My friends,
Although I don’t get in here as often as I’d like (running my own website hosting company, bb’s & chats as well as producing huge amounts of sawdust), many of you have given me highly creative solutions in the past, so here’s another…..
Today, with decidedly mixed emotions, I watched while my some 8-year-old Makita 2708 table saw went into spontaneous combustion and melted down. I truly regret I’d left my camera at home, as I would have loved to have shared this shot with all of you…. The flame shooting out of the motor housing, the huge column of smoke. I even had a flashback to some Rolling Stones concert I saw once, like 11 days ago at Fedex Field, but that’s a whole nother story….
Of course, the fact I was using it to resaw 1″ oak planks (maybe 2 months out of the tree) may have something to do with it.
This leaves me with the great question, what next?
I have a full set of Rousseau stand/feed tables (for the 2708), so preferably, new saw should drop in. Rousseau says 3 Deltas, 2 Makitas, 1 Skil will fit.
Although I admire Makita greatly and own a number of their tools (and have loved my 2708 despite it’s drawbacks), I couldn’t believe they’d introduce the new 10″ 2703 with “non-standard mitre slots”, meaning no standard aftermarket tool (like tenoning jigs, etc) could be used (meaning I had to make all my own from scratch). Only real complaint I had against the 2708 other than blade size was the stupid twist knob for elevation, I almost jumped to buy the 2703 upon it’s release until I saw the mitre slots (see my review in Amazon Tools under “Bitey”).
While I am currently housebuilding a very unique custom home, my main line is antique repair and custom furniture, my workshops have been small (generally equiv of 2-car garage), never room enough for a big tablesaw, I’ve learned to make do with the Rousseau tables (like the router table extension) and roller stands to get done what needs doing.
I value accuracy more than portability. I have a sliding compound mitre saw & a radial arm, so crosscutting is not really a factor. I rip plywood with a wall mounted panel saw.
New saw will be used mostly for sizing hardwood stock (have planer & jointer) and making precise joinery cuts, but will occaisionally be called to rip 1+” oak planks and 2×4’s.
Suggestions?
(please take a number, if you haven’t been called in 3 hours, you could always smoke it)
And hey, any talented lady woodworkers in the metro DC area? I’m single. Just thought you should know…..
Edited 10/15/2002 2:32:47 AM ET by LORDBITE
Replies
"And hey, any talented lady woodworkers in the metro DC area? I'm single. Just thought you should know....." We could tell, since you are entering this at 2:30 AM LOL
Amusing tale here - are you as hard on women as you are on tablesaws?
BTW I saw similar colours from my APS sitting under the monitor one day!
Makitas generall hace stronger motors than some of the others. I love the table and fence on my Dewalt but the motor, bearings, and arbor metals are weak.
Read the other threads on the subject and stop in at diverse careers in general discussion.
Excellence is its own reward!
my favorite is the new PC... but if you are limited to what fits your rousseau.. i'd stick with one of the MakitasMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike- Didn't you post a while back recommending a dewalt table saw? So you like the PC better? Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
OK, OK, after two years I admit that my DeWalt portable saw has develpoed some problems. (If you look in the archives I'm sure you'll find my rave review of mine when I first got it, I think the word "perfect" made it in there)
1: the tabs that hold up the saw insert are brittle and will break if anything hits them. To make matters worse they are scored to accomodate the insert right at the base where they need to be strongest, bad design. I've already fixed one of them, and I'm very careful not to break another.
2: when you angle the blade the back of the assembly can get out of alignment. It took me a while to recognize this, I kept thinking that I was mis-aligning the fence on it rack and pinion.
But that is it. If DeWalt fixed these two problems I would neve have anything bad to say about the saw. I love the rack and pinion fence, I don't understand why they don't have it on their large "woodworkers saw" I think the motor is plenty stout, I've ripped a lot of white oak and cherry on it and never had it bog down
With the side and rear extensions attached, it is heavy, even for me. Mainly because you have to carry it directly in from of you. But I really don't see away around this, the body is already plastic, and I think everything that is metal should stay that way. Not carrying four or five blades attached to the side would help.
By the way I think I'm going to get the new Jet wide base for my shop, has anyone bought one already? Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
For what you are doing I suggest that you get a REAL saw.
At least a contractors saw.
Put on wheels and move it in the corner when you are done with it. They are standard equipment for 2 car garages.
I would suggest a cabinet saw, but most of them take 240 and I am guess that you might not always have that readily available. But cabinet saws take up less room at the motor is under them.
But there are a couple of saws out that are new designs that might be perfect for you.
Jet and DeWalt both have these.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/hi/B00006J6PN/ref=hi_br_slwth_2/102-8507062-2216908
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000302Q7/qid=1034695306/br=1-2/ref=br_lf_hi_2//102-8507062-2216908?v=glance&s=hi&n=505126
And both have options of sliding tables.
I'm pretty happy with the Dewalt other than the price and I don't think the stand that comes with it is substantial enough. But it is a good saw and makes accurate cuts. The rack & pinion on the fence and the vac attachment are nice features.
You might have a look at the old woodworking machines web site -- http://www.oldwwmachines.com, or something like that. For what you're doing, a Unisaw or PM-66 upgraded to a two or three *real* horsepower motor might be just the thing. Those guys do a lot of talking about buying and selling stuff, and their bag is fixing up old machines more than using them. So you might get a great rebuilt machine from a guy who wants the money to get another rebuild project. If you can't adapt the Rousseau stuff, you're not married to it, just sell it and get what you really need.
I put a 2 HP Baldor on my grandfather's pre-WWII Unisaw, and trued the top up using a dial indicator on the miter gauge to +/- 0.0005". With a new blade, it makes cuts that look like they came from a router. If you want precision, there's no substitute for massive cast iron and big ball bearings.
-- J.S.
the ladies will think you are more of a man with makita tools, not black&pecker.
listening for the secret.......searching for the sound...
Just a thought,
I was visiting with a couple of master carpenters this evening and the subject of reliable table saws was broached. They seemd to feel that a belt drive saw offered the most reliable service. They felt that they could use smaller motors and were less likely to burn them out with a belt drive. I don't have the experience to argue with them, but I value their opinion.
Mike
I've got an old Delta Cabinet Makers table saw for sale, Great shape brandy new motor. If any one needs? There should be a classified section here.
rich- are you being funny? Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
sell for 2.00 will ship for 3000.00 LOL
I'm in Canada, I'll be right over
sometimes board sometimes knot
I'll keep the beer chilled
If you're not from Canada, I'll bring the beer
I have been using the Ryobi BTS3000 for about 3 years now. I have run everything from 4/4 and 8/4 Oak, Cherry, Mahogany, Hard Maple and Braz. Cherry through it. It comes with a sliding table as standard equipment and while it does not have miter slots, you can get a extra table wing with one. It has a dust collection port on the back of the saw, the blade tilt and evevation wheel is easy to operate, and accuracy has been quite impressive. Hope this helps.TCW Specialists in Custom Remodeling.
We've had beer from Canada :) much better then the stuff we get down here. Can you send a couple kegs of Molson XXX
I didn't know you could get triple X on beer, my XXX nights have involved a woman, and too much wine.
sometimes board sometimes knot
I've owned Powermatic and Unisaw; I've used the "big boy stuff" like Tannewitz and Oliver, and I'm telling ya, the Bosch 4000 is one fine saw. Not as portable as some, but the accuracy is right on, and this after 3 years of extremely heavy abuse. Highly recommended.
This is an idea that I've never heard from anyone but works great for me. I have a very under-powered Shop Smith that seems to bog down with almost any wood. I suspect that any 10" saw made to run off the wall will be under-powered. I almost never need the full cutting depth of a 10" blade so I put in a Dewalt very thin curf 8 1/4" blade which on my saw will cut to a depth of a little under 3". The saw never bogs down and cuts any kind of wood like butter. I only install the 10" blade on the rare occasion where I need that much depth. The smaller blade delivers more torque at the cutting edge and the kerf is thinner than any 10" blade. And they only cost $16 - 24.
I have the 10" Makita in a Rousseau-Like table and love it. Performs great but most importantly-- I CAN MOVE IT! Try carrying the DeWalt or Bosch around Home Depot for two seconds and you'll probably find the time to build that jig you mentioned.
Pete
I have the same set up and like you I think its great. From the overall thread here the one thing no one has talked about as to the cause for the original smoke maybe we needed a new saw blade or to have the old one sharpenned. And so far as the DeWalt saw, I have one that anyone who wants to come to SoCal can have -- pure junk.
Hey, if you just want a dewalt saw hauled off. I'm sure I can oblidge.
I have a BIL in LA that could use a saw. I'm sure he'd be happy to come get it. Actually, I'll probably be down that way over Christmas, if you haven't gotten me a gift yet, I'd love that one.
What exactly is wrong with it that you hate it so?
Everyone I know of loves their dewalt saws.
Your motor burn up. Drop it on your toe? What?
Thanks
Bill
Edited 11/8/2002 2:05:56 PM ET by BILLYG83440
I must be plenty tough because I carry my DeWalt all over the place......thru door's...up stairs.....down basements....no problem. I don't think that damn things weighs more than 60-70 lbs.
Just to make sure yer not just bitching out loud for no reason.....email me your contact info...and I'll have my brother in Mission Viejo drive over immediately and help ya lift the saw into his car!
Thanks for the offer.......he'll appreciate it!
Jeff
email thru this site always works for me.................Al-ways look on......the bright......side of life...........
.......whistle.....whistle.......whistle........
My phone # is 626.447.4944
Just got back to check in......got the number......my brother will be in touch.
Thanks......Later,
Jeff..............Al-ways look on......the bright......side of life...........
.......whistle.....whistle.......whistle........
I second the motion on going for a contractor saw. Unless taking the unit to a jobsite is important.
Typically, the belt drive models run smoother, have less slop in the blade and come packed with better motors.
Many of these saws also cost the same or less than a good portable.
Another thing to consider, make sure you have good power delivery to your shop. Don't use extension cords (or at least get heavy duty ones). Good power is important to the lifespan of your motor.
Personally, I have a Ridgid contractor saw and I like it. It has held up very well for the types of tasks you describe as well as panel cutting. The motor seams real good. However, my experience with the Home Depot people when purchasing this saw was so bad that I would never recommend giving them any further business.
Keep an eye out for a used unit or wait until Ridgid takes away the Depot's exclusivity.
I too just purchased the Ridgid contractor saw from HD. What a run around.
I originally went in to the Thousand Oaks store when they were running a 10% sale tool exchange promotion. I brought them an old palm sander and expected to pick up the saw that evening. Inventory showed 7 in stock. Sales people could only find three and all three were missing the second box of rails. This took 2 1/2 hours.
They convinced me to pay for the saw through Special Orders and when a new shipment came in they would call. One week went by and no call. Inventory now showed 10 saws. Told by the Special Orders desk that they never call for standard stock items just come in and pick it up.
Back to the store to pick up the saw and this is when it gets ridiculous. I arrived just after lunch - I know this because we ate at the Habit which shares the mega parking lot. The first salesman had to go back through all the incomplete boxes of rails even after I insisted that we had been down this path before and I was not interested in a open box with missing or bent rails. Next was the forklift search. This lasted for almost an hour. Roping off isles, maneuvering the fork lift and looking in the smallest of places for large boxes. There was probably 10 minutes of real searching, but any interruption took higher priority then my saw.
Next came the shift change and handoff to another HD salesman. "Sorry but I have to get off the clock - Kevin will help you now." Kevin wanted to start at the beginning. "Lets take a look at the rails... Looks like there are 10 in stock, must be here somewhere..."
At this point I insisted that the searching stop. Kevin suggested that I pick up the main saw here and the rails at a nearby store in Camarillo. He called the Camarillo store and confirmed that they had the saw in stock. Fine. My preference was to pick up a complete saw package in one location. He sent me to Camarillo.
With paperwork in hand the Camarillo store looked at me as if I was from outerspace. Camarillo Special Orders and the Tool Manager insisted that no one called and all agreed that you can't pay for something in one store and pick it up in another. I was had.
At this point it was getting dark outside and I wanted this to end. The roping and forklift drill started again and I paid for and loaded the new saw from the Camarillo store into the truck. After several calls to the Thousand Oaks store manager my only option was to go back to Thousand Oaks to get my money back.
This was the most unpleasant retail experience. 5 hours total. It took less time to buy my house! I can't wait for a Lowes to show up. What this store needs is competition.
Never again!
Dean
i hate HD too! my company once built a home depot--then the rest of a 40 acre strip mall--we found it to be easier and cheaper to buy misc. supplies from from usual sources than to walk 200 ft. to hd..-----it took forever to get out with purchase.--my wife & i bought a shower stall from hd--from the time i told the clerk "i want that one"until i got out the door was 2.5 hrs.---forklift routine, can't find, mislabeled boxes, scanner read wrong price,etc.---never again!!!!!
Not that it should diminish your pain, but you definitely had a better customer service experience than I did.
When I noted parts missing, I was told things like 'come back sometime on Tuesday, the Ridgid rep is supposed to drop by'. Apparently I had Tuesday to kill f*ing around their store.
It's night time and I want to unwind, so I won't go into the details of the 8 weeks it took them to finally come through with my parts, including the power switch and manual. I would consider those pretty necessary to safe or any operation of the saw.
If I had had the time on my hands I would have hauled the unit back and placed it in an very special anatomic position for the store manager. Instead I was the fool that waited and gave them my money. Its too bad those idiots get to profit from what is essentially a good product.
By the way the missing parts were not the factory's fault. The unit had been opened at the store.
For the same reasons, I absolutely refuse to buy ANYTHING with an open carton, especially from the big boxes!
Ken Hill
The Rigid might be a fine product, but the whole Depot aspect of it eliminates it from my consideration. I find the Depot fine for certain things...like garbage cans, etc, but NOT the place to buy straight lumber or expensive one time buy tools.
I ended up with the Bosch "table" saw with the collapsing support. I really like it, although the blade that came with it is certainly no top of the line effort!. A very shrewd and elegant design. I really like the quality and flexibility, the table is very flat and properly sized. The extending table/fence is a great touch that takes a second to get used to, but gives the saw great capacity while keeping it compact. And with the extensions left and outfeed, it is pretty capable. I do wish the table was deeper in front of the blade, but I guess thats what the contracters and cabinet saws are for! I have a Delta at home, and it is on wheels, but moving it job to job is just too much.
Portability is fine, and I've had great luck with Bosch products in the past. I looked at the Dewalt, but I prefered the Bosch. I've had too many friends have issues with Dewalt stuff, which is probably an anomilie, but my Bosch experience closed the deal. So far, so good.
I've been following the discussions of small table saws and was starting to settle on one of two models (Bosch and PorterCable). Then I happened past Sears yesterday and went in to look around. There's a new Sears Professional Portable Table Saw that looks very good. It comes with a rolling stand, has more metal parts than some of the other recommended saws, is easy to set up, comes with a dado table insert, and seems to be well made. The saw also has a built-in outfeed support and then fence moves out to 24 inches.
Has anyone had experience with this model? Thanks.
Since Mike Smith recommended the Porter Cable saw and we have had good luck with most of our PC tools, I started looking into it, and then we bought it.
Here's the point of my post: Right now Rockler will include the Porter Cable stand for free if you buy the Porter Cable saw. That's a great deal and it will keep you out of home depot....always a good thing. We just bought it and haven't fired it up yet, but we should this weekend.
I agree, never ever buy anything that has been opened at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.
I am with Tim Thomson on this one.I have been using the Ryobi for two years now and it is just great.It breaks down for easy portability and is the most accurate portable I have ever used.Plenty of power,plenty of capacity,good dust collection and some really handy accessories.Maybe you can find someone in your area that has one you can try out.Good luck!
The early Ryobi's had a lot of motors burning up with regular use. I wonder if they redesigned them?
Another criticisam was that the whole unit got out of whack too easy if a ny other than a one man outfit was using it.
Not speaking from personal experience. I ended up with the Dewalt, which is sufficient but doesn't make me proud enough to buy another. I do wonder tho' what the comment from someone about the Dewalt being hard to carry was all about. I have a bad back and can haul it in and out of my truck daily without complaining..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
Sorry, been busy finishing a house I'll be writing up for FH.
End deal was I bought a Makita 2703 10" from Home Despot for $299.
I had previously emailed Rousseau to ask if my stand for the 2708 would hold the 2703, they replied (I have the email) that it would. Unfortunately, they told me an untruth, it wouldn't work.
Having been a US Marine (66/67), I knew how to improvise, so I cut 1-3/4" off the front of the fiberglass table of the 2703, modified the left-side Rousseau holding cogs, aligned it to the Rousseau fence, and voila, I had a fine new cutting setup.
There was no way I was going to buy a whole new stand....
Some thoughts I'd like to share:
1) I'm still pissed that Makita insists on using a slightly less then industry standard miter-gauge slot, prohibiting me from using any aftermarket jigs. I've written them several times but never received a response. As they make no accessories other then the included miter gauge, I have no idea why they do this.
2) Realizing I now had two identical miter gauges, I took the first one, removed the adjustable head and drilled a series of holes in the sliding bar and tapped them for a specific bolt size, allowing me to add featherboards to hold work against the fence. As the Rousseau frame is lower than both the saw table & the outfeed table, a small block of wood serves to keep the sliding bar in place.
3) And that's another thing, when I bought the origional Rousseau stand, I also bought the router extension table and It's fence. Again, unfortunately, the router fence had this weird bevel on it that made it impossible to lock into place. The only solution I could come up with was to countersink a pair level holes to hold the lock-down bolts and keep it from creeping.
I dunno, I'd think that some of these tool companies would apply a little logic from time to time or at least ask the people that actually use the tools what they think....
I feel that it's the person behind the saw, more than what type of saw is what matters. All "portable" saws are less exact than cabinet makers wish for, but since I travel a lot for my work, I need them. I must say that I have built many high end cabinets and built-ins on site with my 10" DeWalt. It has never failed me, and when it does finally wear out, I will buy a new one just like it.
If I am doing a whole house of bookshelves and cabinets, I will stay in the shop on the big boys for a week cutting out parts. But there is something really satisfying in making a $20,000.00 installation using nothing more than a router and a $500.00 portable saw.
PS to LORDBITE:
What's with that looser come-on to "lady" carpenters. I am in DC too, and know that women outnumber men two to one around here. You should be going after women who actually make money anyway. That way she can support your carpenter "habit".
I presume you meant loser and not looser, but it was just a friendly note, not a come-on.
As for my habit, it brings in about $80k a year and I'm not even working full time.....
For the record, the US Census puts the female population of DC as 53%....
Thanks for the Census update. And congrats on your $80K.
Funny how your comment was just a joke, and mine ,somehow
not. (By the way, check the stats on single, hetero women - you may be pleasantly surprised!)