb 05, 2009 09:34pm | #42

            Dave-follow this link.  I prefer GRK but these are really good too.

             

            http://www.mcfeelys.com/spax

             

            Most nights are crystal clear, but tonight it's like he's stuck between stations.

            Edited 2/5/2009 1:34 pm ET by JJV

          5. PenobscotMan | Feb 11, 2009 11:51am | #45

            They have serrations on the first few threads so they are really self drilling. Posidrive head. Truly no need to use pilot holes. We have some about as long as an American 10d nail, and a cordless 12 V drill zips them through two 2X4's in a flash

  8. User avater
    Mongo | Feb 02, 2009 10:50pm | #19

    Was in Edinburgh for Fringe last year. Great fun, very welcoming locals.

    Jeff, sad news, went to The Malt Shovel in December it was "closed until further notice". Asked at the hotel, they had no idea how long or why they were closed. Good place though. My first bite of haggis.

    My daughter almost went to U of Edinburgh.

    1. diamond_dodes | Feb 03, 2009 02:09am | #22

      Asked my father.
      Malt Shovel was closed for rennovations and is open again.

    2. User avater
      JeffBuck | Feb 03, 2009 06:05am | #25

      yeah, after I typed that I googled ... I used to have a small website of theirs.

      anyways .... said closed for new owner's renovations.

       

      bet they'll clean it up all nice and ruin it!

      Jeff    Buck Construction

       Artistry In Carpentry

           Pittsburgh Pa

  9. hmj | Feb 03, 2009 03:53pm | #29

    Someone was telling me how residential real estate transactions are done as sealed bids in Scotland... No offer/counter offer like in the US.

    1. PenobscotMan | Feb 03, 2009 11:36pm | #32

      My daughter, longtime resident here. says that is true. Lot's for sale here, but the overall economic mood is pretty gloomy. The guy that brought us a big load of DW and flooring says that due to the economic downturn, no one is doing anything.

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